Short Shore Stays

[bobpell]

Perusing our upcoming much anticipated fall Sunfarer cruise I observe we dock at Cartagena, Columbia, a container port at 7am and leave at 1pm.

The day prior to that is at sea.

the day prior to that we are in Curacao.

I muse over why the short stay in Columbia and why not a longer, more colorful sojourn in Curacao?

Anyone else have thoughts on too short a docking on their cruises?

A further addendum to my musings, on the same cruise we coast into Colon, Panama at 3pm and launch back out 8pm hardly enough time to buy a hat!!

Happy Cruise Year everyone

Bob.

[Cruzin Terri]

One of the reasons we began sailing with other lines, especially in Europe.

Terri

[Homosassa]

The stop at Colon, Panama is only to pick up passengers returning to the ship from excursions. The big event that day is the Panama Canal partial transit.

 

Colon is an where area that you will be warned not to go beyond the immediate dock area. There are shops there; most sell tacky junk.

 

Did you check out the itinerary before booking? Why are the port times coming as a big surprise at this point in the game?

[kazu]

When we were in Cartagena on our Panama cruise, the port time was the same and that was a couple of years ago.

 

To be honest, this worked out well for us as Cartagena gets VERY hot. We were able to see things in the port (on a private tour) while it was cooler, most of the time.

 

By the time we were ready to board, it was very hot and I was glad that we arrived so early in the morning.

[Kamloops50]

Columbia stop is usually to top off the ships fuel tanks. Ships fuel is significantly cheaper in Columbia.

[CruiserBruce]

The timing in Cartagena has to do with the timing in the Canal. The 3pm docking in Colon has to do with coming out of the Canal and picking up pax who do shore excursions off the ship in Gatun Lake.

 

There is a reason. It is not a conspiracy.

[CruiserBruce]

Columbia stop is usually to top off the ships fuel tanks. Ships fuel is significantly cheaper in Columbia.

 

The stop in Cartagena on full transits has to do with the requirement for distant port stops. Yes, fuel is reported to be cheaper there. But the "distant foreign port" issue is law.

[chengkp75]

Slightly off topic, and I apologize, but need to set some facts straight. Despite the historic low price of gasoline in Colombia (in the past it was a few cents per gallon, it is currently $2.88 US/gal), the price of bunker fuel in Cartagena is significantly above the world average ($414US/mt vs. $390US/mt world average, or 6% higher), it is also higher than the US average ($414 vs. $406).

 

The departure time from Cartagena is based on the transit time slot the ship has booked for the Canal transit, and the departure time from Colon is based on return transit and picking up guests from the excursions, as CruiserBruce has said.

 

As to the previous stop in Curacao, more time on the ship (sea day) means increased revenue (more time that you will spend for onboard revenue) and decreased cost (less fuel for the leisurely steaming from Curacao to Cartagena).

[sail7seas]

Guest enjoyment and pleasing them is bottom of tthe list of priority IMMO

 

 

" Good Enoough" simply is NOT Good Enough"

I am at a stage of my life i should have a number of cruises booked to look forward to but I DO not. There is nothing to stop me from sailing months a year bu tI ic an't sem to 'want ' to. I should be booking Grand voyagages or even WC, but, NO, I am not. Veendam's cruise was so lacking and disappointing imo. I HAVE SAILED THAT SHIP A NUMb ER OF TTIMES and know the cruise they can provide and have in he past t. but from top management down , they are not getting it near to right, iMOand they don't seem to care. I was once one of their most loyal repeaters. That was when things were quite different and there was an excitement t to give cruisers a wonderful cruis e 'Good enough' seeems to be the theme. Well, it wasn't good enough to get some of us to book again soon.

Edited January 2, 2018 by sail7seas

[chengkp75]

I May be becoming a cynical c ruiser b ut for just about any ques tion we have the answer comes down to saving mone y as the answer. It seems to always be about a way to spend less. Cruisers enjoyment seems to be tumbling to the bot tom of the list of what is important. Saving money is what reigns supreme.

 

Of course saving money is what it is all about. As long as the cruise line's business model is to keep prices as low as possible to entice new cruisers, costs are the only control on profit, and let's face it, profit is what a business is all about.

[sail7seas]

Of course saving money is what it is all about. As long as the cruise line's business model is to keep prices as low as possible to entice new cruisers, costs are the only control on profit, and let's face it, profit is what a business is all about.

 

 

sorry duplicate

Edited January 2, 2018 by sail7seas

[sail7seas]

Of course saving money is what it is all about. As long as the cruise line's business model is to keep prices as low as possible to entice new cruisers, costs are the only control on profit, and let's face it, profit is what a business is all about.

 

 

In the process they will lose a number of cruisers who until tthings declinedc on board were willing tto pay far more than the lowest possible price Ifd they give the 'spendders' a produc t they wantt to spend money on, there are many who will ontinue to spend. IF they make it an inferior prodduct, those who spent will erject the inferior product and not book.

