Ebola Virus

[JEDIKNIGHT]

Truth is this disease can't be kept out of the country either, unless you ban ALL travel from ALL countries -- and that won't happen.

 

What caused the spread of this situation in this country was poor handling by the Dallas hospital on the day that Mr. Duncan first appeared there and then it seems everything they did after he returned to the hospital a few days later seems HIGHLY questionable.

 

So put the blame for the spread of this incident squarely where it belongs.

 

Also, I am not blaming any one entity for this. When innocent Americans are dying for no fault of their own - I could care less about "the hospital in DALLAS". Whether it's the hospital in dallas, or the record high STD's in New York City, I'm not into tribalism and blaming.

 

I merely look to the entity charged with keeping a nation as safe as possible - and that is the entity who will happily 'ban' my re-entry into America if refuse to lose fruits and veggies I picked in a different country. If they can ban me for a few apples and cherries - they can do it for Ebola reasons too.

[drguzmangarcia]

folks, let's keep this topic cruise related. And no political discussion either as it's against the forum rules. If this continues to go off topic it will have to be closed. Let's keep the discussion civil also. Thanks for your cooperation.

 

totally agree !!!

[ryano]

Carnival Magic is not being allowed to dock at Cozumel. Currently sitting a few miles off shore.

[LMaxwell]

I get travel insurance for every cruise. I do not get cancel for any reason insurance because the cost is stupidly higher than the cost for insurance if you cancel for being sick or missing a flight. I have no intention of canceling any of my booked cruises for any reason other than personally getting sick or missing a flight. Insurance companies would probably laugh at someone who wanted to cancel because they might have possibly maybe perhaps been exposed to someone who might possibly maybe potentially have been exposed to Ebola.

 

Death in your family? Natural disaster? Sudden emergency at your home? All unplanned for, but things happen. Regardless, if you DO have cancel for any reason insurance it means just that, any reason. You cancel / don't get on the ship, you get reimbursed. You insure to your own personal risk tolerance level.

[bouhunter]

Truth is this disease can't be kept out of the country either, unless you ban ALL travel from ALL countries -- and that won't happen.

 

What caused the spread of this situation in this country was poor handling by the Dallas hospital on the day that Mr. Duncan first appeared there and then it seems everything they did after he returned to the hospital a few days later seems HIGHLY questionable.

 

So put the blame for the spread of this incident squarely where it belongs.

 

And that blame is with our national leaders, not a hospital in Dallas:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

If we had banned travel from THREE countries this situation wouldn't be happening now:rolleyes: But our leaders were (and are) too ignorant or stubborn to make that decision. So stop blaming it on a hospital in Dallas it never should have ended up there. St. Lucia and Belize are smart enought to put some restrictions in place the USA isn't:rolleyes:

 

No point in going on, I agree with the mod this thread should be eliminated.......

[LMaxwell]

And that blame is with our national leaders, not a hospital in Dallas:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

If we had banned travel from THREE countries this situation wouldn't be happening now:rolleyes: But our leaders were (and are) too ignorant or stubborn to make that decision. So stop blaming it on a hospital in Dallas it never should have ended up there. St. Lucia and Belize are smart enought to put some restrictions in place the USA isn't:rolleyes:

 

No point in going on, I agree with the mod this thread should be eliminated.......

 

If there were the restrictions put in place that today you call for, you would be heaping praise on leadership efforts?

[Jenjer]

Carnival Magic is not being allowed to dock at Cozumel. Currently sitting a few miles off shore.

 

I feel sorry for all the passengers missing their port.

[LetsGetWet!]

If I had had contact and knew the incubation period had not yet elapsed, I'd use my brain to say don't travel, and I'd use my insurance to cancel for any reason and err on the side of safety. The "you can't fix stupid" part pertains to not only the health care professional here, but also to the general response in terms of erring on the side of caution, re: CDC

 

Being aware of the gestation period of a disease and also knowing full well that you are basically involved with a case resulting in a death already and illness to other health workers in your immediate area you'd think they would not get on the ship. But like I said, let's see if they had travel insurance or not. I'm willing to guess that they didn't and didn't want to lose out on their money and so took a risk. Time will tell if I was right or wrong.

