Norweigan reported to be buying Prestige

[StanandJim]

..and the boys at Norwegian are pretty smart. :cool:

 

I'm not so sure that is the conventional wisdom circa 2014, Computerworks.

Even our own Cruise Critic, which is not known to be particularly censorious had this to say:

 

Contractual disputes between the line and the shipyard resulted in the cancellation of the second Epic-class new-build, as well as some heavy fines for NCL to pay (€100 million for the cancellation; €55 million for design changes).

 

The first artist's renderings, released in early 2009, were met with ruthless mockery aimed at the ship's boxy design, and Cruise Critic readers compared the top-heavy Epic to a hat, poodle, Donald Trump's hair and an angry old man with bushy eyebrows.

 

A trio of suspicious fires broke out on the under-construction ship in May and June, and the yard, STX Europe in St. Nazaire, France, suspected arson.

 

Read the article in its' entirety, here: http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=3947

[MVPinBoynton]

We have never been NCL fans. But if NCL wants to maintain or grow the value of their investment, they can't make many changes that will be obvious to Regent's/Oceania's discriminating customers. Otherwise they will have wasted a lot of money. I am not thrilled with NCL owning it; but will wait to see if the product changes before complaining and/or cancelling cruises. Being a retired CFO, I understand and appreciate increasing bottom line; but us accountants also understand that some changes will make the bottom line go away.

[dorisis]

I think I will withhold judgement until it becomes a fact. Our next O cruise is next April.

[njhorseman]

I'm not so sure that is the conventional wisdom circa 2014, Computerworks.

Even our own Cruise Critic, which is not known to be particularly censorious had this to say:

 

Contractual disputes between the line and the shipyard resulted in the cancellation of the second Epic-class new-build, as well as some heavy fines for NCL to pay (€100 million for the cancellation; €55 million for design changes).

 

The first artist's renderings, released in early 2009, were met with ruthless mockery aimed at the ship's boxy design, and Cruise Critic readers compared the top-heavy Epic to a hat, poodle, Donald Trump's hair and an angry old man with bushy eyebrows.

 

A trio of suspicious fires broke out on the under-construction ship in May and June, and the yard, STX Europe in St. Nazaire, France, suspected arson.

 

Read the article in its' entirety, here: http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=3947

 

The Epic-class ships were ordered by the prior management of NCL, not Apollo. It was Apollo that wisely cancelled the additional ships. Even though they had to pay a penalty, the result over the long run was an significant improvement in NCL's finances. Under Apollo's management, NCL turned from near-bankruptcy to a profitable cruise line. NCL, under Apollo's management, no longer uses that shipyard, instead they've returned their business to the far more respected Meyer Werft shipyards.

 

So I'd sat the current people in charge at NCL are a pretty smart bunch.

[njhorseman]

As an NCL regular I find Oceania is a very good fit for those of us who are NCL suite guests and want to cruise on smaller ships rather than the behemoths now being built by NCL.

 

And for those of you who turn your noses up at NCL...you might want to try their Haven suite product. It's a ship within a ship and a much different experience than the standard NCL product. The only issue is that you can't totally escape the fact that you're on a larger, more crowded ship.

Edited September 1, 2014 by njhorseman

[Hambagahle]

I look back a bit to when Regent bought Radisson from the Carlsons... cries of woe and horror and impending doom went up on CC. But - Mark Conroy stayed on, and the "product" actually improved, IMO!

 

And then Apollo and PCH bought Regent ships from Regent. cries of woe and horror and more impending doom also went up on the Regent CC boards. But - FDR has, again IMO, improved Regent as well.

 

So - I think that IF the sale goes through changes will be minimal (why buy a silk purse and turn it into a sow's ear??) and there may well be benefits/improvements. I would like to know that FDR and Kunai Kamlani stay on board and in control though...

[orchestrapal]

As an NCL regular I find Oceania is a very good fit for those of us who are NCL suite guests and want to cruise on smaller ships rather than the behemoths now being built by NCL.

 

And for those of you who turn your noses up at NCL...you might want to try their Haven suite product. It's a ship within a ship and a much different experience than the standard NCL product. The only issue is that you acn't totally escape the fact that you're on a larger, more crowded ship.

