SINGLE HSC/TIPPING THREAD (Previously "Why are gratuities not included in Fares?")

[RJ2002]

I do see the reference to the higher fee effective May 1, but I don't see anything about eliminating the ability of adjusting the HSC. ???

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action?tabName=Shipboard%20Life&contentMenu=Money%20Matters&contentSubMenu=Is%20There%20A%20Hotel%20Service%20Charge%20(Gratuity%2FTip)#

[POA1]

OK. What's the new rate? The OP says that it increased, but left out the dollar figure.

[*Miss G*]

I always have a feeling of sadness when people choose not to tip, or argue against it. $13.50 to $15/day is a bargain for what I am getting. I factor it into the cost of the trip and forget about it. Attendants who go above-and-beyond are also recognized.... most notably the stateroom attendants. Life could have easily placed us in opposite circumstances.

Edited April 22, 2017 by *Miss G*

[albingirl]

I also don't understand the repeated reference to "cheerleaders". It's a bit condescending.

[Tampa Girl]

It is important for families to consider, before booking a "discounted" fare on HAL, that for a one week cruise add maybe $350 to the fare you pay. For a three-week cruise, add over a thousand. A couple adds half those amounts per cabin, for even the cheapest cabin on board. But it's still a big factor to consider before booking your next cruise...the industry is always "evolving".

Unless one intends to prematurely decide, even boarding, that the service will be unsatisfactory, why would one not factor in the daily gratuities?

[RocketMan275]

Looking at HAL's website today I notice automatic service charges are increasing for cruises departing after May 1 2017. Also notice, though it is only obvious by comparing the new policy to the old, that daily hotel service charges per person CAN NO LONGER BE ADJUSTED.

 

The OLD policy (in effect until recently) permitted adjustments of the daily service charge by attending at the front desk and filling out a simple form, no questions asked:

"If our service exceeds or fails to meet

your

expectations,

you are free to adjust this amount

at the end of

eachsegment

and/or

voyage

. The Hotel Service Charge is paid entirely toHolland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of theircompensation. A 15% Bar Service Charge is automatically added to bar chargesand Dining Room wine purchases. In terminals, airports, ports of call and onshore excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent withcustomary local practices."

Check out the new 2017 policy under "Money Matters" on HAL's website. The new policy essentially removes the first sentence from the old policy. They don't bring this to your attention. It's actually very subtle. But the effect appears to be HAL is now charging a non-adjustable hotel service charge. There's a growing trend among the cruiselines to find revenue from charging mandatory service charges, HAL is moving with the trend. Its new policy is in line with NCL's. A family of 4 is looking at over USD $50 per day in daily service charges. These are over and above the auto-gratuities charged on drinks etc. It all adds up.

 

To be certain, I am not interested in re-igniting a senseless old debate about the merits of tipping. Heard it all before from the cruiseline cheerleaders and the cruiseline insiders guised as cheerleaders. I firmly subscribe to the view that the only tips the staff ever see are the cash you slip them discretely. The rest of these charges are cruiseline revenue/profit shamelessly pitched as gratuities. I say don't be fooled or shamed by cheerleaders.

 

It is important for families to consider, before booking a "discounted" fare on HAL, that for a one week cruise add maybe $350 to the fare you pay. For a three-week cruise, add over a thousand. A couple adds half those amounts per cabin, for even the cheapest cabin on board. But it's still a big factor to consider before booking your next cruise...the industry is always "evolving".

 

Please post a link to the policy change. The Holland website I access says: "If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount at the end of each segment and/or voyage. The Hotel Service Charge is paid entirely to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their compensation. A 15% Bar Service Charge is automatically added to bar charges and Dining Room wine purchases. In terminals, airports, ports of call and on shore excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent with customary local practices." This page also notes the change in amounts.

Here's the link.

https://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action?tabName=Shipboard%20Life&contentMenu=Money%20Matters&contentSubMenu=Is%20There%20A%20Hotel%20Service%20Charge%20(Gratuity%2FTip)#

[*Miss G*]

OK. What's the new rate? The OP says that it increased, but left out the dollar figure.

 

For sailings departing on or after May 1, 2017 the daily Hotel Service Charge for suites is USD$15.00* per guest per day, and USD$13.50* per guest per day for other staterooms.

[RocketMan275]

On what do you base this belief? I have had crew members (on different lines) tell me they did receive the full amount.