I'm in complete and total agreement that the CDC - and the Dallas hospital - have made multiple errors during this series of events, errors which have seriously eroded public trust in whether or not we're prepared to handle ebola outbreaks. I won't even object to the characterization of "stupid" when talking about the CDC and the hospital over the last 2-3 weeks. I do think it was stupid for the CDC to instruct the nurse to go ahead and fly on Monday with a low grade fever. I think it was pretty stupid to originally send the ground 0 patient home with antibiotics when he presented with symptoms AND admitted he had recently traveled from an African outbreak area.

 

But I still maintain you're way out of line for labeling a health care worker as "stupid" when they've been relying on what the CDC is telling them as far as proper protocols to follow, and have been following those protocols completely. But I guess its pretty easy to sit there thousands of miles away behind a computer and call others stupid...

[Cruzin-K]

Death in your family? Natural disaster? Sudden emergency at your home? All unplanned for, but things happen. Regardless, if you DO have cancel for any reason insurance it means just that, any reason. You cancel / don't get on the ship, you get reimbursed. You insure to your own personal risk tolerance level.

Death and natural disaster would also be covered. I didn't feel like listing the entire 7 page long list of covered reasons. ;) Just trying to make the point that not everyone who cruises is going to choose the most expensive option for insurance. Everyone has their own level of risk tolerance. One choice is not any more valid than the other.

[time4u2go]

And that blame is with our national leaders, not a hospital in Dallas:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

If we had banned travel from THREE countries this situation wouldn't be happening now:rolleyes: But our leaders were (and are) too ignorant or stubborn to make that decision. So stop blaming it on a hospital in Dallas it never should have ended up there. St. Lucia and Belize are smart enought to put some restrictions in place the USA isn't:rolleyes:

 

No point in going on, I agree with the mod this thread should be eliminated.......

I don't think that's necessarily true. I would bet that people wanting to travel to the US from those countries would simply first go to other countries, then to the US.

[cruisegirl1]

I feel sorry for the people on the ship. Given the reaction of those of us not even traveling, can you imagine the thoughts going to the heads of the people on the cruise.

 

M

[LetsGetWet!]

If we had banned travel from THREE countries this situation wouldn't be happening now:rolleyes: But our leaders were (and are) too ignorant or stubborn to make that decision. So stop blaming it on a hospital in Dallas it never should have ended up there. St. Lucia and Belize are smart enought to put some restrictions in place the USA isn't:rolleyes:

 

No point in going on, I agree with the mod this thread should be eliminated.......

Mr. Duncan didn't arrive in Dallas on a flight from one of those three countries. He arrived in Dallas on a flight from Brussels, Belgium. That demonstrates well the difficulty of trying to ban travel from three specific countries in Africa. The ONLY way that would really work is for every country other than those three to ban all flights from the three countries. Or for the United States to ban flights for a period of time from ALL countries, which of course is completely unrealistic.

I don't think that's necessarily true. I would bet that people wanting to travel to the US from those countries would simply first go to other countries, then to the US.

Yes, exactly as Mr. Duncan did in this case...

Edited October 17, 2014 by LetsGetWet!

[LMaxwell]

 

But I still maintain you're way out of line for labeling a health care worker as "stupid" when they've been relying on what the CDC is telling them as far as proper protocols to follow, and have been following those protocols completely. But I guess its pretty easy to sit there thousands of miles away behind a computer and call others stupid...

 

It is! It really and truly is! With fresh coffee no less.

 

I don't know about you personally, but for myself I like to think I have my own pretty good personal sniff test. If I am in the middle of a known bad situation and someone is telling me everything is fine, nothing to worry about, go about daily life, I'd still elect to exercise MORE caution and in this scenario I'd not board a cruise ship. I would be suspect of what I had been told by the CDC as, to me, it seems like a very cavalier handling of a developing situation. Now, a sniff test is something developed over time and plays into ones own personal value system as well, so I am in no way bashing you, I am only trying to relate my thoughts in printed word.

 

Being given poor information and operating on it when you already may suspect it is poor information doesn't earn a free pass in my book. That's not to say this health care worker suspected it was bad information, but really, wouldn't you think someone in their position MIGHT have that sort of though? Speaking again for myself, I know I would.

 

Now, can we play nice and may I offer you a fresh coffee too?

[QTBabyNurse]

Mr. Duncan didn't arrive in Dallas on a flight from one of those three countries. He arrived in Dallas on a flight from Brussels, Belgium. That demonstrates well the difficulty of trying to ban travel from three specific countries in Africa. The ONLY way that would really work is for every country other than those three to ban all flights from the three countries. Or for the United States to ban flights for a period of time from ALL countries, which of course is completely unrealistic.