 

Yes, the LARGE ugly ship product and it's many children and the really bad food make NCL a no no for us. Did try their owner suites twice and never again.

[kiawahdon]

It would be nice if FDR were to post something when he was free to do so.

 

I would not expect FRD or any other shareholders of Prestige to say anything if a deal is in negotiations. Federal/SEC laws tend to put a sock in everyone's mouth until it is officially announced.

[hypercafe]

Just ask the long time loyal cruisers of Princess, HAL and Cunard how they feel about being part of Carnival.

 

As for HAL and Cunard they were going out of business when Carnival bought them. Cunard loyal cruises should kiss Carnival because it made their beloved QM possible. I also do not think the Carnival lines fit together. They bought Princess so RCI could not. NCL would be a feeder for the other two lines as people want to upgrade their cruise experience. Maybe Oceania and Regent would be a better experience if the elitists found a different line.

 

 

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[Hawaiidan]

But think of the advantages .....you will be able to wear jeans & flip flops to the dining rooms :D

 

 

It will be a deal breaker for us if NCL buys them

 

Maybe you could get your hair corn-rowed, A tattoo parlor, with piercings and a giant sports bar ...

 

If NCL is anything it is the lowest common demoniator in the industry...Carnival in comparison is like Crystal

[computerworks]

I'm not so sure that is the conventional wisdom circa 2014, Computerworks.

 

Your citation is the 'conventional wisdom' of 2010. Lot of water under the bridge since then.

 

Ironically it was Apollo who turned the Epic into a blivet of a design.

 

A new CEO at Norwegian in 2008 took about 10 minutes to decide the Epic was a gaff and killed the remaining orders, despite the penalties. That stuff is 4 year old news.

 

Today, two new large ships of a different design are successfully sailing, with two more in the works.

 

As mentioned above the suite experience on Norwegian has no comparison in the mass market arena. They have the formula and it works. That being done, I am sure they see the profitability of an upscale line to attract their current upscale customers.. who are bit less pretentious than some. :cool: The core mass market demographic won't give Oceania or Regent a second glance.

 

As I said, they would be smart not to tamper with the Prestige model, but they sure would be able to teach them a thing or two about systems, infrastructure and technology. Has RCL mismanaged Azamara?

[BenMurphy]

"cruised" once with Norwegian...............................NEVER EVER again.

 

 

Keep your corporate paws off Oceania :(

[Paulchili]

As for HAL and Cunard they were going out of business when Carnival bought them. Cunard loyal cruises should kiss Carnival because it made their beloved QM possible. I also do not think the Carnival lines fit together. They bought Princess so RCI could not. NCL would be a feeder for the other two lines as people want to upgrade their cruise experience. Maybe Oceania and Regent would be a better experience if the elitists found a different line.

 

 

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I've only cruised Cunard once (that was enough for me - they could have gone out of business as far as I was concerned) and HAL a few times (no plans to return either).

But I know Princess pretty well (Elite) and I can tell you that as far as I am concerned they did not benefit from Carnival ownership and that the quality of the product has definitely declined since being acquired by Carnival.

We don't know what, if anything, will change on O if acquired by NCL but I sure hope very little will change because O for me is as close to perfect as it can be.

[cathi]

Having sailed with NCL early on when we first started cruising, I hope this doesn't go ahead. Love O's commitment to a quality experience with a reasonable price point.

[kiawahdon]

Article today from Seatrade Insider:

 

http://www.seatrade-insider.com/news/news-headlines/norwegian-in-advanced-talks-to-buy-prestige-reuters-says.html

[hondorner]

On further thought, again assuming the combined companies retained their individual management teams and policies, I can see several advantages in terms of economy of scale.

For example, all cruise lines are facing the need to meet stringent pollution guidelines, including such things as retofitting scrubbers. Carnival has the deep pockets for such changes; I would think it would be difficult for Prestige. Royal Caribbean has the deep pockets to experiment with a new, super-high-speed internet system on Quantum; the combined company may be able to match or better that.

Then, there's the influence of Apollo, which has been wise enough to maintain a largely "hands off" style with Prestige. They still have a 20% stake in NCL, and are reported to intend to keep a percentage of Prestige if this deal goes forward.

