Currently on Sojourn, very large group on board

[Grumpy Wombat]

How is a group that according to you effectively took over the whole ship including lounges/bars for private functions NOT disruptive?

 

Erm, that's exactly my point?

[secoma4]

This is an issue SB needs to deal with as it effects the product they are delivering compared with what was offered (and paid for) by others. (A bit like their current misleading advert referred to in another thread). Even with smaller groups of about 15 it causes issues. Our experience has been that the "groups" do not mix with others, seek to take over preferred seating areas in dining areas (eg permanently "reserving" certain tables) and generally changed the ambience.

 

The presence of a group associated with an incentive arrangement means that they do not have any affinity for the product or care about others. SB has an obligation to advise others already booked that such parties will be onboard and give their loyal "normal" customers the option to cancel/change if it is SB's intention to go ahead with a group booking.

 

It is not unusual for SB to charter the entire vessel to such groups, and that is their prerogative, although I understand it represents a pretty tough assignment for the crew on such occasions.

[markham]

This sounds ghastly. I mean, it's bad enough when you have a paying passenger group from the same country on board that is large enough to think that they "own" the ship and set their own standards.

 

I remember that group of 20 that liked to sing at dinners in the MDR. I remember that group that liked to push at the caviar in the surf party to get to the goods. I remember trying to listen to the English language guide from the Bridge narrating our passage through the Chilean fjords while we were in the Observation Bar and a group from a small Euro country yapping out loud, completely oblivious, so no one could hear. That group included as well a Seabourn purser who added insult to injury. Not that any of them, officer included, cared.

 

And then there are these "incentive" groups...

 

The worst experience which I (sadly) remember was a group of 100 white goods incentive men from the subcontinent on a Cunard cruise, the lovely Caronia, which had about 600 passengers. These men felt up the stewardesses, piled trays of food in their cabins (I guess they like to eat in groups) and demanded the stewardesses clean up after them, threw rubbish anywhere and everywhere, liked to congregate noisily (for what reason I will never know) around the lifts all the time.

 

I wrote a letter of complaint and Cunard's answer was that people need to get along and at all costs avoid judgmental attitudes. I wrote back challenging that PC tone to what was a letter of complaint about Cunard putting not only passengers at a disadvantage but their own staff at risk. That did the trick... By the time I received a response the ship's own report had been received at head office. And an apology of sorts was received with a "We will take better care of you" pledge next time I cruise with them. Ha!

 

So at the end of the day I believe you have to speak up- on board, to head office and on CC. The cruise lines need to know what their package sales really cost them.

 

Happy sailing!

[CoSec]

I am currently on the Sojourn and we have a large group of around 120 - 140 (actual number has been difficult to determine), on board. I won't advise the company involved, but all the group are here as part of a reward scheme for sales of a particular product, and are travelling for free. It has caused major distress to the rest of the guests and the first two days of the cruise were absolutely horrendous. Bad language, drunken behaviour, people "bombing" into the pool etc. To the absolute credit of the crew, steps were taken to control the worst of the behaviour and they have been reasonably effective, but I am sad to say that the atmosphere on board is just not the Seabourn I love.

Am joining Sojourn at Barcelona on Monday. Any idea if the Group is staying on for the next leg?

[Flamin_June]

If one reads the text in the latest Seabourn brochure, on pages 5 and 15, where fellow passengers and on-board ambience are described, then it is clear that as far as your experience is concerned Seabourn is guilty of misrepresentation. This is neither the product you thought you were buying, nor the product Seabourn claimed it to be.

 

You should contact the Hotel Director and tell him or her that you wish to make a complaint directly to Head Office.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Flamin_June

[cruising kirby]

Thanks to everyone for the supportive comments and advice.

 

There has been substantial feedback provided from a large number of guests to senior staff on board and we understand that information has been given to "head office". Whether that changes anything for this cruise or future cruises remains to be seen. I suspect the damage has been done now for guests on this cruise and so many first timers have indicated that they won't choose Seabourn again. Other repeat guests are equally disheartened. Such a shame that the potential ramifications of accepting a large group of "non paying guests" wasn't thought through when the booking was accepted.

 

I believe the group is disembarking in Barcelona.

[CoSec]

Thanks to everyone for the supportive comments and advice.

 

There has been substantial feedback provided from a large number of guests to senior staff on board and we understand that information has been given to "head office". Whether that changes anything for this cruise or future cruises remains to be seen. I suspect the damage has been done now for guests on this cruise and so many first timers have indicated that they won't choose Seabourn again. Other repeat guests are equally disheartened. Such a shame that the potential ramifications of accepting a large group of "non paying guests" wasn't thought through when the booking was accepted.