 

Yes, exactly as Mr. Duncan did in this case...

 

Don't people coming into this country have some trail of previous countries they've been in? What about visas? Passports? Don't those documents state the person's travel history and date?

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forums mobile app

[PerferWarmWeather]

Placing travel restrictions will not work, it could make things worse. Some travelers would do what is called "Broken Travel". If the US put travel restrictions on passengers going or coming from an Ebola country the passenger could easily book 2 separate trips. Here's an example: The passenger books a round trip from Atlanta to Brussels with a long stay in Brussels. In between the time suppose to be in Brussels the passenger books a second round trip to Africa. The passenger travels from Atlanta to Brussels on American Airlines, then takes the first leg of the second trip to Africa on another carrier other than American. They complete their Africa trip and return to Brussels in time for their return home to Atlanta. The U.S. government would never know the second trip happened, and now we have someone entering the U.S. possibly infected.

Edited October 17, 2014 by PerferWarmWeather

[bouhunter]

Mr. Duncan didn't arrive in Dallas on a flight from one of those three countries. He arrived in Dallas on a flight from Brussels, Belgium. That demonstrates well the difficulty of trying to ban travel from three specific countries in Africa. The ONLY way that would really work is for every country other than those three to ban all flights from the three countries. Or for the United States to ban flights for a period of time from ALL countries, which of course is completely unrealistic.

 

Yes, exactly as Mr. Duncan did in this case...

 

What a sad and ignorant way to look at this. Do your research first, he was on connecting flights FROM LIBERIA and there would be ways to track that easily. Computers can do amazing things, you know????

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-patient-thomas-eric-duncan-flew-united-airlines-to-dallas-texas/

 

But what the heck, why bother even trying to stop it from getting into the US, even though there might be ways to do so........:rolleyes:

Edited October 17, 2014 by bouhunter

[bouhunter]

If there were the restrictions put in place that today you call for, you would be heaping praise on leadership efforts?

 

No but I would be glad they had the courage to do so. And I felt they should have weeks ago, not "today":rolleyes:

[LetsGetWet!]

It is! It really and truly is! With fresh coffee no less.

 

I don't know about you personally, but for myself I like to think I have my own pretty good personal sniff test. If I am in the middle of a known bad situation and someone is telling me everything is fine, nothing to worry about, go about daily life, I'd still elect to exercise MORE caution and in this scenario I'd not board a cruise ship. I would be suspect of what I had been told by the CDC as, to me, it seems like a very cavalier handling of a developing situation. Now, a sniff test is something developed over time and plays into ones own personal value system as well, so I am in no way bashing you, I am only trying to relate my thoughts in printed word.

 

Being given poor information and operating on it when you already may suspect it is poor information doesn't earn a free pass in my book. That's not to say this health care worker suspected it was bad information, but really, wouldn't you think someone in their position MIGHT have that sort of though? Speaking again for myself, I know I would.

 

Now, can we play nice and may I offer you a fresh coffee too?

A request to "play nice" as you label others stupid, in a field where I suspect the depth of your personal knowledge is primarily via mainstream news reports. Ah, irony...

 

One continuing piece of information which I don't think has been labeled suspect by anyone thus far - if you're completely asymptomatic, you're not at all contagious and present no danger to anyone else. Living here in metro Dallas, its been interesting to see the difference between those who look at the situation using logic, and those who succumb to complete and total hysteria. I guess its obvious that range of responses also exists elsewhere and here on CC!

 

"Ban all flights from those three countries!" Virtually impossible, since there are very few direct flights from those countries to start with, vs. passengers arriving via connecting flights from a myriad of other countries.

 

"Every single health care worker involved should be quarantined for 3 weeks or longer if they've been involved with the case at all!" If there's a way to assure that we'll have NO health care workers willing to provide care in those cases, that's probably a great way to do it.

 

Again, if the lab supervisor aboard the cruise is completely and totally asymptomatic, with no trace of fever or any other symptoms, she already IS exhibiting a great deal of intelligence by letting the cruise line know AND essentially quarantining herself in her cabin. Far from stupid, whether or not someone outside of the health care field, thousands of miles away, getting their information from the media pronounces them as stupid.

