Should RCI follow Delta Airlines rules on service animals?

[Mikew0805]

Service animals are trained to perform specific task or tasks to help the owner. If it’s the mere presence of the animal that gives the support, then it’s not a true service animal, and should be banned. I think HIPAA or ADA or whatever regulations should be changed to allow businesses to inquire about the functions of the animals they are allowing into their establishments.

 

Ummm no they should not be changed. No one should have to give up their privacy just because you or anyone else thinks that someone may be abusing this or that. Get over it. Move on with your life, and ignore that someone has an animal on board and that you cannot fathom the reason why they need it.

[A&L_Ont]

Ummm no they should not be changed. No one should have to give up their privacy just because you or anyone else thinks that someone may be abusing this or that. Get over it. Move on with your life, and ignore that someone has an animal on board and that you cannot fathom the reason why they need it.

 

I’m totally bringing my service pot belly pig next cruise. I’m off to print the papers on-line now. ;)

[Mikew0805]

I’m totally bringing my service pot belly pig next cruise. I’m off to print the papers on-line now. ;)

 

Enjoy...

[A&L_Ont]

Enjoy...

 

For sure. I think he will enjoy the buffet and MDR. Oops, I mean my anxiety over crowds will be gone.:confused:;):D

[Ocean Boy]

For sure. I think he will enjoy the buffet and MDR. Oops, I mean my anxiety over crowds will be gone.:confused:;):D

The thoughts of no crowds sounds awesome. I may have to hang out with you a lot more than you would prefer.

[A&L_Ont]

The thoughts of no crowds sounds awesome. I may have to hang out with you a lot more than you would prefer.

 

No worries OB. You can hang all day.

 

Word of advice though, don’t stand behind the pig. When the coughs, he occasionally suffers with/from the “twerky plaster”.:eek: You might need to bring a comfort animal, to reduce your anxiety of being in his range of fire.

 

That being said we should be able to get front row seating at the VIP shows, and we have an four legged fire extinguisher for anything that catches fire on the balcony.

 

It’s all good.

[ReneeFLL]

As far as we are concerned, other than for the blind, all dogs should be banned everywhere and go back to the days when that happened. To us the most disgusting examples of abuse is the placement of dogs in the upper part of the shopping carts.

There are plenty of other people who need service dogs (not emotional support dogs). These should not only be limited to the blind. There are people who need dogs to retrieve things for them, people with diagnosed ptsd, some illness that can come on and the dog can smell? that it is about to happen (seizure, etc.) and many other things. It would really be nice if the cruise lines would take a stand on the "emotional support" pets. One of these days someone is going to get bit and they will be sued. Why tempt it?

[ReneeFLL]

I haven't flown delta in a decade BUT when I book airfare for my Nov Cruise I WILL DEFINITELY look at delta First, because of their new policy. Kudos delta and the same would go for ANY cruise who enforced service animal Rules, not just made up certificates on the internet

 

I would let them know you are going to consider them because they are taking a stand on this problem. I'm hoping others do to.

[Jammu2]

Short answer: yes.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Forums mobile app

[Dennis#1]

Short answer: yes.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Forums mobile app

 

Agree. To much abuse currently exists.

[dswallow]

RCL can't even manage to enforce a dress code as simple as no shorts in the dining room during dinnertime. Does anyone really believe they could enforce rules about service animals?

[mollyeilis]

A poorly written article plus people’s lack of understanding of service animals vs emotional

support animals are making my eyes cross.

 

All Delta did is add an earlier timeframe of giving the animals medical records and a form to fill out *for the ESA only* stating that they can behave. This isn’t some sweeping reform.

 

Those people who legitimately require the assistance of a service or comfort animal should have no difficulty obtaining the required documentation. Should eliminate most false claims of people who just want to bring their untrained animals with them when they travel.

 

 

Nothing asks to know if they are trained. Just that they can behave. That’s it.

 

Delta's new rules seem very fair!

 

 

Delta’s new rules are hardly anything at all lol.

 

Fallicy in the article - blood sugar alert dogs are trained service animals, not comfort animals. As for other service dogs, they are working not eating or wandering around in public spaces. Often takes years of waiting and plenty of money to obtain a trained dog which may be lifesaving to people with Type 1 diabetes.

 

 

Agree that the article was wrong. Shocking, giving that it’s the hard hitting usatoday.

