Out of control dog on the Amsterdam

[Windsailer]

Ah, but do they have the backbone? That is the question.

 

Based on what's going on on the Amsterdam, it doesn't appear so.

[Mmtrip]

I imagine the crew are just counting the days until she disembarks in San Diego.

 

Has anyone confirmed that she is disembarking in San Diego?

 

Personal stake in this.:)

[RuthC]

Based on what's going on on the Amsterdam, it doesn't appear so.

Oh, I agree.

 

If all my years in the workforce taught me anything, they taught me that those on the front lines want to do something to take control of situations, but won't get the backing of superiors back in the main office.

Were they to go ahead anyway, those front line people would be hung out to dry.

Believe me, I felt I was on the carpet more often than my vacuum cleaner. :rolleyes:

[Cruising is in my genes]

We were on the Amsterdam from Seattle to Hong Kong. The dog lady was seen frequently wheeling her small dog. She volunteered to have her dog be part of a presentation on Asian dress because of it's large costume collection.

 

I agree that this kind of behavior will make it more difficult for REAL service animals.

[SilvertoGold]

Oh, I agree.

 

If all my years in the workforce taught me anything, they taught me that those on the front lines want to do something to take control of situations, but won't get the backing of superiors back in the main office.

Were they to go ahead anyway, those front line people would be hung out to dry.

Believe me, I felt I was on the carpet more often than my vacuum cleaner. :rolleyes:

 

Nicely put, Ruth. So true!

[Folk Singer]

Nicely put, Ruth. So true!

 

Agree with you. Ruth was spot on.

[MCDW]

Hi, I was one a TA in Oct/Nov this year. There were three yorkies on the ship. My spring TA had a pom dog in a stroller.

 

To bring a dog on board, the passenger signs a form that says the passenger will be responsible for the behavior of the dog. The dog performs a task/tasks for the passenger and is a service dog as defined by ADA.

 

I know, because I had 15 long cruises with my retired guide dog for the deaf and have completed 3 TA's in the last 1.5 years with my current guide dog. My guide school is a member of the International Federation of Guide Schools. The school breeds the dogs for alertness and disposition, they are trained for 1.5 to 2 years of age before the dog and future handler meet. The school selects the appropriate dog for the human partner. The dog is always the property of the school up to the retirement of the dog. The human partner must live and work with the dog at the school for weeks under the direct supervision of the trainers.

 

Our school uses goldens/labs and standard poodles for blind and mostly standard and miniature poodles for deaf. The poodles are used if the client

or a family member has allergies.

 

Yes, people are buying certificates and service jackets on line. I am sure it is big business. In the USA, Canine Companions for Independence(CCI) is working to bring awareness about this fraudulent behavior. Don't know what anyone can do, unless the ADA is rewritten.

[Windsailer]

Has anyone confirmed that she is disembarking in San Diego?

 

Personal stake in this.:)

 

If I was boarding in SD I would call and ask if she and the dog are leaving the shop then:

Access & Compliance Department

Phone: 1-800-547-8493

[SilvertoGold]

I have read this thread and am wondering how other lines handle/would handle such a situation.

 

I've read blogs from cruisers on Crystal, Cunard, Oceania and Regent and can't imagine that those lines would allow this, only for fear of being sued. Those are the so-called "premium" lines and from reading the blogs, I get the impression that such cruisers expect a more "perfect" cruise, meaning a lack of such "problems" that can detract from the experience, as this seems to be doing on the Amsterdam.

[Cruzin Terri]

I have read this thread and am wondering how other lines handle/would handle such a situation.

 

I've read blogs from cruisers on Crystal, Cunard, Oceania and Regent and can't imagine that those lines would allow this, only for fear of being sued. Those are the so-called "premium" lines and from reading the blogs, I get the impression that such cruisers expect a more "perfect" cruise, meaning a lack of such "problems" that can detract from the experience, as this seems to be doing on the Amsterdam.

 

Cunard allows pets to sail with you. They have their own quarters.

Terri

[doublebzz]

Cunard allows pets to sail with you. They have their own quarters.