In my opinion, reports of horrible food on NCL are subjective (as are all food opinions). Aboard NCL Star for 24 days last Fall, in a fabulous Family Suite with butler, concierge and service that matched Oceania, the food was not of the same quality as Oceania and not as inventive, but was good solid meat and potato fare, well prepared and served ala minute in freestyle dining like Oceania. In some ways, on a daily basis, that suited me better. Oceania food can occasionally be a bit too inventive for everday fare.

We did sail a North Atlantic itinerary when school was in session, so there were few kids or families. In fact, our fellow passengers were just like Oceania for the most part, although there were more of them -about 2100, not a prohibitive number like the new mega ships.

For the price we paid, they exceeded our expectations.

[Paulchili]

[quote name='computerworks']Has RCL mismanaged Azamara?[/QUOTE]

Maybe you can look at this and make your own conclusions :):
[url]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=43959022#post43959022[/url]
Perhaps mismanaged would be too harsh a term but it does not seem like a step forward (or improvement) according to A loyalists Edited September 1, 2014 by Paulchili

[MVPinBoynton]

[quote name='Paulchili']Maybe you can look at this and make your own conclusions :):
[URL]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=43959022#post43959022[/URL]
Perhaps mismanaged would be too harsh a term but it does not seem like a step forward (or improvement) according to A loyalists[/quote]

Thanks for the link. That is a terrible move they are making. Quite surprised they would do it.

[computerworks]

[quote name='Paulchili']Maybe you can look at this and make your own conclusions :):
[url]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=43959022#post43959022[/url][/QUOTE]

Sorry, that's a bit of a laugher. ;)

Affluent cruisers up in arms over paying for laundry. ...gimme a break. :cool:

Change, on any level, is inevitable.

Oh...and look at the discussion here with unhappy people over the current Oceania's Loyalty program. These poor companies can't please everyone.

[MVPinBoynton]

[quote name='computerworks']Sorry, that's a bit of a laugher. ;)

Affluent cruisers up in arms over paying for laundry. ...gimme a break. :cool:

Change, on any level, is inevitable.

Oh...and look at the discussion here with unhappy people over the current Oceania's Loyalty program. These poor companies can't please everyone.[/quote]

It is probably the same uproar that we would have on this O board if O started charging for all of the specialty restaurants. :D The internet and laundry benefit, especially on long cruises with Azamara is quite nice; or at least it was.

[computerworks]

Honestly, I am surprised at the Internet part. The broad industry move is to better, faster and cheaper Internet service. The cost to the cruise lines is dropping dramatically as newer tech comes onboard. It should be a loyalty perk.

As the newer equipment rolls out.. it is easier and cheaper to provide good service.

Just as an FYI, Norwegian has just implemented a new system on the newer ships... that no longer charges by the minute. Instead, you are charged for how much data you actually transfer. No more paying for time ticking away on a slow connection... you are billed for data transfer, no matter how long it takes.

You buy 'packages' of megabytes, not minutes. I saved a ton of money on my recent cruise with this new system...and speeds were very acceptable. Plus, the package was usable over all your devices... my PC, my phone, my tablet...plus any other folks in your cabin could share the plan.

That is progress.

Of course it doesn't hold a candle to Oceania YWYW free unlimited Internet cruises... my secret love. :p

[pacheco18]

[quote name='computerworks']Your citation is the 'conventional wisdom' of 2010. Lot of water under the bridge since then.



Ironically it was Apollo who turned the Epic into a blivet of a design.



A new CEO at Norwegian in 2008 took about 10 minutes to decide the Epic was a gaff and killed the remaining orders, despite the penalties. That stuff is 4 year old news.



Today, two new large ships of a different design are successfully sailing, with two more in the works.



As mentioned above the suite experience on Norwegian has no comparison in the mass market arena. They have the formula and it works. That being done, I am sure they see the profitability of an upscale line to attract their current upscale customers.. who are bit less pretentious than some. :cool: The core mass market demographic won't give Oceania or Regent a second glance.



As I said, they would be smart not to tamper with the Prestige model, but they sure would be able to teach them a thing or two about systems, infrastructure and technology. Has RCL mismanaged Azamara?[/QUOTE]

Rccl had indeed mismanaged Azamara. It's a disaster







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[Mura]

[quote name='hondorner']On further thought, again assuming the combined companies retained their individual management teams and policies, I can see several advantages in terms of economy of scale.