 

But while some people have to wait for a service dog that can detect glucose changes, sometimes people luck into such dogs. I met a family who randomly found out that two of their three dogs can detect their grown son’s type 1 swings. So those two are service dogs for their son. The third is a pet.

 

It may also help physicians too. I am very tired of people coming into the office asking how to get their (insert the animal of your choice here) designated as an emotional support animal.

 

 

It’s going to increase that request for ESAs.

 

However if someone is allergic to dogs, to bad for you.

 

 

As an allergic person I’m ok with it.

 

Couldn't just anybody print and sign these forms?

 

 

Yep. Pretty much.

 

I have seen this on Royal Caribbean as well as another line. The "service" animal was supposedly for the husband's diabetes, but was never with the husband. The wife had the dog in a stroller, dressed in clothes and sun glasses along with a hat. The dog sat at the table (a 10 top) and ate from here plate, her fork and then the wife ate from the plate and same fork. When some of her table mates complained, they were ridiculed as it was posted on another site. This was on the other line, not Royal Caribbean.

 

 

 

I did see this once on a cruise on Freedom as I was walking to my table for dinner. I think Florida has a lot of people who have purchased the certificates online that state the animal is a support or service animal. I believe it is now illegal to do so, but as I no longer live in FL, I am not sure.

 

 

The only problem with the dog you described is that it wasn’t with the diabetic. There are no rules against dressing a service dog.

 

There are no certificates needed for service animals so it doesn’t matter if it’s illegal or not, it’s not a thing that is needed or regulated.

 

Would it be legal to require liability insurance for ALL dogs that travel commercially? Maybe word the policy for ALL dogs, but clearly since only service animals are allowed on board, it would affect them. It would be perhaps deter the internet fakes from abusing if they had to pay a little money. Case in point would be the dogs staying with the owner to avoid paying the kennel fee.

 

 

Service animals AND emotional support animals are allowed onboard. Those are two separate “classes”.

 

A service animal is considered to be another member of the family. It’s not considered to be an animal. It is held to the same standard as your uncle Jim traveling or living with you. You don’t have to have extra insurance on your uncle. But if he acts up enough, he can get kicked off the plane or out of your apartment.

 

Not sure about ESAs.

 

I haven't flown delta in a decade BUT when I book airfare for my Nov Cruise I WILL DEFINITELY look at delta First, because of their new policy. Kudos delta and the same would go for ANY cruise who enforced service animal Rules, not just made up certificates on the internet

 

 

You need to look at the truth of what Delta is actually requiring that’s different from before.

 

Wow, are you letting yourself in for legal action when you "deprive" the person of their ESA by moving it to a kennel, where it cannot perform the "life saving" function it is supposed to do.

 

 

An ESA provides emotional support only. It’s there to be patted or just be present for the person.

 

A Service Animal is another thing entirely. Those are the ones that perform life saving actions. Getting blind people across the street, alarming a person to an impending seizure so they can get to a safe place. Etc.

 

I have no problem with legitimate service dogs. Sailed with two of them several years ago - German Shepherd and a Lab. Saw them in elevators and around the ship. Their table in the MDR was next to ours and they sat quietly under the table. You wouldn’t even know they were there. True service dogs.

 

 

 

What burns my butt are the little faux service dogs that get to ride free in their owners lap while my show cats get to ride under the seat and count as my carryon while I get to pay $250 for this privilege.

 

 

Little dogs can be 100% bonafide service animals. You’re unlikely to see an applehead chihuahua acting as a seeing eye dog, but they could detect blood sugar drops as you sleep and wake you up, or they could perform a task specifically done to help allay a panic attack (the latter is different from an ESA whose mere presence is comforting).

 

And any questionable doctor can write a letter as well!

 

 

Yep.

 

Reading thru’ this thread I notice that service animals are sometimes mixed up with ESAs. My understanding is that a true, trained service animal will NOT be dressed up in clothes, be pushed in a stroller, be sitting on the owner’s lap in the dining room, be fed from the owner’s plate. A true service animal, no matter what the service is, will know it’s place and will not cause any inconvenience to others. On a plane that animal will not be sitting on a seat, walking around the plane or interacting with any other passengers. In stores, service animals won’t be sitting in a grocery cart.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes service animals at being mixed up.

 

But being in clothes or a stroller or the cart seat are not the differences.