Terri

 

Yes, this is true and guests must walk and otherwise tend to their pets in the kennel area. However, these are not service animals. I rather expect all cruise lines must adhere to regulations pertaining to service animals.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

Has anyone confirmed that she is disembarking in San Diego?

 

Personal stake in this.:)

 

One poster mentioned this, but I have no further confirmation. The current cruise ends in San Diego, if I am reading HAL's website correctly. The Amsterdam then departs from SD on a trans-canal trip that same day, Dec. 8th. So unless she is doing a B2B, she would be disembarking then.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Ryndam2002

[durangoscots]

Cunard allows pets to sail with you. They have their own quarters.

Terri

 

Only the Queen Mary 2 - and then only on Transatlantic crossings.

 

Susan

[Hlitner]

Only the Queen Mary 2 - and then only on Transatlantic crossings.

 

Susan

 

Getting a reservation for the Kennel is not always easy. There is only room for 12 dogs and the facility tends to book are in advance. And those Kennels cost $500-$700 (they may have increased the price) with owners allowed to visit their dogs and take them out to the adjacent area. But the dogs are never permitted to leave that restricted Kennel area.

 

Hank

[Salacia]

Cunard allows pets to sail with you. They have their own quarters.

Terri

 

Just to be accurate, the following is quoted from http://www.cunard.com/frequent-questions/

 

Are dogs welcome?

 

Queen Mary 2’s kennel programme is available on all Transatlantic Crossings between New York and Southampton in either direction, and is managed by a full-time Kennel Master who takes care of responsibilities such as feeding, walking and cleaning the ship’s 12 spacious kennels. Travelling dogs and cats also receive a complimentary gift pack. The kennels and adjacent indoor and outdoor walking areas are open throughout the day, enabling guests to spend significant time with their pets. Reservations for the kennels may be made at time of booking, and are based on availability. Contact Cunard for fees, details and additional requirements. All animals must be in compliance with the Pets Travel Scheme and in possession of a pet passport.

 

 

 

Are service animals/guide dogs welcome?

 

Cunard is pleased to permit individuals to bring service animals on board. You must provide notice of this at time of booking. Local laws or customs may prevent animals from disembarking at particular ports or countries. It is the passenger's responsibility to consult local customs authorities for requirements and to obtain all applicable documents and health certificates. Service animals are kept in staterooms with their owners. Non-service animals are only carried on QUEEN MARY 2 Transatlantic Crossings, in kennels, and are not allowed to visit any guest area of the ship.

[Salacia]

Hi, I was one a TA in Oct/Nov this year. There were three yorkies on the ship. My spring TA had a pom dog in a stroller.

 

To bring a dog on board, the passenger signs a form that says the passenger will be responsible for the behavior of the dog. The dog performs a task/tasks for the passenger and is a service dog as defined by ADA.

 

I know, because I had 15 long cruises with my retired guide dog for the deaf and have completed 3 TA's in the last 1.5 years with my current guide dog. My guide school is a member of the International Federation of Guide Schools. The school breeds the dogs for alertness and disposition, they are trained for 1.5 to 2 years of age before the dog and future handler meet. The school selects the appropriate dog for the human partner. The dog is always the property of the school up to the retirement of the dog. The human partner must live and work with the dog at the school for weeks under the direct supervision of the trainers.

 

Our school uses goldens/labs and standard poodles for blind and mostly standard and miniature poodles for deaf. The poodles are used if the client

or a family member has allergies.

 

Yes, people are buying certificates and service jackets on line. I am sure it is big business. In the USA, Canine Companions for Independence(CCI) is working to bring awareness about this fraudulent behavior. Don't know what anyone can do, unless the ADA is rewritten.

 

MCDW, thanks for that information. And thanks to those who raise these loving dogs from puppies, and the humans who appreciate the dog's skills and form a bond.

 

Sometimes, when you stop and think about it...it really is wonderful world :)

 

Cheers & Happy Holidays,

Salacia

Edited December 4, 2014 by Salacia

[travelinjones]

Not sure how other cruise lines handle but we did witness how Southwest Airlines handled an Emotional Support Animal issue when we were waiting for our post-cruise flight out of Ft. Lauderdale this summer.

