SINGLE HSC/TIPPING THREAD (Previously "Why are gratuities not included in Fares?")

[Rumball]

Looking at HAL's website today I notice automatic service charges are increasing for cruises departing after May 1 2017. Also notice, though it is only obvious by comparing the new policy to the old, that daily hotel service charges per person CAN NO LONGER BE ADJUSTED.

 

 

 

I have just read the money matters on the HAL website and it clearly states you can adjust the HSC as copied below directly from the "Is there a HSC (Gratuity/Tip)?" answer. This is stated in the paragraph following the table of current and new charges.

 

If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount at the end of each segment and/or voyage. The Hotel Service Charge is paid entirely to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their compensation.

 

 

I see that now. Unfortunately there is another document on the website called "2017 What You Need To Know Before You Go" that describes the HSC at p. 16 but doesn't explicitly mention it's adjustable. Probably just an oversight. Here's a link to that document: https://www.hollandamerica.com/assets/cruise-vacation-onboard/KBYG.pdf

[Rumball]

I'm sure if I pay someone $50 in cash, it adds $50 to his/her income.

Well, actually it doesn't because it has been demonstrated repeatedly that funds given directly to an employee must be turned into the tipping pool.

 

Hey Rocketman, you must be right because you preface all your comments by saying "actually".

Anyway, if I give someone a tip it's meant for that person. Unless I suggest otherwise it's not for a pool. If that person chooses to share it, or if that person is coerced by an employer to share it, that's not consistent with my intention but it's beyond my control.

 

A tip should not be about control. It's a personal gesture to acknowledge good service.

 

Sadly auto-tipping is a product of cruise lines exerting their control and extinguishing an opportunity for personalized gestures. I say extinguish because the expected response of "well you can always pay cash to individuals and pay the auto-tip too" ignores the reality that most folks can't and won't. If the cruise lines begin targeting their product to the 1% instead of the 10%, ships will start "sinking".

 

 

Actually, that isn't the case either. If you look at the link (provided repeatedly), you'll notice this on the HAL website: "Is There A Hotel Service Charge (Gratuity/Tip)?" So, actually, HAL uses those terms interchangeably.

I think it's been pointed out they don't. Actually.

There is plenty of "tolerance for contrary opinions" when those "contrary opinions" have the basis in reality/facts that yours so clearly do not.

 

So clearly?? You must have meant to say "actually".

[*Miss G*]

I don't understand the animosity. :(

[RDC1]

I've never been to a hotel or resort in the USA where the HSC or Resort Fee was built into the rate. We are currently staying in Walt Disney World and there's a $22 fee added onto our folio. It posts daily - and it's neither negotiable nor removable. When we reserved the hotel, the quoted rates showed taxes, but not the daily service charge.

 

It's not that unusual for the service charge to be handled this way. It really isn't.

 

With the hotel service charge you mentioned, since it is mandatory, it is revenue to the hotel.

Under US financial accounting rules (which the cruise lines must follow since they list on US exchanges) under certain rules, including that they must be removable or modifiable, and they must all be distributed to employees, the money received is not considered to be revenue to the company, nor is the money paid out expense. It is outside of the companies financial system.

 

If there is a service fee that cannot be removed then that is considered to be income to the company, and any payout to the employees is considered to be salary and a corresponding expense. The hotel service charge falls into that category and really is just a way for the hotel to increase revenue.

 

Those service charges are pretty common. Law requires that they be disclosed at time of booking and included in total cost estimates.

[POA1]

By the way the quote function is working a bit strange. For instance I never said/typed the quote POA1 posted but I had quoted that statement from another post by another member. Apparently when POA1 quoted that post it attributed the statement to me. Not complaining just noting the quote function is not quite right.

 

No problem. I just wanted to clarify that the cash tips actually go to the tipee* as long as the passenger leaves the HSC in place.

 

*Probably not a real word, but "Tippee Ki Yay."

[Randyk47]

No problem. I just wanted to clarify that the cash tips actually go to the tipee* as long as the passenger leaves the HSC in place.

 

*Probably not a real word, but "Tippee Ki Yay."

 

Obviously there's some difference of opinion and maybe even some evidence that some lines require all tips to be turned in though that wasn't specifically linked to Holland America. Barring firm evidence to the contrary I'll stick with the guidance in the employee manual which would be worded totally different if all tips were required to be surrendered. Personally I'd like to know what lines require or force all tips to be turned in and admit that I might rethink my tips if I knew that to be the case and I was on one of those lines. Other than that I don't care what happens to my tips, none of my business or concern once the money leaves my hand.

[bobandjo]

OK, newbie here but a little confused about stewards, waiters etc having to give cash tips to the pool if I cancel HSC. We won't be cancelling on our upcoming first cruise but say on a 7 day cruise on day 5 I give our room steward a cash tip, we're open dining but say we get same waiter and give him some $ on day 5, maybe the wine steward too. Everybody's happy happy. Then on day 6 I go down to Guest whatever and cancel my HSC. How do those people know they're supposed to put whatever we gave them, if they can even remember how much, back into the pool?

