Should One Cruise to Greece During the Financial Crisis?

[4774Papa]

Absolutely you should still travel to Greece the country needs all the tourists they can get to get them back to stability

With that logic, we should all go to Venezuela or even Zimbabwe.

[peteukmcr]

Actually not sitting pretty at all. My super fund lost thousands of dollars due to the stock market reaction here in Australia leaving me to wonder about my own retirement plans. So I am a little peeved at the No vote to say the least.

 

 

I said 'many' not 'all' so I understand there will be some 'losers' as a result. However, by the nature of investments, they can go down as well as up. Isn't the advice never gamble/invest more than you can afford to lose?

Edited July 7, 2015 by peteukmcr

[DYKWIA]

With that logic, we should all go to Venezuela or even Zimbabwe.

 

Yes, great idea, perhaps Celebrity can add Zimbabwe to a future itinerary. Perhaps a world cruise featuring Paraguay, Laos, Nepal and Switzerland

[jveevers]

it depends how you count the beans...

 

over 2/3 of people in Greece pay tax at source - "the normal way", i.e. they cannot stop paying tax because it is automatically deducted.

 

So that leaves about 1/3 who are supposed to pay by other means. Some of these will pay what they owe, some won't. So if Greece has 89% tax evasion, like many countries it is a minority of people who are responsible for that, at most a 1/3 because everyone else pays at source. And if a minority of people are responsible for 89% tax evasion in a country then they will be a very well off minority or / and companies.

 

Greece failed to repay 1.54 billion Euros - the loss to the Australian Stock market alone was estimated at $35 billion dollars in reaction to the news. France and Germany markets lost 4% of their value. It would have been a lot cheaper to have a whip round, and wipe that debt off.

 

Back in 1953, Greece was party to the London Agreement On German External Debts which effectively wrote off a huge proportion of Germany's debt after WW2 and allowed that country to prosper from dire financial circumstances.

I am close to retirement. The drop in the AU Stock (share) market due to Greece problems has seen my Superannuation nest egg drop by $1000's and will have a financial impact on my future vacation plans. However I will still be going to Athens and Corfu in August, taking whatever extra precautions. Maybe not even leaving the ship if things are looking ugly.

[waterbug123]

Just saw on one of the financial shows, if you go there don't bring your credit cards as most are not taking them. Bring cash.

 

And yet, I'm reading reports of folks on the ground there who say credit cards ARE still being accepted, at many places that have traditionally taken them. (Many don't, but didn't before either) Could that change? Of course, but don't take everything you hear "in the media" as gospel, as they tend to preach doom and gloom. After all, good news doesn't sell ad space. ;)

[Pushka]

I said 'many' not 'all' so I understand there will be some 'losers' as a result. However, by the nature of investments, they can go down as well as up. Isn't the advice never gamble/invest more than you can afford to lose?

 

 

That means that all superannuation should sit in a bank earning 2% when inflation runs at 2.5%. Not a great plan for retirement.

 

All Australian superannuation funds have lost heavily in recent weeks due to Greek uncertainty. Plus our dollar has also fallen to a 6 year low against all currencies due recently to the Greek crisis. There is no crowing from Aussies but genuine loss and from me, some anger.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Pushka

[Cruise Junky]

And yet, I'm reading reports of folks on the ground there who say credit cards ARE still being accepted, at many places that have traditionally taken them. (Many don't, but didn't before either) Could that change? Of course, but don't take everything you hear "in the media" as gospel, as they tend to preach doom and gloom. After all, good news doesn't sell ad space. ;)

 

They were taking credit cards but with the further banking collapse, even Canada is reporting that will be the next thing to go. They will be unable to process credit card payments.

[Cruise Junky]

it depends how you count the beans...

 

over 2/3 of people in Greece pay tax at source - "the normal way", i.e. they cannot stop paying tax because it is automatically deducted.

 

So that leaves about 1/3 who are supposed to pay by other means. Some of these will pay what they owe, some won't. So if Greece has 89% tax evasion, like many countries it is a minority of people who are responsible for that, at most a 1/3 because everyone else pays at source. And if a minority of people are responsible for 89% tax evasion in a country then they will be a very well off minority or / and companies.