 

A women by us in the boarding area was very distraught. She had a dog, and her hands full, and had lost her phone. We offered to help her by calling her cell number and she located the missing phone. Once she calmed down, the gate agent came over and firmly explained that she would have to pay $95 to take her dog on the plane (which had an emotional support vest, special tag, leash and carrying case.) What she didn't have was a letter from a mental health professional or medical doctor who is treating the Customer's mental health-related disability stating what was needed to be stated. She had to get out her credit card and pay to take the dog on as a pet, as anyone else with a pet would. She was upset at all the money she had spent registering her dog online and buying all the "supplies" which the gate agent told her meant nothing to airlines.

 

When we got home I was curious so I investigated - and Southwest has a very clear policy on it's website about "Trained Assistance Animals" and "Emotional Support Animals." See link here: https://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/unique-travel-needs/customers-with-disabilities-pol.html#unique_travel_needs_allergies_disabilities_pol_tab_list_tab_10

 

After reading this long thread, I was curious as to what Holland America had in writing on it's website. Here's what I found:

 

Service animals are permitted on board Holland America Line ships. Guests may walk their animals on a service deck where a relief area, including padding such as sod or wood chips, can be constructed with advance notification. Also by advance request, the maitre d’ will arrange a convenient table in the dining room with space for the animal on the floor. Guests must supply their own pet food and make arrangements for quarantine papers and port clearances through their travel agent. Guests should be aware that many ports do not allow animals, including service animals, to disembark the ship.

[MCDW]

Not sure how other cruise lines handle but we did witness how Southwest Airlines handled an Emotional Support Animal issue when we were waiting for our post-cruise flight out of Ft. Lauderdale this summer.

 

A women by us in the boarding area was very distraught. She had a dog, and her hands full, and had lost her phone. We offered to help her by calling her cell number and she located the missing phone. Once she calmed down, the gate agent came over and firmly explained that she would have to pay $95 to take her dog on the plane (which had an emotional support vest, special tag, leash and carrying case.) What she didn't have was a letter from a mental health professional or medical doctor who is treating the Customer's mental health-related disability stating what was needed to be stated. She had to get out her credit card and pay to take the dog on as a pet, as anyone else with a pet would. She was upset at all the money she had spent registering her dog online and buying all the "supplies" which the gate agent told her meant nothing to airlines.

 

When we got home I was curious so I investigated - and Southwest has a very clear policy on it's website about "Trained Assistance Animals" and "Emotional Support Animals." See link here: https://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/unique-travel-needs/customers-with-disabilities-pol.html#unique_travel_needs_allergies_disabilities_pol_tab_list_tab_10

 

After reading this long thread, I was curious as to what Holland America had in writing on it's website. Here's what I found:

 

Service animals are permitted on board Holland America Line ships. Guests may walk their animals on a service deck where a relief area, including padding such as sod or wood chips, can be constructed with advance notification. Also by advance request, the maitre d’ will arrange a convenient table in the dining room with space for the animal on the floor. Guests must supply their own pet food and make arrangements for quarantine papers and port clearances through their travel agent. Guests should be aware that many ports do not allow animals, including service animals, to disembark the ship.

 

So true.....near the end of our TA in Oct,one of the Caribbean countries wanted $100. Just to bring Misty ashore to play ball on the grass. Each Caribbean country has its own rules. At least the EU has standardized the rules for service dog entry. Service dogs are not subject to quarantine subject to ensuring the proper paperwork is submitted and the dog has had a clean titter test

[JACKWC]

:mad:This appropriate rant was taken from the Seattle Times today

 

"RANT To self-absorbed people who abuse the concept and rules regarding service dogs and bring their pets to stores, offices, airports and other public venues. A legitimate service animal is trained to assist a person with a disability; being a dog and providing comfort and emotional support is an inherent attribute, not a trained function that the dog does. I love my dog too, but leave it home or take it for walks".

