Is the High Cost of Flights Curtailing your Cruising Plan's

[tdiazfarmer]

The poster above apparently flew first class on Alaska, which also entitles them to 2 free checked bags, and isn't an option on Southwest. Perhaps they meant that after they considered the price of coach with bag fees on Alaska, the price of coach without bag fees on Southwest, and the price of first class on Alaska, the best option was 1st class on Alaska with free bags, better seats, better service, etc. ;)

 

 

That is exactly correct! We are sailing on June 9th out of Seattle and ultimately 1st class on Alaska was surprisingly our best option!

 

 

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[slidergirl]

I can honestly say I am one of those "look at every option" people.

 

When we were sailing with 2 kids, in cost vs. time, we chose the 19 hour drives to Florida from Pittsburgh, PA. Flights were about $300pp with to and from port 2 years ago.

 

Looking at Airfare from Pittsburgh or NYC for just 3 of us was... well stupid and that was a year ago. I could pay $300pp round trip with a layover in Chicago or Atlanta and it would take 8 hours (SW), I could fly direct at about $500pp including bags... or I could drive and pay for parking/hotel for about $400 total amd 6 hours of time. Another no brainer IMO.

 

Needing to get away is like a must for me right now! Was looking at booking something short (4-5 days) with just DH and I. Total cost to fly for a cruise leaving on odd days (Thursday - Monday) would be $350pp just for the flight. Add on another $80 for the shuttle to and from port, and a cab to and from the airport here for $40 the cost would be $410pp.

 

The budget airlines don't fly on a reasonable time schedule here to make anything. If I could afford an extra day there and 2 days back sure... but I work full time, am a full time student, and a full time care giver to my grandmother. If I could afford those extra 3 days, I would be looking at a 7 day cruise!

 

Airfare depends a TON on where you live!! A good example is doing basic price looking for our Med cruise. Sure this is really far out so basing it on this November but flying from Pittsburgh would be $900pp for the cheapest flight and be almost 19 hours. Compare that to us flying out of Newark, a 5 hour drive (flight leaves late enough we could do it the same day) and it becomes $680pp with parking the whole time we are gone.

 

In going back to domestic airfare, Newark to Miami on the same dates as it was from Pittsburgh, would be $270 a person instead of $410. Same if I would take a 4 hour drive to Baltimore or Washington. Considering it would raise the cost to $250 with gas and parking.

 

But I totally agree with having a "master plan" like Gardyloo said!! I have budgeted $2500 in airfare after basic checks for our Med cruise. Sure it seems like a ton to me, the girl who drives everywhere and if it is less than that go me!!

 

Back to the basic point though, instead of doing a "GET ME OUTTA HERE!!" cruise that I need, me and DH will be taking a short 4 day land trip. Sure it's one of those cheesy Poconos hotels, but going there with an open mind about the rooms and their needing updated from the 70s. We will still get away, planing on hikes and nature stuff and just 1 day at an adventure course and it would come out about $700 cheaper than if we flew out for a 4 day cruise.

 

Since you were looking at flights out of PIT to "the Med" (I assume either FCO or BCN), of course there are no non-stops, so you have to do a connection. There are totals from 11.5 hours up to over 20 hours. But, sometimes you do have to pay a premium for those quick connections. Do you want to fly out of PIT with a 2 hour connection at IAD (on United) for 11.5 hours, or do you want to drive 4 hours to IAD? I'm in a similar situation where I live - I do have 2 non-stops to Europe, but not the Med, but they are at a premium price, so I just enjoy doing a connection somewhere for less money and I don't sweat the time it takes.

 

For your short land trip, did you look at the resorts in West Virginia like Greenbrier, or in PA like Omni Bedford Springs? A little closer and easy drives.

Edited May 7, 2017 by slidergirl

[goldgirl2]

It's Detroit.

 

I would add to this poster who has a timeshare, you can't tell how many seats have been sold on a flight looking at a seat map. And, February is beginning of spring break and mid-winter break, depending on your school and what part of the country you live in, so airfare prices to Florida are usually high then.

 

 

The seat map shows which seats are for sale, as in choose your seat when you buy your ticket. I think this is a good indication of the number of seats available on the flight. We have been traveling to Florida every September and February for many years. I have never seen airfare prices so high. The tickets to FLL (Ft Lauderdale) are over $500. I have never paid over $300. Just wondering what is causing this huge price increase??

[Globaliser]

The seat map shows which seats are for sale, as in choose your seat when you buy your ticket. I think this is a good indication of the number of seats available on the flight.

No, it is exactly as 6rugrats says: This can be a very poor indicator of the number of seats available on the flight. And it will become an even poorer indicator with the increase in the fare types on which you cannot choose a seat when you buy your ticket.