 

The difference is that a SA performs a task. An ESA is just there.

 

The ADA says that *generally* SAs aren’t supposed to be in the shopping cart. That

Doesn’t state *never*.

 

I absolutely agree with Delta.

 

I have NO problem with people needing actual service dogs. But those who get fake certificates, in my opinion, are slapping the faces of those who actually need these service dogs.

 

 

 

Since there’s no real certificate, there’s really no such thing as a fake certificate. :) There is no nationally recognized “service animal” certificate out there, nor is it an accepted thing.

 

Exactly. This seems like a ploy by Delta so that they can have an out in case one of these animals bites somebody or causes some other problem.

 

 

No doubt.

 

 

 

On an American Airline flight last year, there was a couple that had a monkey they brought aboard the airplane. They claimed it was a service animal. This was a new one for us.[\QUOTE]

 

Last year the new definition of a SA was already in place, and that doesn’t include a monkey. The most the monkey could have been legally was an ESA.

 

 

 

I just printed out my hospital's new policy on service animals to review with staff. It only allows for dogs and miniature horses. I had to google service horses and it's legit, so I thought I would bring a miniature horse on my next cruise to see if I can get away with it. ;p

 

 

 

BTW, due to HIPAA, we are barred from asking for details regarding a person's disability and their need for a service animal.

 

 

ADA narrowed down what can be a SA a couple years ago, and yep, it’s dogs and miniature horses. This isn’t your hospital’s policy, but the law.

 

HIPAA prevents you from talking about patients in identifiable ways and sharing info.

 

The ADA allows two questions for people with service animals:

 

1. Is the dog/miniature horse requires because of a disability?

 

2. What work or task has the dog/miniature horse been trained to do?

 

 

You are 100% allowed to ask those questions. Those are the ONLY questions you’re allowed to ask.

 

Then you have about zero understanding about what service dogs can be trained to do including sensing hypoglycemia in diabetics and the prodrome of an oncoming seizure in epileptics.

 

 

Agreed.

 

I’m totally bringing my service pot belly pig next cruise. I’m off to print the papers on-line now. ;)

 

 

That maybe can be an ESA, but it can’t be a Service Animal.

 

Should they also be changed to allow questioning as to what a person's medical conditions are or what renders them handicapped? Because to ask the purpose of the service animal will probably reveal the patrons issues, right? Or maybe you feel that in return for having an animal those folks must give up their right to privacy and confidentiality that everyone else enjoys?

 

 

The ADA allows two questions for people with service animals:

 

1. Is the dog/miniature horse requires because of a disability?

 

2. What work or task has the dog/miniature horse been trained to do?

 

Those are allowed. Absolutely. The ADA says so.

 

Just a note, but PTSD dogs are considered to be service animals and not ESA's, since they typically perform some action to help keep their owner from situations where the PTSD is triggered. Be it entering rooms before the owner (clearing the room), or nudging him/her away from crowds, there is some sort of action.

 

 

PTSD dogs *can* be considered SAs IF they have been trained to do a task. It’s not a blanket rule that they are SAs. If they’re mere presence is what comforts the person with PTSD, then that’s an ESA.

 

A year or so ago. We were on a RCI cruise and a blind person had a seeing eye dog with him in the dining room. This was a genuine service dog. Another cruiser walks in with a "service" dog. It promptly attacked the seeing eye dog.

 

The owner of the other dog was obviously lying about the dog being a "service" dog. Real service dogs are all trained to be non aggressive.

 

It's to easy to buy what you need to call it a service dog on Ebay. Royal should check each one and if they find it bogus put them and their owners off the ship.

 

 

It’s nice if a SA is trained to be non aggressive, but it’s not required. Ye dog being aggressive doesn’t prove it wasn’t a Service Animal.

 

This is the thing which I have always found confusing when I see the Emotional Support Animals onboard the ship:

 

Emotional Support Animals are for providing someone with emotional support during a difficult time.

 

Who the heck finds a luxury, all-inclusive cruise vacation to be something for which they would require 'emotional support' to get through?

 

And frankly, no one FORCES you to take a luxury, all-inclusive cruise vacation. Therefore there is absolutely no reason to require the 'emotional support' of an animal.

 

 

 

 

It’s not about “a difficult time” at all. They can comfort those with ptsd, severe anxiety, etc. such animals can help a person *get on that plane or cruise ship*.