 

 

As you said, it depends on how you count it. You have 100s of thousands of unfinished houses in Greece..just leave a little unfinished = no property taxes. Thousands that don't report dead relatives to continue to collect their state pensions, a large portion of an island that claims to be blind for extra benefits. There is so much tax evation going on. I realize this is the link to the daily mail :( but it's an interesting read and a lot of this was confirmed by tour guides we've had in Athens.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3148451/A-island-pretending-blind-benefits-8-500-pensioners-faked-aged-100-lawyers-claim-earn-just-12-000-New-book-reveals-Greeks-cheated-ruin.html

 

There are many parts to the current Greek situation, Goldman Sachs, the Bond Market, Olympics, 2008 but Greek citizens share a part in that. It's a society that cannot sustain itself.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Cruise Junky

[DYKWIA]

As you said, it depends on how you count it. You have 100s of thousands of unfinished houses in Greece..just leave a little unfinished = no property taxes. Thousands that don't report dead relatives to continue to collect their state pensions, a large portion of an island that claims to be blind for extra benefits. There is so much tax evation going on. I realize this is the link to the daily mail :( but it's an interesting read and a lot of this was confirmed by tour guides we've had in Athens.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3148451/A-island-pretending-blind-benefits-8-500-pensioners-faked-aged-100-lawyers-claim-earn-just-12-000-New-book-reveals-Greeks-cheated-ruin.html

 

Ahh yes, the Daily Mail, I have installed an app that if I try to look at a page from that paper on line it takes me to a cute picture of a cat. :D

The publisher of the Daily Mail, Lord Rothermere, takes French nationality and claims non Dom tax status in the UK.

 

If people are doing this it a failure by the government to regulate and enforce regulations. If regulations are not enforced it's difficult to blame people on moderate incomes from taking advantage. Prescription fraud was rife at one time in the England when people realised that there was no one checking to see that you were entitled to free prescriptions, that's changed now because now they do check.

[nordski]

They were taking credit cards but with the further banking collapse, even Canada is reporting that will be the next thing to go. They will be unable to process credit card payments.

 

 

Is this on the Foreign Affairs Travel Advisory site?

 

If so, I can't find it and would appreciate a link.

[Wiltonian]

I am close to retirement. The drop in the AU Stock (share) market due to Greece problems has seen my Superannuation nest egg drop by $1000's and will have a financial impact on my future vacation plans. However I will still be going to Athens and Corfu in August, taking whatever extra precautions. Maybe not even leaving the ship if things are looking ugly.

 

Since the world-wide recession is the underlying cause for Greece's problems, any boycott of Greece should logically be accompanied by a boycott of New York and London. FWIW Greece wrote off a far bigger German debt (and today's values) in 1953.

 

Stuart

[Wiltonian]

As you said, it depends on how you count it. You have 100s of thousands of unfinished houses in Greece..just leave a little unfinished = no property taxes. Thousands that don't report dead relatives to continue to collect their state pensions, a large portion of an island that claims to be blind for extra benefits. There is so much tax evation going on. I realize this is the link to the daily mail :( but it's an interesting read and a lot of this was confirmed by tour guides we've had in Athens.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3148451/A-island-pretending-blind-benefits-8-500-pensioners-faked-aged-100-lawyers-claim-earn-just-12-000-New-book-reveals-Greeks-cheated-ruin.html

 

There are many parts to the current Greek situation, Goldman Sachs, the Bond Market, Olympics, 2008 but Greek citizens share a part in that. It's a society that cannot sustain itself.

 

The Daily Mail has a deserved reputation in the UK for mis-reporting. It offers the antithesis of balanced reporting - as soldiers in WW1 commented!

 

Stuart

[Cruise Junky]

Is this on the Foreign Affairs Travel Advisory site?

 

If so, I can't find it and would appreciate a link.

 

I haven't seen in there yet. In Canada it was more of a warning that it is likely to happen. But I think the WSJ had something on it the other day. I read on one of these threads on Greece that one Canadian bank's credit cards no longer work in Greece. But they didn't say which bank.

[Wiltonian]

Talk about 'I'm alright Jack'. The sanctimonious attitude on here is deafening. OK, the situation may have been self inflicted, but all your comments showing no sympathy or pity still does not answer the original question 'Should One Cruise to Greece?' .