 

In particular, your first phrase shows a misconception: On a flight, no specific seats are for sale, and you are not buying a ticket for a specific seat. This is not like buying theatre tickets. All you have bought is a reservation for some seat on board the aircraft, to be allocated at the airline's discretion. Usually, when you pick a seat, all you do is make a request for that specific seat. Even if you pay to reserve a specific seat, you will see that the small print means that it remains a request that can be changed by the airline; it is almost always the case that the ultimate remedy is that the airline will give you back the money you paid for making the request.

 

We have been traveling to Florida every September and February for many years. I have never seen airfare prices so high. The tickets to FLL (Ft Lauderdale) are over $500. I have never paid over $300. Just wondering what is causing this huge price increase??

And how many years is that? Air fares have been insane for the last decade or so - insanely low, that is. Only now is there some semblance of them going back to something close to rational. The idea that you can fly over a thousand miles from Detroit to Fort Lauderale and over a thousand miles back again, and reliably expect the round-trip to cost you no more than $300, shows just how distorted expectations have become.

[Globaliser]

[Deleted - finger trouble, sorry.]

[waterbug123]

The seat map shows which seats are for sale, as in choose your seat when you buy your ticket.

 

Nope. The seat map shows which seats are available for YOU to request, but not necessarily how many have actually been sold. Ex. Let's say a plane has economy 100 seats. You go to book a ticket and it shows 40 of those seats available to you to choose. You assume 60 tickets have been sold, but the number may actually be much higher.... there may be people who simply haven't selected a seat yet, or who purchased a class of ticket that doesn't allow advance seat selection and they will have a seat assigned at the time of boarding. Conversely, there may be seats showing unavailable and you assume they've been sold, but it may be that only elite level frequent flyers are allowed to choose those "preferred" seats in advance. (ex. exit row, aisle/window in certain rows, bulkhead seats etc.). So I might go to book a ticket at the same time, on the exact same flight, and be shown a very different seat map than you are shown.

[bananawindnj]

No, it is exactly as 6rugrats says: This can be a very poor indicator of the number of seats available on the flight. And it will become an even poorer indicator with the increase in the fare types on which you cannot choose a seat when you buy your ticket.

 

In particular, your first phrase shows a misconception: On a flight, no specific seats are for sale, and you are not buying a ticket for a specific seat. This is not like buying theatre tickets. All you have bought is a reservation for some seat on board the aircraft, to be allocated at the airline's discretion. Usually, when you pick a seat, all you do is make a request for that specific seat. Even if you pay to reserve a specific seat, you will see that the small print means that it remains a request that can be changed by the airline; it is almost always the case that the ultimate remedy is that the airline will give you back the money you paid for making the request.

 

And how many years is that? Air fares have been insane for the last decade or so - insanely low, that is. Only now is there some semblance of them going back to something close to rational. The idea that you can fly over a thousand miles from Detroit to Fort Lauderale and over a thousand miles back again, and reliably expect the round-trip to cost you no more than $300, shows just how distorted expectations have become.

 

 

Sorry, I agree with goldgirl

Prices have gone up in Jan and Feb, to Florida.from past years.

 

 

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[tdiazfarmer]

My concern and why I have to pay for 1st or preferred class is we are traveling with our 12 year old granddaughter and I am not inclined to not have her sitting with us. Most airlines with seat charts never show three together[emoji53]

 

 

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[FlyerTalker]

My concern and why I have to pay for 1st or preferred class is we are traveling with our 12 year old granddaughter and I am not inclined to not have her sitting with us. Most airlines with seat charts never show three together

 

OMG!!!

 

Have you ever considered the possible arrangement of one adult next to the grandchild and the other nearby? Or does she require two adults to be managed?

[GeezerCouple]

OMG!!!

 

Have you ever considered the possible arrangement of one adult next to the grandchild and the other nearby? Or does she require two adults to be managed?

 

If you are able to put the extra adult in an aisle or window seat (NOT a middle), chances are probably pretty good that the person would swap once on board.

[Globaliser]

Sorry, I agree with goldgirl

Prices have gone up in Jan and Feb, to Florida.from past years.

Er, the point of the post was that fares appear to be rising back towards more sensible, rational and sustainable levels from the madness of much of the past decade.

[Globaliser]

My concern and why I have to pay for 1st or preferred class is we are traveling with our 12 year old granddaughter and I am not inclined to not have her sitting with us.

OMG!!!

 

Have you ever considered the possible arrangement of one adult next to the grandchild and the other nearby? Or does she require two adults to be managed?

