Out of control dog on the Amsterdam

[Jade13]

http://www.cruiselaws.com/CruiseLaws/Lawsuits/Elizabeth_Ann_Arbelovsky_v_Holland_America_Line.pdf

 

Based on what i read in the Complaint, i don't think that HAL has anything to worry about. Yes, in a previous incarnation, I was a practicing attorney. And familiar with the ADA.

 

I am speculating, but I think that many passengers on the ship were afraid to complain because they didn't want to have an adversarial relationship with the Captain and staff on such a long cruise.

 

I read the lawsuit and it sounds frivolous.

 

She is suing because of time wasted arguing with HAL to bring her animal onboard without the requested paperwork, and she is arguing because she had to wait to board...and other complaint is that stateroom was not on the deck requested.

 

Did she pick a specific cabin or just take a cheaper QTY assuming they had to give her what was requested?

 

So, what paperwork is required by HAL to bring a service animal onboard?

Edited December 1, 2014 by Jade13

[geocruiser]

I do think the pending lawsuit is impacting HAL's behavior. Some believe that this woman is trying to provoke HAL so she can sue.

 

You could be right about the suit. But what if there is a class action law suit by all the other PAX against HAL for what has gone on during this cruise?

 

Maybe HAL should think about that. Or if a news staionn gets a hold of this story.

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

Wow, the Amsterdam has had its share of issues this year - first the "crazy

robed person" on the World Cruise and now the dog on the Grand Asia cruise.

[KNOT2L82SAIL]

Wow, the Amsterdam has had its share of issues this year - first the "crazy

robed person" on the World Cruise and now the dog on the Grand Asia cruise.

 

...and then I am going to be sailing on her starting on May 31. I promise to be on my best behavior. ;)

[JB&JLG74]

Wow, the Amsterdam has had its share of issues this year - first the "crazy

robed person" on the World Cruise and now the dog on the Grand Asia cruise.

Amsterdam also had the "glove lady" on the Hong Kong to Sydney but that was just plain sad as the woman was obviously ill and Australian social services was called to deal with her.

Edited December 1, 2014 by JB&JLG74
typos

[TiogaCruiser]

I read the lawsuit and it sounds frivolous.

 

She is suing because of time wasted arguing with HAL to bring her animal onboard without the requested paperwork, and she is arguing because she had to wait to board...and other complaint is that stateroom was not on the deck requested.

 

Did she pick a specific cabin or just take a cheaper QTY assuming they had to give her what was requested?

 

And another detail: she complains her cabin was supposed to be in a cabin where she would not have to descend stairs in an evacuation. Apparently she ended up in a Lanai (they are all ON the LP- THE evacuation deck, right?)

 

See allegation 17 in her complaint:

"More than a day after the ship sailed, defendant agreed to move the box to

the lanai outside plaintiffs stateroom."

 

Or perhaps "the lanai" refers to another space on the ship.

 

Granted, a service animal needs to be provided with adequate and convenient space to relieve himself or herself. There isn't much detail here to know. If this goes to a jury one has to wonder how many members would have ever cruised.

[Floridiana]

. But I don't think that allows us to overlook the "presents" we'd have to step over making our way around the ship.

 

You are right. If this wasn't a one time accident but a regular occurrence, it is disgusting.

[RuthC]

See allegation 17 in her complaint:

"More than a day after the ship sailed, defendant agreed to move the box to

the lanai outside plaintiffs stateroom."

 

Or perhaps "the lanai" refers to another space on the ship.

I suspect it's referring to a balcony. The ship referenced was the Statendam, and there are no lanai cabins on that ship.

The word "lanai" on land can refer to a deck. Combined with complaint that the woman had to go down to get to muster, it makes sense that the complaint used the wrong word.

 

But why not book the cabin you want in the first place?

 

Personally, if I were the Captain, I would seriously consider confining that woman to her cabin, with the exception of rest breaks for the dog.

[JB&JLG74]

Oh my Sapper.. This takes the cake! I too am laughing..:D:D:D

 

 

 

So agree with you Jackqui! Therapy Dogs do not permit those leashes.. I had a neighbor who was walking her dog one day with one of those leashes.. The dog was a lovely dog but much larger than Brandy..She wanted to play with Brandy who was still a Puppy.. They walked up our driveway, Brandy got frightened & went behind me.. Before I knew it both dogs & leashes were wrapped around my bare legs.. The other dogs leash ripped around my legs so hard they started to bleed.. I had scars for a long time..

 

We have to be in complete control of our dogs at all times.. I am Brandy's pack leader & she follows me around from room to room when we are home..

 

How is "Kazu's" ligament doing...Hope he's getting better & will be in perfect shape very soon..