 

Obviously there are many of you who are sitting pretty from the security of your own financial situation and are happy for others to suffer so you can feel superior. Carry on, but as I keep saying, I'll cruise to Greece if allowed and will try and do what little I can to help the local economy.

 

Agreed! FWIW, the US tax-payer bailed our the failed banks by far far more than Greece's total debt. The bank bail out globally was about 17 Trillion dollars; Greece is around $370 billion in debt.

 

 

 

Stuart

Edited July 7, 2015 by Wiltonian

[Cruise Junky]

The Daily Mail has a deserved reputation in the UK for mis-reporting. It offers the antithesis of balanced reporting - as soldiers in WW1 commented!

 

Stuart

 

But what i linked to wasn't a a DM piece it was discussing a book which as I said the circumstances in the book were talked about by our Athens guide. I wouldn't trust the DM either

[nordski]

I haven't seen in there yet. In Canada it was more of a warning that it is likely to happen. But I think the WSJ had something on it the other day. I read on one of these threads on Greece that one Canadian bank's credit cards no longer work in Greece. But they didn't say which bank.

 

 

Thanks for the information.

[Kamloops50]

I haven't seen in there yet. In Canada it was more of a warning that it is likely to happen. But I think the WSJ had something on it the other day. I read on one of these threads on Greece that one Canadian bank's credit cards no longer work in Greece. But they didn't say which bank.

 

I use RBC in Canada . They have said they won't allow you to use their credit card in Greece as per the user agreement for the use of their cards. This also includes bank debit cards.

[Cruise Junky]

I use RBC in Canada . They have said they won't allow you to use their credit card in Greece as per the user agreement for the use of their cards. This also includes bank debit cards.

 

Thanks. I knew I'd read it somewhere.

[Evangaline]

I haven't seen in there yet. In Canada it was more of a warning that it is likely to happen. But I think the WSJ had something on it the other day. I read on one of these threads on Greece that one Canadian bank's credit cards no longer work in Greece. But they didn't say which bank.

 

There are several posts from people who had their credit cards blocked from making transactions to businesses in Greece. Some banks are fearful that credit card holders will come to them if goods and services are not delivered because the Greek banks failed or the merchants can not provide the goods or services promised because of fallout from this crisis.

 

One large importer of Greek goods here in Canada was told by the exporting business not to pay for his shipment because the company did not know how they would access their money if it went into a Greek bank. I'm not sure how the payment was then sorted out, but it would seem businesses can not continue to operate without cash flow.

 

We put deposits down on a private tour of Athens. I have no idea if I could get that money back now if I cancelled. However, I am not cancelling. I just don't have the heart to do that and hopefully the tour will go ahead even though that is looking increasingly uncertain.

[boards]

I agree . I would personally stay away from Athens. The rest of the country should be ok for tourists.

 

If you are boarding a cruise in Greece how do you get to the ship if don't fly into Athens?

[DYKWIA]

If you are boarding a cruise in Greece how do you get to the ship if don't fly into Athens?

 

Are any Celebrity Cruises beginning or ending in Greece? Many call in but not aware of any that start or end there.

[Cruise Junky]

Are any Celebrity Cruises beginning or ending in Greece? Many call in but not aware of any that start or end there.

 

Equinox has some 7 day Athens to Istanbul cruises. Next departure July 11

[DYKWIA]

Equinox has some 7 day Athens to Istanbul cruises. Next departure July 11

 

You're right. I'm wrong. My TAs site wasn't showing any departures from Greek ports but Celebrity clearly have a cruise leaving from Athens.

[nordski]

I use RBC in Canada . They have said they won't allow you to use their credit card in Greece as per the user agreement for the use of their cards. This also includes bank debit cards.

 

 

I would be interested if a link is available for that policy.

 

I just spoke to an RBC Visa agent, and they had no knowledge of this rule. As they stated, and I am paraphrasing, the card is good anywhere in the world.

 

Not certain, given a number of economically troubled nations, why they would single out Greece.

 

Thanks for making me think about this.

[keesar]

I would cruise to Athens and the islands with little hesitancy. It would be wise to book excursions via Celebrity to avoid issues with currency. In Athens, if you are walking with a group, you will be fine. If walking alone, you probably will be approached by some 'strange' people along the way.