 

There are some who will go to any extreme to justify not paying gratuities. If you don't like the idea of paying gratuities, then it is very convenient to believe this.

[Rumball]

On what do you base this belief? I have had crew members (on different lines) tell me they did receive the full amount.

 

 

I have had crew members, on different lines, tell me they did not.

 

They did not volunteer it, I probed because I was curious. I am satisfied I know the truth now. I spend a lot more time cruising than I do surfing this board scrapnana.

 

It used to be pay cash if you want to tip an individual. Otherwise, you are tipping a cruiseline.

 

Now the cruiseline is calling it what it is - a hotel service charge - that you cannot adjust. But shamefully, they are pitching it as a means to increase the income of the workers on board. That is shameful because the service charge is a revenue enhancer not a tip. If you feel the workers are underpaid it's because their employers - the cruiselines - underpay them. As far as the cruiselines are concerned they meet the minimum labour requirements of the jurisdictions they are bound to follow (not typically where passengers live) so they are complying with "the law" and workers are obviously satisfied with what they are paid or why else would they come work on the ship?

 

If you feel the cruise staff deserve more than the cruiseline pays them to serve you, tip them. But tip them with cash. And accept your cash goes only to the worker you are paying. Forget about the worker hidden away in the bowels of the ship pressing your ships or loading coal into the burners (I know)...there's no chance your tip will ever get to him/her, regardless of how hard you try. Live with it.

 

Again, this isn't about tips, it's about service charges. Not the same thing. HAL isn't even calling it gratuities anymore, they call it a service charge. Like a resort fee. Just a way of charging you more for nothing. Like a resort fee in Vegas. I say nothing because no, it's not a tip. Tips are what you pay in cash to someone you wanna tip. This is an added charge. And it's significant. And now, for the first time, it appears to be non-adjustable. So every person booking a cruise should be aware of this significant automatic non-adjustable added charge they will pay on board. That's all I wanted to say. Know before you book.

[oaktreerb]

I think HAL has been easing us into this transition. Several promos have included gratuities with in the last year or so. You can't remove gratuities that were included as a perk. I'm sure the staff are expecting the gratuities as part of their compensation and it is distributed to many that serve but are not always seen. I'm also sure some people who enjoy "rigging" the system have taken advantage of the option. I'm glad HAL will be expecting everyone to contribute. It's also fair to the rest of us who follow the rules.

 

If a cruiser feels they are receiving poor service they should write it on a comment form and give it to the front desk. Be sure to write it down instead of just telling the front desk. These forms are taken seriously. You will be contacted.

[taxmantoo]

To be certain, I am not interested in re-igniting a senseless old debate about the merits of tipping. Heard it all before from the cruiseline cheerleaders and the cruiseline insiders guised as cheerleaders. I firmly subscribe to the view that the only tips the staff ever see are the cash you slip them discretely. The rest of these charges are cruiseline revenue/profit shamelessly pitched as gratuities. I say don't be fooled or shamed by cheerleaders.

 

Interested or not, I think you just did. :rolleyes:

[bUU]

Would a crew member say that they don't receive their full portion of the HSC even if they actually do? Hmm.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[Rumball]

Please post a link to the policy change. The Holland website I access says: "If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount at the end of each segment and/or voyage. The Hotel Service Charge is paid entirely to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their compensation. A 15% Bar Service Charge is automatically added to bar charges and Dining Room wine purchases. In terminals, airports, ports of call and on shore excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent with customary local practices." This page also notes the change in amounts.

Here's the link.

https://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action?tabName=Shipboard%20Life&contentMenu=Money%20Matters&contentSubMenu=Is%20There%20A%20Hotel%20Service%20Charge%20(Gratuity%2FTip)#

 

 

Here's the link to the 2017 policy, go to page 16:

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/assets/cruise-vacation-onboard/KBYG.pdf

 

 

HOTEL SERVICE CHARGE

 

 

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. This includes those crew members who serve you directly, such as Dining Room wait staff and the stewards who service your stateroom each day. There are also many others who support their efforts whom you may never meet, such as galley and laundry staff. To ensure that the efforts of all of our crew members are recognized and rewarded, a daily Hotel Service Charge is automatically added to each guest’s shipboard account.