 

IF HAL only wants those who pay just the lowest possible price, that is what they have until those guests decide they are getting no value for t heir money and they drift away.. By that time the product has a bad reputation, cannot attracct back the spenidng g uests who have moved along and who will fill all those cab ins?

 

 

 

When a discretionary spending product declines to a low level, it is a hard climb back and verry coslty. IF at all possible.

 

By then, where are their top Officers? Where did the best HotelDirecrors, Captains etc go? How longg will hey put up with the strangle hold on the wallet and 'take the v blame' ffor all the xomplaints?

Edited January 2, 2018 by sail7seas

[chengkp75]

In the process they will lose a number of cruisers who until tthings declinedc on board were willing tto pay far more than the lowest possible price Ifd they give the 'spendders' a produc t they wantt to spend money on, there are many who will xontinue to spend. IF they make it an inferior prodduct, those who spent will erject the inferior product and not book.

 

IF HAL only wants those who pay just the lowest possible price, that is what they have until those guests decide they are getting no value for t heir money and they drift away.. By that time the product has a bad reputation, cannot attracct back the spenidng g uests who have movde along and who will fill all those cab ins?

 

 

 

When adisposable income product declines to a low level, it is a hard climb back and verry coslty. IF at all possible.

 

By hen, where are their top Officers? Whre did the bes HotelDirecrors, Captains etc go? How longg will hey putrtt up with the strangle hold on the wallet and 'take the v blame' ffor all the cxomplaints?

 

But, "in the old days", cruising was still priced low, even though "standards" may have been higher. That was HAL's business model then, and it is their business model now. If HAL models show that they cannot fill a ship with enough people willing to pay far more than the current low prices, then they will just say "adieu" to those customers, because they no longer fit the business model. They will concede the higher priced, higher "standards" customers to the luxury market. You may consider that HAL is going to get a "bad reputation", but that would only be amongst the few who are looking to pay more for old "standards", and again, that just doesn't fit the business model. Now, if HAL wants to change their business model, then they might be able to fill their ships with a different demographic, but I doubt it, because if they could, they would.

 

Look back at your old cruise prices, adjust them for inflation, and you will see you've priced yourself into the luxury or at least the high-end lines, which typically have the "standards" of the old days. And, are these high-end and luxury lines expanding more than the mass-market lines to take up the "increase" of cruisers looking for the "old standards" no matter the cost? Nope, virtually the same increase in capacity percentage.

 

As to where have all the top officers gone? With the steady year after year increase in the size of the hospitality market, HD's can find better paying jobs ashore (where they are not away from home 6 months a year), and Captains are finding that they can make as much or more on cargo ships without the headaches of passengers, or even better paying jobs ashore (again without the disruption of being at sea). There is a worldwide shortage of mariners, has been for over a decade. Why? Because it doesn't pay the premium wage that it used to over a shore job, and that goes for any cruise line, even the most expensive.

[sail7seas]

But, "in the old days", cruising was still priced low, even though "standards" may have been higher. That was HAL's business model then, and it is their business model now. If HAL models show that they cannot fill a ship with enough people willing to pay far more than the current low prices, then they will just say "adieu" to those customers, because they no longer fit the business model. They will concede the higher priced, higher "standards" customers to the luxury market. You may consider that HAL is going to get a "bad reputation", but that would only be amongst the few who are looking to pay more for old "standards", and again, that just doesn't fit the business model. Now, if HAL wants to change their business model, then they might be able to fill their ships with a different demographic, but I doubt it, because if they could, they would.

 

Look back at your old cruise prices, adjust them for inflation, and you will see you've priced yourself into the luxury or at least the high-end lines, which typically have the "standards" of the old days. And, are these high-end and luxury lines expanding more than the mass-market lines to take up the "increase" of cruisers looking for the "old standards" no matter the cost? Nope, virtually the same increase in capacity percentage.

 

As to where have all the top officers gone? With the steady year after year increase in the size of the hospitality market, HD's can find better paying jobs ashore (where they are not away from home 6 months a year), and Captains are finding that they can make as much or more on cargo ships without the headaches of passengers, or even better paying jobs ashore (again without the disruption of being at sea). There is a worldwide shortage of mariners, has been for over a decade. Why? Because it doesn't pay the premium wage that it used to over a shore job, and that goes for any cruise line, even the most expensive.

 

 

I fully agee about the top hottel directors and Captains.............. they have good and in some cases, great options,.

 

For what I pay I could sail any ccruise line but there is a listt of some I won't sail and Oceania , , cunard , aand SilverSaa , Seabourn are on that lis.t

 

What the cruiselines seeem tto be doing is chiseling themsellves out of existence at a slow but sue rate

 

Those willing to spend will spend more in deluxe , luxury hotels and resorrts in cities as wsell as warm weather locales. LONG before we ever cruised, we went to the Caribbean every winter to great re sorts and loved them. Wha's not to love about so many of them? :D

 

We loved th resorts in Marbella and near Llisbon..............

Edited January 2, 2018 by sail7seas

[chengkp75]

 

What the cruiselines seeem tto be doing is chiseling themsellves out of existence at a slow but sue rate

 

We can agree to disagree here, since the cruise lines, including HAL, show no signs of running seriously under capacity, nor of losing profits and earnings, so I don't see them going out of existence anytime soon.