[jtl513]

How do those people know they're supposed to put whatever we gave them, if they can even remember how much, back into the pool?

I've often wondered the same thing. Maybe they are supposed to keep track of who gave what throughout the cruise so that they will know what to turn in at cruise end. But what about the steward in the Lido that you gave a buck or two who has no idea who you are, and most likely won't get the list of who opts out of the HSC? (As far as money you give to a wine steward or bartender or bar server, they have no problem because they aren't part of the HSC pool ... they have their own pool funded by the automatic 15% beverage service charge. They get to keep the cash whether or not you opt out of HSC.) I've come to believe that HAL isn't concerned with these small, incidental tips, but just large amounts given at cruise end.

[Randyk47]

OK, newbie here but a little confused about stewards, waiters etc having to give cash tips to the pool if I cancel HSC. We won't be cancelling on our upcoming first cruise but say on a 7 day cruise on day 5 I give our room steward a cash tip, we're open dining but say we get same waiter and give him some $ on day 5, maybe the wine steward too. Everybody's happy happy. Then on day 6 I go down to Guest whatever and cancel my HSC. How do those people know they're supposed to put whatever we gave them, if they can even remember how much, back into the pool?

 

Not sure how it works for dining room staff but the cabin stewards are given a list of the people/cabins that have removed or reduced the HSC. There's a reminder that any cash tips received from the people/cabins on the list has to be turned in. Obviously there's a trust and honesty aspect but I assume the penalty if caught knowingly withholding cash tips is significant enough to force the majority if not all to comply.

[LMaxwell]

OK, newbie here but a little confused about stewards, waiters etc having to give cash tips to the pool if I cancel HSC. We won't be cancelling on our upcoming first cruise but say on a 7 day cruise on day 5 I give our room steward a cash tip, we're open dining but say we get same waiter and give him some $ on day 5, maybe the wine steward too. Everybody's happy happy. Then on day 6 I go down to Guest whatever and cancel my HSC. How do those people know they're supposed to put whatever we gave them, if they can even remember how much, back into the pool?

 

They don't.

[LMaxwell]

Not sure how it works for dining room staff but the cabin stewards are given a list of the people/cabins that have removed or reduced the HSC. There's a reminder that any cash tips received from the people/cabins on the list has to be turned in. Obviously there's a trust and honesty aspect but I assume the penalty if caught knowingly withholding cash tips is significant enough to force the majority if not all to comply.

 

Doubt it.

 

"The one that removed it didn't give me any cash at all. All of this cash I have is from people that left the charge on". No way for anyone to reasonably know.

 

Does anyone here really believe they have the time and manpower to shake down staff at the end of each shift for cash?

[jtl513]

Obviously there's a trust and honesty aspect but I assume the penalty if caught knowingly withholding cash tips is significant enough to force the majority if not all to comply.

I agree.

[RuthC]

Obviously there's a trust and honesty aspect but I assume the penalty if caught knowingly withholding cash tips is significant enough to force the majority if not all to comply.

Not to mention the peer pressure to follow the rules they have all agreed to.

The stewards live in close quarters, and will notice if one consistently holds back on cash tips when they are supposed to be turning them in. It amounts to stealing from them! They won't let someone get away with it.

[RDC1]

OK, newbie here but a little confused about stewards, waiters etc having to give cash tips to the pool if I cancel HSC. We won't be cancelling on our upcoming first cruise but say on a 7 day cruise on day 5 I give our room steward a cash tip, we're open dining but say we get same waiter and give him some $ on day 5, maybe the wine steward too. Everybody's happy happy. Then on day 6 I go down to Guest whatever and cancel my HSC. How do those people know they're supposed to put whatever we gave them, if they can even remember how much, back into the pool?

 

On some lines, not sure about HAL, they produce a list of all passengers that cancel the daily gratuity charge. That list is distributed. As such the crew members do get notification when HSC is canceled. On one cruise line (not HAL), all cash tips had to be reported and turned in (they had to complete a log that had a line for each cash tip with date, amount, and cabin number that was submitted with the money). Then after the cruise those in excess of the daily charge were returned to the crew member. I would expect that HAL also has some process to prevent confusion.

Edited April 27, 2017 by RDC1

[RDC1]

I've often wondered the same thing. Maybe they are supposed to keep track of who gave what throughout the cruise so that they will know what to turn in at cruise end. But what about the steward in the Lido that you gave a buck or two who has no idea who you are, and most likely won't get the list of who opts out of the HSC? (As far as money you give to a wine steward or bartender or bar server, they have no problem because they aren't part of the HSC pool ... they have their own pool funded by the automatic 15% beverage service charge. They get to keep the cash whether or not you opt out of HSC.) I've come to believe that HAL isn't concerned with these small, incidental tips, but just large amounts given at cruise end.