[Scrapnana]

:mad:This appropriate rant was taken from the Seattle Times today

 

"RANT To self-absorbed people who abuse the concept and rules regarding service dogs and bring their pets to stores, offices, airports and other public venues. A legitimate service animal is trained to assist a person with a disability; being a dog and providing comfort and emotional support is an inherent attribute, not a trained function that the dog does. I love my dog too, but leave it home or take it for walks".

 

Unfortunately, many of those self-absorbed people would not recognize themselves in this. Definitely don't think Amsterdam's "Dog Woman" would.

[RiverCityCruiser]

Just completed a 32 day San Diego to Buenos Aires cruise (Oct-Nov) on the Zandam.

We had two "service dogs" on the San Diego to Santiago segment. No big problems, except my wife's allergies. We avoided as much as possible. The animals were clearly treated as pets.

[Windsailer]

Just completed a 32 day San Diego to Buenos Aires cruise (Oct-Nov) on the Zandam.

We had two "service dogs" on the San Diego to Santiago segment. No big problems, except my wife's allergies. We avoided as much as possible. The animals were clearly treated as pets.

 

I wonder if HAL is the "go-to" cruise line for bringing pet dogs on? Seems like the process for reviewing whether the animal is classified as a "service animal" is more relaxed on HAL.

[Hlitner]

I wonder if HAL is the "go-to" cruise line for bringing pet dogs on? Seems like the process for reviewing whether the animal is classified as a "service animal" is more relaxed on HAL.

 

We do not think that is true. On recent Celebrity and Princess cruises we also had a few service dogs (with no behavior issues) and we have seen some major abuse of the Service Dog issue on a few RCI cruises. The reality is that any cruise line using US Ports will allow Service Dogs aboard...with very few questions. The lines are subject to the ADA and accordingly are not allowed to ask many questions other then "is this a service dog" and "what service does the dog do." Since there is no official Service Dog licensing standard in the US there is no way to verify the true status of a dog (and master). Anyone can go online and buy various products like "Service Dog vests" and ID. One web site sells a "Service Dog" package that includes Id, Certificate, and various other amenities for only $49.

 

So getting back to the OP's comment, there is actually no way that a cruise line (or any other entity) can review/verify whether a Service Dog is truly a Service Dog.

 

Hank

[CowPrincess]

>SNIP< Anyone can go online and buy various products like "Service Dog vests" and ID. One web site sells a "Service Dog" package that includes Id, Certificate, and various other amenities for only $49.

 

>SNIP<

 

Hank

 

Wow, the price has dropped :eek: Last time I looked (it was a couple of years ago) the going rate for gaming the system was $149 ....

[TanningPro]

Hopefully for the rest of the passengers, this lady is getting off in SAN, which is just another week. HAL should definitely let her know she is not welcome on another cruise if she brings the dog. They should be able to deny her further boarding without any legal issues - putting her off the ship mid-cruise would be another legal can of worms and that is probably why they are waffling on the issue right now. They accepted her and the dog on the cruise and took her money, so are probably stuck with the whole mess right now. Hope the passengers all write HAL in Seattle about this issue - they all paid lots for this cruise and deserve better, health issues with the poop aside. And the crew deserves better - they are not paid to clean up dog poop.

 

Remember being on a ship with the show dog Indy and what a sweet little thing. Never barked when in public areas and pranced around when being taken outside etc. No one said anything negative about that, so well-behaved dogs are not an issue.

 

Also remember a few years ago reading a "live" report on a TA where a woman cruising alone was blind and had a guide dog. Again, everyone was positive about the dog being all over the ship and were so happy the woman was able to cruise. But this was a properly trained guide dog. Even read when the outside decks were closed during rough weather, that the crew helped take the dog to the poop spot. In this case, the crew was appreciative of a well-trained dog and a nice owner.

 

Unfortunate that this lady has made a bad name for assistance animals. Properly trained ones should be almost invisible.

 

Wonder why Jeff has not commented on this in his blog.

 

Jeff hasn't commented because it is a non issue to me I am too busy having one of the best voyages I have ever been on. I will make a point of commenting on my blog even though I hate to be distracted by such irrelevant issues. Bottom line, for those wanting to enjoy a great voyage this was it!