 

I’m sure the ADA will have something to say about this new policy.

 

 

 

 

 

From what I’ve read it’s totally fine. Airlines aren’t governed by the ada, and neither are esas really.

[chengkp75]

 

 

 

The ADA says that *generally* SAs aren’t supposed to be in the shopping cart. That

Doesn’t state *never*.

 

 

Actually, the ADA says that service animals are allowed to be in two places, the floor, and in their owner's arms.

[momofmab]

I always wondered about this too...if traveling is truly torture, why put yourself through it (while paying a lot of money to do so)? Certainly a closed-in environment, such as a cruise ship or an airline isn't a good choice for someone who is anxious about being stuck in a small area or being around other people. There are numerous other vacation options where fido would be more than welcome. Camping, for example.

 

ESA's should be required to have the same training, certification and behavioral mannerisms as regular service dogs. If someone is found to have faked the paperwork, slap them with a huge fine.

 

 

This is the thing which I have always found confusing when I see the Emotional Support Animals onboard the ship:

Emotional Support Animals are for providing someone with emotional support during a difficult time.

Who the heck finds a luxury, all-inclusive cruise vacation to be something for which they would require 'emotional support' to get through?

And frankly, no one FORCES you to take a luxury, all-inclusive cruise vacation. Therefore there is absolutely no reason to require the 'emotional support' of an animal.

 

The flagrant abuse of this policy on board the ships really does get to me. As many others have rightly pointed out, there are REAL service animals who are trained and are absolutely 100% more than welcome on board ships, flights, in restaurants, etc etc. But it is common knowledge that such trained service animals should not be distracted from their duties while working. This means anytime they have their harness on, they are in 'work mode'. Everyday people will seldom see a service animal in 'rest' mode because this more often than not takes place at home.

 

When you see these 'emotional support animals' being dressed up, pushed around in strollers, and carried around on pillows -- I can guarantee you they are not genuine service animals. You also would not encourage other people to pet your working service animal as this is considered a distraction and could cause them to stop doing their essential duties. Yet I always see those with 'emotional support animals' (claiming they are service animals) on board the ship encouraging others to pet the animal etc etc.

 

There is absolutely a difference between service animals and emotional support animals, and service animals are not a problem at all whatsoever. But too many people are abusing the term 'emotional support animals' so they can bring their pet everywhere with them and I am very happy to hear that Delta is drawing a line in the sand and I encourage Royal Caribbean and other cruise lines to do the same!

 

As an aside, I have a friend who works in the airline industry and we joke about this scenario with him. He teases us that all we need to do is buy our cat a jazzy little vest that says 'emotional support cat' and we can bring him everywhere we want!!

[A&L_Ont]

United Airlines took a stance against a emotional support peacock recently. One day ESAs will have stricter guidelines and situations like this one should help that day to come sooner than later.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/01/30/woman-denied-emotional-support-peacock-on-united-flight.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

 

 

[DeputyDawg46]

Since I travel extensively with Delta over 100,000 Delta Miles each year, and am a D+ on RCI, I have never seen a “Service Dog” piss, crap, bite, bark, or smell. But I have seen a lot of alleged “Emotional Support Dogs” (ESD) do these things. I have complained to Delta many times and they have finally gotten the word. If the industry as a whole would endorse Delta’s policy, traveling would be a lot more enjoyable when it comes to animals. Sitting next to a stinking/barking dog from Dubai to Atlanta (16 hours) is not pleasant! Sitting next to your alleged ESD in the MDR while they whine, growl, slobber, and make noise eating your food, is not fine dining! Or in the cabin next door while you holler at them to shut up barking. When doctors and people who sign off on these required documents are subpoenaed to court, at their expense, due to a lawsuit due to dogs biting, etc., they’ll have 2nd thoughts on falsifying documents. Hopefully sooner, rather than later.

Edited January 30, 2018 by DeputyDawg46

[TiiiSailor]

I have been on flights where they announce that someone on board has a peanut allergy so they don't serve peanuts on that flight. They also ask others not to eat peanuts that they brought on with them. However if someone is allergic to dogs, to bad for you.

 

 

 

There have been people removed from flights, with a "emotional support" dog near them, due to stating they were allergic to dogs. The airline said they were possible medical emergency and couldn't allow them to fly.