In any event, 12 is "adult" in the airline industry. 12-year olds can and frequently fly unaccompanied and with no special arrangements, sometimes half way across the world. That's the age at which I started regularly flying unaccompanied. They're old enough to look after themselves for the entire process starting with getting themselves to the airport and ending with getting to their final destination after arriving at the other end, never mind just when on board the aircraft.

 

Having said that, first class is nice. :)

[hapster85]

We talked about doing a European cruise for our 25th anniversary, but the higher airfares prompted us to rethink that. So yes, high airfare did affect our cruise plans. We still cruised, just not to Europe. We'll make it. It's just a question of when.

[spookyfudge]

With the high cost of flying we have to scale back are cruising. We are not fortunate to live close to ports so we have to fly. While planning a cruise out of Miami area the costs of flight's are as much as the cruise itself. We can sometimes drive to the port but it's a 1000 miles and sometimes we don't have the time to drive. The only flight choices we have are very limited and with very few choices of airlines I feel we have only a few options. I heard this morning on the news that the cost of flying is going up because the fear of flying outside of the US is increasing so that the cost has to be made up in the US.

Thank's for listening to my Tuesday morning rant.

J.

 

Yes

[iancal]

We are actually the opposite. We find that air to Europe from our locations. is less expensive than in the past. We keep seeing so many great offers going by. We find that cruises in Europe, Med specifically, are much more expensive. So we tend to fly, but substitute independent land travel for cruises.

[4774Papa]

We live in South Georgia and usually fly out of Jacksonville, FL.

I haven't noticed any significant changes in airfares. Fares are highly dependent on where you originate and were you are flying as well as timing.

 

Air fares can change, my Daughter and her family got a fantastic deal on fares from Boston to Hamburg, Germany, while my Son was going on the same cruise from Atlanta, waited too long to buy his ticket and had to pay double pp what she did.

[slidergirl]

I was just looking for airfare for a quick 2-day getaway for myself. The destinations I look at are all within a 2 hour flight/13 hour drive. I looked at my usual airline and the RT fare was about $515. I decided to do what I never do and look at WN - it was about $675 for the exact same route. I knew I would be paying a premium for a last-minute booking, but WN was really milking it. I'm going to rent a car and drive instead to one of the locations that are within a 6 hour drive...

[FlyerTalker]

I looked at my usual airline and the RT fare was about $515. I decided to do what I never do and look at WN - it was about $675 for the exact same route. I knew I would be paying a premium for a last-minute booking, but WN was really milking it.

 

You mean that....<gasp>.....Southwest WASN'T the cheapest price available??

 

I thought that Southwest was ALWAYS the cheapest. That what I was told. That's what internet posters said was true.

 

Pardon me while I go off into the corner and contemplate how the "truths" of my world turn out to be nothing but illusions.

 

I'll be the one sitting there with the Canyon Blue Kool-Aid.

 

 

;)

[goldgirl2]

No, it is exactly as 6rugrats says: This can be a very poor indicator of the number of seats available on the flight. And it will become an even poorer indicator with the increase in the fare types on which you cannot choose a seat when you buy your ticket.

 

In particular, your first phrase shows a misconception: On a flight, no specific seats are for sale, and you are not buying a ticket for a specific seat. This is not like buying theatre tickets. All you have bought is a reservation for some seat on board the aircraft, to be allocated at the airline's discretion. Usually, when you pick a seat, all you do is make a request for that specific seat. Even if you pay to reserve a specific seat, you will see that the small print means that it remains a request that can be changed by the airline; it is almost always the case that the ultimate remedy is that the airline will give you back the money you paid for making the request.

 

And how many years is that? Air fares have been insane for the last decade or so - insanely low, that is. Only now is there some semblance of them going back to something close to rational. The idea that you can fly over a thousand miles from Detroit to Fort Lauderale and over a thousand miles back again, and reliably expect the round-trip to cost you no more than $300, shows just how distorted expectations have become.

 

 

Excuse me, my expectations are not distorted. Perhaps you don't know everything. First, On Delta I always choose my seat and I have always sat in the seat I chose when I purchased my ticket so, yes, the plane only has a few seats that have been assigned. Second, a price jump of $200 a ticket is a bit much. Gas prices have not gone up significantly in the last year.

How many years you asked??? About 10. I fly enough that I have actually used miles for the last two years but I do know what the ticket prices were. My daughter is studying to be a classical musician with professionals all over the country. I have put her on about 20 flights in the last two years. I'm not new to this. It's simple. Airfare with Delta has hit an all time high. Perhaps not in London. I'm speaking of the United States.