[bobpell]

No I am not surprised at the short time ashore at certain stops on the Sunfarer as we have partaken in this voyage years ago.

Thanks for the explanation on fuel savings and picking up excursion people, that explains the times.

Has anyone stopped at other locals for a short time while cruising?

Thanks

Bob

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

There is always a reason. Just not always explained 😀

[Cruzin Terri]

No I am not surprised at the short time ashore at certain stops on the Sunfarer as we have partaken in this voyage years ago.

Thanks for the explanation on fuel savings and picking up excursion people, that explains the times.

Has anyone stopped at other locals for a short time while cruising?

Thanks

Bob

I have seen the port times shortened on the European cruises as well. We have done the Mediterranean a number of time. The distance between the ports has not changed but the time in the same ports in the same order sure has. It has annoyed us enough to decide on other cruise lines to sail the European ports.

Terri

[Aquahound]

We can agree to disagree here, since the cruise lines, including HAL, show no signs of running seriously under capacity, nor of losing profits and earnings, so I don't see them going out of existence anytime soon.

 

I agree (with you). I can see them losing some old time cruisers, but that's a good thing for business. The new cruiser is where the money is, and there is no shortage of them.

[sail7seas]

Some of the 'new cruisers' balk at paying for a passport, how much do you think some of them will spend on excursions and photos? they all have phones with which gto ggtkes alltg he family photos they wanat they won't be paying lots of money to buy the ship's photos. They won't be rushing to art auctions. :) How many will be buying pricey jewelry in the shops on board? If on board spending is the 'money maker,,,,,,,,, well, Think they will be f illing Pinnacle's reservation book?

 

 

Then there is the question of 'over and abov e tipping. :) Not to mention those that remove hotel service charge from their account. :(

Edited January 2, 2018 by sail7seas

[Aquahound]

Some of the 'new cruisers' balk at paying for a passport, how much do you think some of them will spend on excursions and photos? they all have phones with which gto ggtkes alltg he family photos they wanat they won't be paying lots of money to buy the ship's photos. They won't be rushing to art auctions. :) How many will be buying pricey jewelry in the shops on board? If on board spending is the 'money maker,,,,,,,,, well, Think they will be f illing Pinnacle's reservation book?

 

 

Then there is the question of 'over and abov e tipping. :) Not to mention those that remove hotel service charge from their account. :(

 

Everything you mentioned can be said of all guests, whether new or loyalists. Lord knows, those discussions have been going on for years on CC.

 

As a whole, new cruisers tend to spend more on board than frequent cruisers. Regulars are still a part of the model, but are not nearly as profitable as new cruisers. A cruise line would rather have a ship full of new spenders who are more likely to spend money on frivolous stuff than a ship full of people who are owed freebies due to status.

 

And yes, on-board spending is the money maker. This was well covered by a show called "Cruise Inc: Big Money on the High Seas."

[igraf]

I believe that new cruisers would be more likely to purchase HAL photos and excursions on a shorter cruise, as opposed to someone like me who has done Alaska and Mexico several times each.

 

igraf

 

 

 

Some of the 'new cruisers' balk at paying for a passport, how much do you think some of them will spend on excursions and photos? they all have phones with which gto ggtkes alltg he family photos they wanat they won't be paying lots of money to buy the ship's photos. They won't be rushing to art auctions. :) How many will be buying pricey jewelry in the shops on board? If on board spending is the 'money maker,,,,,,,,, well, Think they will be f illing Pinnacle's reservation book?

 

 

Then there is the question of 'over and abov e tipping. :) Not to mention those that remove hotel service charge from their account. :(

[Krazy Kruizers]

No I am not surprised at the short time ashore at certain stops on the Sunfarer as we have partaken in this voyage years ago.

Thanks for the explanation on fuel savings and picking up excursion people, that explains the times.

Has anyone stopped at other locals for a short time while cruising?

Thanks

Bob

 

 

HMC -- used to be there from 8 AM to 4 PM -- now we leave around 1 or 2.

Ketchikan -- used to be there from 8 AM to 5 or 6 PM -- now leave at 1 or 2 PM.

I know there are many other ports with shortened times.

[sail7seas]

HMC -- used to be there from 8 AM to 4 PM -- now we leave around 1 or 2.

Ketchikan -- used to be there from 8 AM to 5 or 6 PM -- now leave at 1 or 2 PM.

I know there are many other ports with shortened times.

 

 

 

We did the Sunfarer and Wayfarer cruises ovver and over again. We liked those 10 day itineraries. They were fun cruises. We always added some pre cruise and post cruise stays of multiple days in FLL so made for a nice vacation. :)

[VennDiagram]

I agree (with you). I can see them losing some old time cruisers, but that's a good thing for business. The new cruiser is where the money is, and there is no shortage of them.

 

It is good to hear some positives about new and newish cruisers, thank you! I wonder if some posters on this thread have any idea how blatantly they are revealing their personal biases/preconceived notions/prejudices.