For example, all cruise lines are facing the need to meet stringent pollution guidelines, including such things as retofitting scrubbers. Carnival has the deep pockets for such changes; I would think it would be difficult for Prestige. Royal Caribbean has the deep pockets to experiment with a new, super-high-speed internet system on Quantum; the combined company may be able to match or better that.

Then, there's the influence of Apollo, which has been wise enough to maintain a largely "hands off" style with Prestige. They still have a 20% stake in NCL, and are reported to intend to keep a percentage of Prestige if this deal goes forward.

In my opinion, reports of horrible food on NCL are subjective (as are all food opinions). Aboard NCL Star for 24 days last Fall, in a fabulous Family Suite with butler, concierge and service that matched Oceania, the food was not of the same quality as Oceania and not as inventive, but was good solid meat and potato fare, well prepared and served ala minute in freestyle dining like Oceania. In some ways, on a daily basis, that suited me better. Oceania food can occasionally be a bit too inventive for everday fare.

We did sail a North Atlantic itinerary when school was in session, so there were few kids or families. In fact, our fellow passengers were just like Oceania for the most part, although there were more of them -about 2100, not a prohibitive number like the new mega ships.

For the price we paid, they exceeded our expectations.[/QUOTE]

Our experience on GEM (NYC-Venice) in April 2010 was similar to Don's. We had a Family Penthouse (2 bedroom, 2 bath with a miniature veranda we didn't use, and the second bed/bath were small, obviously for children). We were considered to be in a suite so we got the usual extra perks - breakfast and lunch in the Grill restaurant, a concierge to make any and all reservations we needed, etc. The room was very comfortable and service was good. Food wasn't fabulous but it was not horrible at all. We did have a lot of children on board that cruise but rarely saw them because of NCL's childrens' program.

For a 400 sf suite we paid less than we would have paid on an Oceania TA in an inside cabin. Yes, there was a lot of nickel and diming, touting Bingo and lottery tickets, etc., but these were ignorable. Would we go again? For the right itinerary, sure. Vastly prefer Oceania but that isn't the question.

(Internet was faster and cheaper than O's ... for what that's worth.)

By the way, we found the regular buffet to be quite good. They had many cuisines available (Chinese, Indian, fresh pasta, etc.) and tons of choices.

Mura

[DavidTheWonderer]

[quote name='Hambagahle']I look back a bit to when Regent bought Radisson from the Carlsons... cries of woe and horror and impending doom went up on CC. But - Mark Conroy stayed on, and the "product" actually improved, IMO!

And then Apollo and PCH bought Regent ships from Regent. cries of woe and horror and more impending doom also went up on the Regent CC boards. But - FDR has, again IMO, improved Regent as well.

So - I think that IF the sale goes through changes will be minimal (why buy a silk purse and turn it into a sow's ear??) and there may well be benefits/improvements. I would like to know that FDR and Kunai Kamlani stay on board and in control though...[/quote]

A perhaps interesting sociological note about Cruise Critic readers on this board and on the Regent board, which is also discussing this possibility a lot, comes from comparing the two threads on the different boards.

Here the overwhelming majority of the posts are negative. Hambagahle's is one of the minority opinions. Over on the Regent board folks are much less negative. Both threads have small samples, but ... Edited September 1, 2014 by DavidTheWonderer

[ChatKat in Ca.]

[quote name='Hambagahle']I look back a bit to when Regent bought Radisson from the Carlsons... cries of woe and horror and impending doom went up on CC. But - Mark Conroy stayed on, and the "product" actually improved, IMO!

And then Apollo and PCH bought Regent ships from Regent. cries of woe and horror and more impending doom also went up on the Regent CC boards. But - FDR has, again IMO, improved Regent as well.

So - I think that IF the sale goes through changes will be minimal (why buy a silk purse and turn it into a sow's ear??) and there may well be benefits/improvements. I would like to know that FDR and Kunai Kamlani stay on board and in control though...[/quote]

Carlson still owned the Regent line and only changed the name. The Radisson hotel name was not equated with luxury. They also owned several hotels under the Regent brand. The only sale of the ships was to Prestige Cruise Holdings.