 

 

For sailings departing on or prior to April 30, 2017 the daily Hotel Service Charge for suites is USD$13.50* per guest per day, and USD$12.50* per guest per day for other staterooms. For sailings departing on or after May 1, 2017 the daily Hotel Service Charge for suites is USD$15.00* per guest per day, and USD$13.50* per guest per day for other staterooms (*The charges are subject to change without notice.) For more details, please visit "Money Matters" under the Shipboard Life section of our website at hollandamerica. com. The Hotel Service Charge is paid to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their compensation. A 15% Bar Service Charge is automatically added to bar charges and Dining Room wine purchases. In terminals, airports, ports of call and on shore excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent with customary local practices.

[RocketMan275]

Would a crew member say that they don't receive their full portion of the HSC even if they actually do? Hmm.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

There is a financial incentive for a crew member to say they don't receive their full portion.

There is also an incentive for the crew member to tell the passenger what they perceive the passenger wants to hear.

[sail7seas]

I also don't understand the repeated reference to "cheerleaders". It's a bit condescending.

....I agrree with you and find it somewhat insulting OP chose to make snide comments about HAL loyalists rather than provide the message that would seem to be the "intended" message for the thread. What are the new service charge rates? Clearly if it maters all that much, I can go to the HAL site and read for myself but I already read with this thread. :), expecting to get that information.

[Rumball]

There is a financial incentive for a crew member to say they don't receive their full portion.

There is also an incentive for the crew member to tell the passenger what they perceive the passenger wants to hear.

 

Would a crew member fearful of losing his/her job say they receive auto-tips when they don't ?? hmm...

 

Would a crew member fearful of losing his/her job say they are happy as can be, when they are not?? hmm....

 

Would a crew member smile all day long because they are just that happy, or because they are fearful of losing their job if they don't smile all day long?? hmm...

[RJ2002]

Here's the link to the 2017 policy, go to page 16:

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/assets/cruise-vacation-onboard/KBYG.pdf

 

 

HOTEL SERVICE CHARGE

 

 

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. This includes those crew members who serve you directly, such as Dining Room wait staff and the stewards who service your stateroom each day. There are also many others who support their efforts whom you may never meet, such as galley and laundry staff. To ensure that the efforts of all of our crew members are recognized and rewarded, a daily Hotel Service Charge is automatically added to each guest’s shipboard account.

 

 

For sailings departing on or prior to April 30, 2017 the daily Hotel Service Charge for suites is USD$13.50* per guest per day, and USD$12.50* per guest per day for other staterooms. For sailings departing on or after May 1, 2017 the daily Hotel Service Charge for suites is USD$15.00* per guest per day, and USD$13.50* per guest per day for other staterooms (*The charges are subject to change without notice.) For more details, please visit "Money Matters" under the Shipboard Life section of our website at hollandamerica. com. The Hotel Service Charge is paid to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their compensation. A 15% Bar Service Charge is automatically added to bar charges and Dining Room wine purchases. In terminals, airports, ports of call and on shore excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent with customary local practices.

 

Well, it still refers to the ability to remove the HSC under "Money Matters". Unless you know for a fact that it can't be removed after May 1, then I'd say we need further reports based on actual experience.

[RocketMan275]

Here's the link to the 2017 policy, go to page 16:

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/assets/cruise-vacation-onboard/KBYG.pdf

 

 

HOTEL SERVICE CHARGE

 

 

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. This includes those crew members who serve you directly, such as Dining Room wait staff and the stewards who service your stateroom each day. There are also many others who support their efforts whom you may never meet, such as galley and laundry staff. To ensure that the efforts of all of our crew members are recognized and rewarded, a daily Hotel Service Charge is automatically added to each guest’s shipboard account.

 

 

For sailings departing on or prior to April 30, 2017 the daily Hotel Service Charge for suites is USD$13.50* per guest per day, and USD$12.50* per guest per day for other staterooms. For sailings departing on or after May 1, 2017 the daily Hotel Service Charge for suites is USD$15.00* per guest per day, and USD$13.50* per guest per day for other staterooms (*The charges are subject to change without notice.) For more details, please visit "Money Matters" under the Shipboard Life section of our website at hollandamerica. com. The Hotel Service Charge is paid to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their compensation. A 15% Bar Service Charge is automatically added to bar charges and Dining Room wine purchases. In terminals, airports, ports of call and on shore excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent with customary local practices.