 

Betty

 

I think there may be a misunderstanding about an "extended" leash. This was a normal leash (6 feet?) but the dog pulls on it so that the dog is not immediately next to the woman but a couple of feet away from her.

Edited December 1, 2014 by JB&JLG74

[JB&JLG74]

There has been some talk on this thread about agencies. This dog did not come from an agency. A friend was talking to the owner in the elevator very early in the cruise (before she knew to avoid the dog lady) and the lady told my friend that she got the dog as a 6 week old puppy. The dog is now 12 or 13 (I can't remember exactly) and the lady "trained" the dog herself. So there are now jokes about it being "home schooled."

 

Certification as a service dog can be purchased on the Internet for as low as $49. Apparently the ADA doesn't allow questions about the animal's credentials? Or HAL doesn't bother checking?

[kazu]

I think there may be a misunderstanding about an "extended" leash. This was a normal leash (6 feet?) but the dog pulls on it so that the dog is not immediately next to the woman but a couple of feet away from her.

 

ahh thank you. That is not the extended leash we see here. That goes to a lot of feet (I think 15, but I am not sure as I don't use them). They give you no control on the dog IMO and can break. And yes, a normal leash is 6' for walking and training purposes. Of course, that leash allows you to control the dog by shortening it, if you so choose :)

Edited December 1, 2014 by kazu

[PatsyAnne]

Are restaurants (and by extension onboard eating venues) allowed to require that no dogs be allowed above floor level or at least not in customer chairs or at the table? Sometimes when I sit on a chair or sofa after a dog, I have allergy problems (hands on chair, then hands by face = itchy and runny nose and eyes). I wouldn't enjoy that much on a cruise.

 

 

Trish

[Tarpeian Rock]

I am not normally one to advocate more governmental bureaucracy, but it seems to me that the whole area of comfort animals, emotional support animals, service animals, (including flying pigs) is seriously out of control. It seems to me to be a huge abuse of the system - and the ADA - when someone can, on a lark, board a plane with a 70-pound pig and claim "comfort animal" rights, when such animal bears no relation to the extraordinarily well-trained and properly-identified dogs one sees. Public carriers seem to be either woefully ignorant of what the ADA allows them to enforce, or unwilling to police such enforcement, as in the case of this dog. If, as regulations current allow, pigs and miniature horses must be accommodated as "comfort animals," seems to me there needs to be strict training, identification, certification, and regulation procedures so that someone cannot just decide to take Fluffy or Piggy or Secretariat Jr. along and claim all these privileges, including exemption from doo-doo duty. To say nothing about what is, and is not, allowed in a dining room.

[Cruisin uke]

We were also on the ship for 31 days with this 'service dog'. I'm not aware of the poop incidents, and heard of barking concerns third hand, so can't speak to those concerns. We did observe several situations in which it looked like the dog's owner was taking advantage of her 'disability' status

 

We heard the owner talk about the dog's importance in warning her of blood pressure problems. Since her dog's service role was supposedly to warn her of impending health changes, we thought it curious that she had no problem leaving the dog for 12 or more hours during her shore excursions. The owner was much more mobile than most of the people on the ship we saw with mobility issues. She insisted on getting the front row on buses, even though others with less mobility were respectful of other visitors and sat in other bus seats. She frequently demonstrated a sense of entitlement and pitched a fit when anyone challenged her.

 

Bottom line... The dog owner in this case demonstrated a sense of entitlement and obviously took advantage of ADA. Other guests observed this behavior and felt frustrated this guest was able to take advantage of HAL and other guests.

 

As a dog lover, i would love to bring my puppies with me... But there should be limits. There needs to be requirements to certify and document a service animal that people should be required to provide before being allowed on a ship.

[kazu]

We were also on the ship for 31 days with this 'service dog'. I'm not aware of the poop incidents, and heard of barking concerns third hand, so can't speak to those concerns. We did observe several situations in which it looked like the dog's owner was taking advantage of her 'disability' status

 

We heard the owner talk about the dog's importance in warning her of blood pressure problems. Since her dog's service role was supposedly to warn her of impending health changes, we thought it curious that she had no problem leaving the dog for 12 or more hours during her shore excursions. The owner was much more mobile than most of the people on the ship we saw with mobility issues. She insisted on getting the front row on buses, even though others with less mobility were respectful of other visitors and sat in other bus seats. She frequently demonstrated a sense of entitlement and pitched a fit when anyone challenged her.

 

Bottom line... The dog owner in this case demonstrated a sense of entitlement and obviously took advantage of ADA. Other guests observed this behavior and felt frustrated this guest was able to take advantage of HAL and other guests.