 

Play nice, indeed - a great recommendation! Oh, and I just finished my second cup - fresh ground beans from a local specialty roaster who roasts them onsite and puts them on the half-price shelf if the roast date is more than 14 days old. ;)

[LetsGetWet!]

What a sad and ignorant way to look at this. Do your research first, he was on connecting flights FROM LIBERIA and there would be ways to track that easily. Computers can do amazing things, you know????

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-patient-thomas-eric-duncan-flew-united-airlines-to-dallas-texas/

 

But what the heck, why bother even trying to stop it from getting into the US, even though there might be ways to do so........:rolleyes:

So we have LMaxwell calling folks stupid and now you're calling me sad and ignorant - yes, I guess unfortunately it is about time to close the thread. Track that easily, huh? As a very experienced airline traveler with nearly 3 million miles accrued, I can tell you the airlines can't even track when I use hidden city and other ticketing methods to minimize my costs! Sure, forensically it was easy to determine which flights that particular individual was on. To track EVERYONE in advance, isn't nearly so easy. Did he buy a single ticket for those three flights, or did he buy separate tickets on the individual airlines? I suspect you have no idea.

[Big_G]

Part of the problem is that the CDC has had to devote a huge amount of resources to public outreach, which should be the job of the Surgeon General. Unfortunately, the NRA supporters in congress refuse to confirm the surgeon general because he considers gun violence to be a public health issue. :eyeroll:

 

Just an FYI, no need for the figure head Surgeon General. We have an Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response in the Department of Health and Human Services whose sole job is to be prepared:

 

The mission of her office is to lead the nation in preventing, responding to and recovering from the adverse health effects of public health emergencies and disasters, ranging from hurricanes to bioterrorism.

http://www.hhs.gov/about/foa/osleadership/aspr.html

 

...but not a peep out of her.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Big_G

[LMaxwell]

Play nice, indeed - a great recommendation! Oh, and I just finished my second cup - fresh ground beans from a local specialty roaster who roasts them onsite and puts them on the half-price shelf if the roast date is more than 14 days old. ;)

 

I just have K-Cups. It's probably not as good, but I have a variety and it's the thought that counts.:D

[Straughn]

International travelers have passports. Anyone coming into the country with a passport from a nation with Ebola should be interviewed/questioned/tested and possibly quarantined. Even if they have been away from their country for an extended period of time, they should still be screened. And for heavens sake, look at the stamps in the passport. African nations, and a lot of other third world countries, are stamp/seal/document obsessed. You don't get in or out of the county without a stamp in your passport. My late husband traveled extensively in Africa and his passport was full of exit and entry stamps with dates.

 

Everyone who enters our country, no matter where their citizenship is from, should have their passport stamps reviewed. If they indicate recent travel in a infected country, they receive additional screening. This isn't 100% foolproof but would go a long way toward catching people who may have been exposed to Ebola.

[ahecht]

Mr. Duncan didn't arrive in Dallas on a flight from one of those three countries. He arrived in Dallas on a flight from Brussels, Belgium. That demonstrates well the difficulty of trying to ban travel from three specific countries in Africa. The ONLY way that would really work is for every country other than those three to ban all flights from the three countries.

That would have the unfortunate side effect of preventing aid workers and supplies from getting to the affected areas, since any aid flights would end up being one way for the plane, pilots, and crew (not to mention that the halting of all imports and exports would further cripple the economies of those countries).

[time4u2go]

Don't people coming into this country have some trail of previous countries they've been in? What about visas? Passports? Don't those documents state the person's travel history and date?

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forums mobile app

Does your passport indicate every country you've cruised to, and the date you visited them?:rolleyes:

Edited October 17, 2014 by time4u2go

[bouhunter]

I suspect you have no idea.

 

And I suspect you have no interest in even trying to control what's coming into this country...............why even try, right?? Since we apparently can't track "everyone", why try at all..............?? Great plan. Oh and by the way, not eveyone is using your vast "3 million mile expertise" using "hidden cities" to "control costs"....... whatever.

 

In addition to at least SOME ability to track where people are coming from, there is the little issue of their passports stating their nationality that might help if they manage to get here. Belize and St. Lucia have figured out it might be a good idea to at least try to keep this desease out of the nations, but the USA hasn't.

 

But what do I know, after all you've flown 3MM miles.............:rolleyes:

Edited October 17, 2014 by bouhunter