 

First of all, there is no "money matters" section under "Shipboard Life"

Second, and most importantly, there is a "Shipboard Life" section and that section is the one I linked above and it includes the following:

 

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action?tabName=Shipboard%20Life&contentMenu=Money%20Matters&contentSubMenu=Is%20There%20A%20Hotel%20Service%20Charge%20(Gratuity%2FTip)#

 

"If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount at the end of each segment and/or voyage."

which totally refutes your claim.

It also includes the following:

"The Hotel Service Charge is paid entirely to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their compensation."

which totally refutes your claim that the crew does not receive all of the service charge.

 

Now, if you still insist that the crew doesn't receive the service charge, you are free to engage a lawyer and sue Holland for fraudulent advertising.

[bUU]

There is a financial incentive for a crew member to say they don't receive their full portion.

There is also an incentive for the crew member to tell the passenger what they perceive the passenger wants to hear.

Makes sense. Would a company, often subject to public scrutiny, as well as public auditing of their books, explicitly claim that money with certain tax treatment is actually being allocated in a different way?

 

 

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[Rumball]

Anyway maybe someone who is sailing in the next month or so can report back on whether they were successful in adjusting these new service charges. I'd be curious to find out. I am only trying to interpret the new policy because I think it is unclear. And practice on board the ships in my experience does not always line up with the website policy anyway. In some ways the shipboard practice may be better, sometimes it's worse. It all depends.

 

thanks, and happy cruising...

[*Miss G*]

Anyway maybe someone who is sailing in the next month or so can report back on whether they were successful in adjusting these new service charges.

 

Hopefully, there won't be any.

[RocketMan275]

Would a crew member fearful of losing his/her job say they receive auto-tips when they don't ?? hmm...

 

Would a crew member fearful of losing his/her job say they are happy as can be, when they are not?? hmm....

 

Would a crew member smile all day long because they are just that happy, or because they are fearful of losing their job if they don't smile all day long?? hmm...

Would a crew member respond in a manner designed to please a customer who "probed" trying to get a specific response?

Would a crew member tell you they didn't receive the service charge hoping that would be an incentive for you to tip them again?

You alleged that this happens on "different lines" as well as Holland. How did the cruise lines keep this quiet? Why haven't there been multiple law suits?

[Rumball]

First of all, there is no "money matters" section under "Shipboard Life"

Second, and most importantly, there is a "Shipboard Life" section and that section is the one I linked above and it includes the following:

 

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action?tabName=Shipboard%20Life&contentMenu=Money%20Matters&contentSubMenu=Is%20There%20A%20Hotel%20Service%20Charge%20(Gratuity%2FTip)#

 

"If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount at the end of each segment and/or voyage."

which totally refutes your claim.

It also includes the following:

"The Hotel Service Charge is paid entirely to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their compensation."

which totally refutes your claim that the crew does not receive all of the service charge.

 

Now, if you still insist that the crew doesn't receive the service charge, you are free to engage a lawyer and sue Holland for fraudulent advertising.

 

 

If a crew member feels he or she doesn't receive the service charge, that crew member might feel free to retain a lawyer...but why would I? Because I hold a viewpoint that differs from you? Thanks for your helpful suggestion.

 

On page 16 of the linked document it addresses Hotel Service Charge, as posted, under Shipboard Life. Just posting HAL's document by the way, I didn't draft it.

[RocketMan275]

Makes sense. Would a company, often subject to public scrutiny, as well as public auditing of their books, explicitly claim that money with certain tax treatment is actually being allocated in a different way?

 

 

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

That's a very good point. All the cruise lines are subject to an audit of some kind. Falsification of financial reports is a "go to jail" kind of offense.

[RocketMan275]

If a crew member feels he or she doesn't receive the service charge, that crew member might feel free to retain a lawyer...but why would I? Because I hold a viewpoint that differs from you? Thanks for your helpful suggestion.

 

On page 16 of the linked document it addresses Hotel Service Charge, as posted, under Shipboard Life. Just posting HAL's document by the way, I didn't draft it.

And, I posted another portion of the website that refutes your claims in their entirety. A portion, I might add, that your document references.

 

BTW, your claim that the cruise lines do not pass on the service charge to their employees would constitute tax fraud in most jurisdictions. Most jurisdiction offer significant incentives to those who expose tax fraud. Go for it.