 

As a dog lover, i would love to bring my puppies with me... But there should be limits. There needs to be requirements to certify and document a service animal that people should be required to provide before being allowed on a ship.

 

Welcome to Cruise Critic.

 

You have started with a great post:D

[serendipity1499]

I think there may be a misunderstanding about an "extended" leash. This was a normal leash (6 feet?) but the dog pulls on it so that the dog is not immediately next to the woman but a couple of feet away from her.

 

Thanks for the clarification.. I thought the dog was on a retractable extended wire leash.. Those are the ones we are not permitted to use... In addition they can be are dangerous.. Our leashes must not be over be 5Ft. in length..

[Ocean Dancer]

WOW, I have seen and cruised with many service animals and have never experienced anything like this on land or sea. Someone clearly "messed up" in allowing this to happen and even continue. Have the cruisers ever heard of Muteny?

We are cruising on the Amsterdam for 45 days next year. We also have three chickens that LOVE my husband, and follow him everywhere. They seem to be better behaved than this dog. Gee, I would not want to tramatize our chickens or my husband..............would we qualify? We could even donate the fresh eggs to the MDR.:D

Edited December 2, 2014 by Ocean Dancer

[Hlitner]

Just tell HAL they are "Service Chickens" and I suspect they would have no issues with you bringing them aboard :)

 

Hank

[Mmtrip]

So someone clarify...

 

Is it one chicken per Adult over 21 or one per cabin for free as long as the chicken stays in the room?

 

Additional chickens have service fee (corkage)....? Where does the new improved sticker (no longer green circle according to POA1) go?

 

Please let me know, leaving in 6 days on the Amsterdam.

 

PS If I happen to have a mean rooster that likes to chase entitled dog owners with "blood pressure" issues, no Fee?:D

 

*edit* I'm easily confused, maybe I am mixing up all the different posts I have read today....

Edited December 2, 2014 by Mmtrip

[bcummin]

Welcome to Cruise Critic.

Thank you for contributing to this forum.

We should leave our chickens at home :)

 

Barbara

[Ocean Dancer]

I intended to lighten up and give "you guys" a laugh. Thank you all for making me laugh also!!:D

 

If only One chicken per person per room..........The poor one who has to stay home would be devistated!!! Really!!:rolleyes: But really, they do follow my DH around as if he is the mother duck.........if he stops, they run into him.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

...Sometimes when I sit on a chair or sofa after a dog, I have allergy problems (hands on chair, then hands by face = itchy and runny nose and eyes). I wouldn't enjoy that much on a cruise.

 

In addition, some people are phobic around animals. I had a neighbor once that would have a panic attack if a dog (or cat) came anywhere near her, especially if it was loose or out-of-control. I'm sure she would never expect to find a poorly trained one on a cruise.

 

Those who abuse ADA regulations are giving the rest a bad name, IMO, and I suspect there are many.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Ryndam2002

[TiogaCruiser]

So someone clarify...

 

Is it one chicken per Adult over 21 or one per cabin for free as long as the chicken stays in the room?

 

Additional chickens have service fee (corkage)....? Where does the new improved sticker (no longer green circle according to POA1) go?

 

Please let me know, leaving in 6 days on the Amsterdam.

...

 

No, it's two of a kind. We can just rename the Amsterdam the "Arkdam" and be done with it.:p

[JB&JLG74]

We were also on the ship for 31 days with this 'service dog'. I'm not aware of the poop incidents, and heard of barking concerns third hand, so can't speak to those concerns. We did observe several situations in which it looked like the dog's owner was taking advantage of her 'disability' status

 

We heard the owner talk about the dog's importance in warning her of blood pressure problems. Since her dog's service role was supposedly to warn her of impending health changes, we thought it curious that she had no problem leaving the dog for 12 or more hours during her shore excursions. The owner was much more mobile than most of the people on the ship we saw with mobility issues. She insisted on getting the front row on buses, even though others with less mobility were respectful of other visitors and sat in other bus seats. She frequently demonstrated a sense of entitlement and pitched a fit when anyone challenged her.

 

Bottom line... The dog owner in this case demonstrated a sense of entitlement and obviously took advantage of ADA. Other guests observed this behavior and felt frustrated this guest was able to take advantage of HAL and other guests.

 

As a dog lover, i would love to bring my puppies with me... But there should be limits. There needs to be requirements to certify and document a service animal that people should be required to provide before being allowed on a ship.

I can't remember when I heard about the poop. Definitely well past Hong Kong. I think it was around Sydney.

[Ocean Dancer]

No, it's two of a kind. We can just rename the Amsterdam the "Arkdam" and be done with it.:p

 

 

 

 

The Arkdam..........I love it!!!

I hear Siegfield and Roy will be preforming.