 

I believe the group is disembarking in Barcelona.

Terrible for all of you. I hadn't even considered this risk with the likes of Seabourn. They have shot themselves in the foot. I hope you all get some form of serious recompense. And needless to say, I am crossing everything that you are right about disembarkation in Barcelona and that another group doesn't join! Note to self: make plain in any future booking with TA that I am making it on the basis there are and will be no group bookings ( yet to be defined) so at least could pull out or get money back. Flamin June is on to the right track with the misrepresentation claim. Perhaps you and fellow guests should form an action group to get compensation. Once again, so sorry for you.

[Host Dan]

I just spoke with my TA regarding my up coming cruise. SB would not disclose if they had a large group booked. Too late anyway, final payment has been made.

[lincslady]

cruising kirby - I hope you will get back to CC to say what, if anything, happens either on board or when you are back home about this situation. The more I think about it the crosser I get. It is one thing to charter a whole ship - and staff we have spoken to generally dislike these charters as they make their lives more difficult - but to allow about a third of passengers to be a group of, especially, 'freeloaders' who more often than not behave badly is almost beyond belief.

 

No recompense can put right the lack of enjoyment of a cruise everyone would be looking forward to.

[Grumpy Wombat]

It's well known within the cruise industry generally that these large groups can be extremely problematic yet the cruise lines continue to allow it knowing full well what can and does happen. Yes, it's a healthy chunk of income (and it's all about the bottom line) but the potential loss of future business from people, including loyal regulars, whose experience can be more or less ruined by this bad behaviour and the toxic atmosphere it creates should certainly make head office think twice?

 

The fact they are so coy about revealing whether a group is booked confirms to me that they know perfectly well what a negative impact group bookings can have. We poor suckers who've paid handsomely for our cruise just have to take the risk. I dread to think what the long suffering crew has to endure when these louts take over.

[cwisleman]

I think you should give us name of company and we can then make comments about company on social media. I suspect this is not what they would consider appropriate behavior of their employees and should know about it as it does not reflect well upon the company.

Edited August 8, 2014 by cwisleman

[Emperor Norton]

i think you should give us name of company and we can then make comments about company on social media. I suspect this is not what they would consider appropriate behavior of their employees and should know about it as it does not reflect well upon the company.

 

+1!

[PhillyGirl2]

After reading all of the comments about SB and allowing large groups which end up spoiling the experience for others, I am really disappointed in the cruise line that I deemed "the best." I will certainly reconsider booking in the future unless I hear that some statement by the company has been made regarding these large group bookings. What is surprising is why companies of large groups pick Seabourn, when there are so many other lines that are cheaper and offer more of the activities that these groups tend to favor. I recall sailing on Holland America, in my early cruising years and being pushed and shoved aside when trying to board the tenders to take us back to ship. When we complained to ship's personnel, we were told that we must be patient because these people (from Mexico) had not yet developed "cruise etiquette" because cruising was a new experiece for them. My thoughts were that everyone at one time is new to cruising but that does not give them the right to be rude. Fortunately, my first cruise on SB in the Caribbean was superb and the most recent was also fine, in fact my comments were that Seabourn attracts a certain class of people--mannered and polite and obviously well travelled. Even the few children on board were well behaved and not intrusive. There was even two babies, whom you never heard cry. I am now rethinking any future cruises with SB and it makes me sad.

[Grumpy Wombat]

ALL cruise lines have group bookings from time to time so if that's a deal breaker you may as well give up cruising. The problem for me isn't so much that it happens, it's the cruise lines' (again, all of them) reluctance to disclose the information to other customers. They know full well that it could lead to cancellations. Nine times out of ten there won't be any groups and/or problems so we are prepared to take the risk. But on the odd occasion where there IS such a situation it can totally ruin the whole experience.

 

I agree that Seabourn wouldn't be my first choice if I was organising a group booking because other lines have more to offer such groups who are basically there to party 24/7. I guess itinerary, timing and availability (and price!) are factors in choosing one line over another and who knows what inducements are offered to groups behind the scenes. Or am I too cynical?

[Jim Avery]

ALL cruise lines have group bookings from time to time so if that's a deal breaker you may as well give up cruising. The problem for me isn't so much that it happens, it's the cruise lines' (again, all of them) reluctance to disclose the information to other customers. They know full well that it could lead to cancellations. Nine times out of ten there won't be any groups and/or problems so we are prepared to take the risk. But on the odd occasion where there IS such a situation it can totally ruin the whole experience.