[waterbug123]

Getting to sit in the seat you chose is no indication that when you bought your ticket there were other tickets sold with seats not assigned. Maybe you misunderstood the prior explanation about seat "requests." Yes, seat choices are actually requests but usually you do get to sit where you chose. But there still may have been 50 other tickets sold but seats not assigned, and they will not routinely move you to give those folks a seat. Occasionally perhaps, but not as a general rule. So AGAIN....looking at available seats on a seat map does NOT indicate how many tickets have been sold. Theoretically, the plane could be nearly sold out yet still show a bunch of empty seats because pax haven't been assigned a particular one yet.

[Globaliser]

First, On Delta I always choose my seat and I have always sat in the seat I chose when I purchased my ticket so, yes, the plane only has a few seats that have been assigned.

But you're missing the point here. The number of physical seats allocated on a particular flight does not necessarily have any real relationship to the number of reservations taken by the airline for that flight.

 

The most obvious and easy-to-understand example is the frequent scenario of an overbooked flight. Even if every single physical seat is allocated, the airline has taken more reservations for that flight than the number of physical seat allocations. The same can apply to flights that are not overbooked. That is why looking at a seat map for a future flight is not a good way of knowing how heavily booked (ie how many reservations have been taken by the airline) for that flight.

 

 

How many years you asked??? About 10. I fly enough that I have actually used miles for the last two years but I do know what the ticket prices were. My daughter is studying to be a classical musician with professionals all over the country. I have put her on about 20 flights in the last two years. I'm not new to this

But if you've been flying regularly only for the last 10 years, then perhaps you don't have the historical perspective on just how low air fares have been during much of that period, and how and why they may simply be returning to more rational levels now.

[fbgd]

Second, a price jump of $200 a ticket is a bit much. Gas prices have not gone up significantly in the last year.

 

The price of oil has very little to do with ticket prices. Besides you can't compare one data point with another from a year ago with another this year (when airlines offer a huge variety of fares and availability at different price points) and claim fares are up by $200.

 

Airlines charge what people will pay, the goal being that if there are 150 seats onboard they want to sell it for the 150 highest prices people are willing to pay to fly on that aircraft. Price isn't driven by what an airline charges to cover the operating costs which makes sense. If you make widgets for $5 each, why would you sell them for $10 if people are willing to spend $25 on them?

[pinotlover]

I agree with Globalizer on the pricing issue. Like many businesses, the airlines were hit hard after the 07/08 financial crisis. Combating a duel attack of low cost Airlines and extreme price cutting by some in an (unsuccessful) attempt to survive, airfares dropped to unsubstainable levels. The major airlines were hemorrhaging money. We now have had consolidation in the industry, both Continental and US Air are gone, and ridership is again rising. Fares will rise back to levels where the airlines will again be profitable. As the majors raise their prices, the "low cost" airlines will have some freedom to do so likewise. Other than some highly competitive, high volume routes, ticket prices have been, and should continue to, rise over the next year plus, imo. Future low cost tickets, such as E tickets, will be written on terms highly advantageous to the airlines i.e., no prior seat selection, last to board, first to bump. Those ticket holders won't actually be bumped from overbooked flights in that they will never receive a boarding pass from which to be bumped! They'll just be put on a different flight.

[slidergirl]

You mean that....<gasp>.....Southwest WASN'T the cheapest price available??

 

I thought that Southwest was ALWAYS the cheapest. That what I was told. That's what internet posters said was true.

 

Pardon me while I go off into the corner and contemplate how the "truths" of my world turn out to be nothing but illusions.

 

I'll be the one sitting there with the Canyon Blue Kool-Aid.

 

 

;)

 

I know. I was absolutely desperate to try to get away, so I tried the Greyhound of the Skies. So glad that it was more expensive - I knew that the WN "experience" is not one that I want to try again. Did it years ago for another one of those short hoppers - I had a "B" boarding card and ended up in a middle seat because the flight came from another destination. And, the flight was full of families on the way to a Magical Place for a weekend who seemed to bring all their worldly possessions onboard and try to stuff in the overheads - noisiest flight I ever experienced. And, I don't particularly appreciate FAs who believe they are comedians and make every announcement a cheesy attempt to be funny. I'll leave WN to the Kettles...

[Alaskanb]

I know. I was absolutely desperate to try to get away, so I tried the Greyhound of the Skies. So glad that it was more expensive - I knew that the WN "experience" is not one that I want to try again. Did it years ago for another one of those short hoppers - I had a "B" boarding card and ended up in a middle seat because the flight came from another destination. And, the flight was full of families on the way to a Magical Place for a weekend who seemed to bring all their worldly possessions onboard and try to stuff in the overheads - noisiest flight I ever experienced. And, I don't particularly appreciate FAs who believe they are comedians and make every announcement a cheesy attempt to be funny. I'll leave WN to the Kettles...

I love the middle seats on Southwest -- my legs fit perfectly.