 

Keep in mind that the 15% beverage charge, is a totally different category than the HSC. Because the beverage service charge is mandatory and cannot be removed, that money is revenue to the cruise line, and any payment of it to the crew is considered to be salary, not tips, according to accounting rules that HAL (as a CCL company) must comply with.

[LMaxwell]

Not to mention the peer pressure to follow the rules they have all agreed to.

The stewards live in close quarters, and will notice if one consistently holds back on cash tips when they are supposed to be turning them in. It amounts to stealing from them! They won't let someone get away with it.

 

No one is shaking them down, it just makes no sense. There's no way to know. One of the biggest costs to any business is realized at hiring and training time, they care that employees hit certain metrics.

[bUU]

With regard to any concerns about cruise lines that require pooling of tips and concerns about not knowing how cruise lines distribute pooled tips... Such concerns seem to be big concerns about comparatively small issues given the truly big issues regarding the actual total compensation that crew can expect compared to what they would have been able to expect if all American standards for compensation were in effect. The difference between what someone would receive with tips pooled versus tips not pooled is so much smaller than the difference were they earning US minimum wage and time and a half for overtime.

 

Therefore we passengers need to make a decision whether we will engage with the cruise lines' arrangement or not, and if so accept the minor vagaries and minor peculiarities of it if we're going to overlook the major vagaries and the major peculiarities of it.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[alwaysfrantic]

Do y'all ask every server when you go out to dinner their tip pool structure? Oh my goodness, just leave the auto-charge in place. If you want to "tip" do. If you don't want to "tip," don't.

 

Do you tell your local restaurant you feel like they are charging a buck too much for the steak on the menu and you suspect it is actually going to salaries? Do you ask your server downtown how much he makes in a week? No!

 

Let these hard working folks do their jobs and don't speculate on their employment arrangements.

 

Just do what is expected of you. These are hard working men and women trying to feed their families with a job. Don't try to make them the Dionne quintuplets.

Edited April 27, 2017 by alwaysfrantic

[RDC1]

With regard to any concerns about cruise lines that require pooling of tips and concerns about not knowing how cruise lines distribute pooled tips... Such concerns seem to be big concerns about comparatively small issues given the truly big issues regarding the actual total compensation that crew can expect compared to what they would have been able to expect if all American standards for compensation were in effect. The difference between what someone would receive with tips pooled versus tips not pooled is so much smaller than the difference were they earning US minimum wage and time and a half for overtime.

 

Therefore we passengers need to make a decision whether we will engage with the cruise lines' arrangement or not, and if so accept the minor vagaries and minor peculiarities of it if we're going to overlook the major vagaries and the major peculiarities of it.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

However, the bench mark for those workers is not US incomes, it is the incomes that they can get in their home countries. They work on cruise ships because the money they make is often multiples of what they can make at home.

[kevingastreich]

I was just on a website reading about Zuiderdam and it said HSC is $15.00 per day for suites and $13.50 for all other cabins. Last I knew, suites were $13.50, Did it just go up or is it only on certain ships or am I behind the curve on this? Thanks.

[bUU]

It went up recently, yes.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[paulajcrocker]

Oh my goodness!!! So much information!! Thanks to everyone who commented!!

[Retired 07]

I did a search, and really couldn't find the answer to this question. We are taking our first European cruise next month, and were wondering if room service (and other cash tipping) should be done in U.S. dollars, or the currency of the country we will be in. (Norway) Any help is appreciated.

[kazu]

I did a search, and really couldn't find the answer to this question. We are taking our first European cruise next month, and were wondering if room service (and other cash tipping) should be done in U.S. dollars, or the currency of the country we will be in. (Norway) Any help is appreciated.

 

U.S. $ is the currency of the ship so it is usually preferred. That's what we usually use.

 

If the ship is continuing on in Euro zones, then euros would be ok as well.

 

We don't tip in currency that is not used in many countries (ie, rubles, kroners, etc.)

[OlsSalt]

I did a search, and really couldn't find the answer to this question. We are taking our first European cruise next month, and were wondering if room service (and other cash tipping) should be done in U.S. dollars, or the currency of the country we will be in. (Norway) Any help is appreciated.

 

We do not tip for room service. We consider this an included dining option so we don't tip for it anymore than we tip in the main dining room every night.

 

Others do. I prefer to honor a cash-less based ship environment and wait until the end of the cruise to tip for areas of repeated and extraordinary service. But the room service is simply a routine meal delivery service (on carts) no different than any other dining venue.

 

Some claim they get better or preferred service by handing out generous room service tips up front. However, we have never never had a problem not being among the tippers. Nor do we mind getting called "cheap" by those who do tip.

 

Never think it is a good idea to throw cash around in order to force one's way to the front of the line over other passengers when on a closed environment cruise ship. But that is me and call me old fashioned.