 

I agree that Seabourn wouldn't be my first choice if I was organising a group booking because other lines have more to offer such groups who are basically there to party 24/7. I guess itinerary, timing and availability (and price!) are factors in choosing one line over another and who knows what inducements are offered to groups behind the scenes. Or am I too cynical?

 

No, you are not too cynical. SeaDream does this and advertises it on their website. That large group got a hefty discount you didn't.:eek: I have had the "pleasure" of this aggravating experience as well. Even if they tell you, after final payment you will have to suffer a hefty "fine" for choosing not to sail with the group de jour. SeaDream starts cancellation penalties at 120 days out.:eek:

[Sunviking]

Many years ago we had friends who sailed on a Carnival Cruise and wound up being in the minority relative to a large Greek sorority group. As I recall there were less than 50 passengers on board who were not part of the mega group. Our friends said that most nights all venues were occupied by the group and no effort was made to include anyone else. This was their first cruise and they've been on none since, since they didn't want a repeat performance. I would be quite upset were I not advised of a large group on a ship with so few passengers as on a Seabourn ship.

[Emperor Norton]

We could follow the traditional American approach to such a problem - legislate it!

 

/sometimes hyperlexis isn't such a bad thing

[Capri73]

I agree with everyone but it does not take a large group to ruin a cruise. We were on the Legend last year.4 couples who were from Russia boarded the ship. Please I am not against Russians. I am just telling the story. They managed to alienate everyone. Loud, took over pool chairs, rude to the people working on the ship and the rest of us. They actually block the doors by the pool with their chairs so one could pass them.

The Legend is a small ship and the pool area is quite small so staying away from these people was a challenge.

[markham]

I know, it's hard to steer clear of louts when they are in the way.

 

I thank my lucky stars I was born in the West. Those types of people have lots of attitudinal baggage and possibly feel that they don't fit in. Hence the aggressive behavior and defensiveness.

 

So I view the problem as theirs and not mine. And obviously there is little Seabourn can do with badly behaving children and others.

 

Happy sailing!

[DUHCAR]

I agree with everyone but it does not take a large group to ruin a cruise. We were on the Legend last year.4 couples who were from Russia boarded the ship. Please I am not against Russians. I am just telling the story. They managed to alienate everyone. Loud, took over pool chairs, rude to the people working on the ship and the rest of us. They actually block the doors by the pool with their chairs so one could pass them.

The Legend is a small ship and the pool area is quite small so staying away from these people was a challenge.

 

They act like this all over the world. I try to avoid places that that have hotels that cater to them. Thankfully language is usually a barrier for them

[socalguy2010]

As a small counter-example to the boorish behavior of groups who take over cruises,I was on an Amazon cruise in March on Aqua's M/V Aria. It's a ship with only 32 passengers total. There was a group of 10-12 Japanese on board with their own guide. They spoke little or no English (other than the guide) and pretty much kept to themselves. But, being such a large % of the passengers, they tended to take up a corresponding block of tables and chairs at meals, lectures, etc. However, if they saw that another passenger outside their group wanted a better seat or a table to sit with others, the Japanese voluntarily gave up their seats/tables, places in serving lines, etc. They were very quiet and caused no disturbances or disruptions. At the end of the cruise, they even made small, colorful origami swans for all the non-Japanese passengers. I think it demonstrates, along with other comments in this thread, that it's not so much the size of a group as their boorish behavior (or, in the case of this Japanese group, lack of boorish behavior) which is a problem.

[Les Picantins]

Here's are scary thought ... Do you think that, with the sale of the smaller ships, that we might be exposed to more frequent large groups on the Odyssey class ships? Groups that were large enough to charter the little sisters in the past but will no longer have that option.

[lincslady]

Unfortunately there seems to be some correlation between nationality and manners. The Japanese seem to be very polite and considerate,sadly Russian people much less so. A small group of Russians on a recent cruise of ours were rude, drunken and in fact some of them were thrown off the ship before the end of the cruise.

 

Obviously it is politically incorrect to say so, but sadly it tends to be the case at present. I have a positive feeling that the manners of others on board will rub off in time.

[wripro]

Here's a thought for Seabourn. If you insist on booking large groups make sure you have enough people in one or more groups to charter the ship for a specific cruise. That way the groups can have their cruises and the rest of us can be left in peace.

[Emperor Norton]

Here's a thought for Seabourn. If you insist on booking large groups make sure you have enough people in one or more groups to charter the ship for a specific cruise. That way the groups can have their cruises and the rest of us can be left in peace.

 

Not a bad idea. If your group is going to occupy X or more % of the vessel you need to either charter it on your own or join a few smaller groups. Of course that could lead to some interesting combinations.