Should RCI follow Delta Airlines rules on service animals?

[JTBCruiser]

OP, Yes.

[TickledBlue]

OP, Yes.

I honestly don't have much of an opinion on this subject but since I brought this whole thing up again, I guess I'll share some thoughts with respect to what I think cruise lines should do. I can't vouch for the legality of this so, maybe it's a no go from the start. I'm only talking about ESAs (not service animals) on cruise ships (I don't have any ideas for airplanes).

 

Allow ESAs on board with the signed consent from the owner that if the ESA misbehaves (this might be measured in the number of valid complaints, clean up actions required by crew members, biting or barking incidents, etc.), the ESA will be removed from the owner and placed in a on board kennel at the owner's expense (per diem cost). If the owner refuses to kennel the ESA, off they all go at the next port. The kennel cost would be significantly higher than a land based one just because cruise ship space is expensive. I believe Cunard has installed kennels at least one of their ships, albeit not for this reason.

 

I personally don't care if ESA is on board the ship as long as it doesn't interfere with my vacation in the same way that I didn't care when I saw an older gentleman carrying a small dog in the mall the other day. That dog was well-behaved and didn't interfere with my mall walk.

[Don Pedro]

I honestly don't have much of an opinion on this subject but since I brought this whole thing up again, I guess I'll share some thoughts with respect to what I think cruise lines should do. I can't vouch for the legality of this so, maybe it's a no go from the start. I'm only talking about ESAs (not service animals) on cruise ships (I don't have any ideas for airplanes).

 

Allow ESAs on board with the signed consent from the owner that if the ESA misbehaves (this might be measured in the number of valid complaints, clean up actions required by crew members, biting or barking incidents, etc.), the ESA will be removed from the owner and placed in a on board kennel at the owner's expense (per diem cost). If the owner refuses to kennel the ESA, off they all go at the next port. The kennel cost would be significantly higher than a land based one just because cruise ship space is expensive. I believe Cunard has installed kennels at least one of their ships, albeit not for this reason.

 

I personally don't care if ESA is on board the ship as long as it doesn't interfere with my vacation in the same way that I didn't care when I saw an older gentleman carrying a small dog in the mall the other day. That dog was well-behaved and didn't interfere with my mall walk.

 

Come on, you can't possibly think that a cruise line that refuses to inforce its MDR dress code because it is afraid to alienate anyone would do anything as severe as you suggest. Some folks would rather part with their first born rather than Fido.

[chengkp75]

I honestly don't have much of an opinion on this subject but since I brought this whole thing up again, I guess I'll share some thoughts with respect to what I think cruise lines should do. I can't vouch for the legality of this so, maybe it's a no go from the start. I'm only talking about ESAs (not service animals) on cruise ships (I don't have any ideas for airplanes).

 

Allow ESAs on board with the signed consent from the owner that if the ESA misbehaves (this might be measured in the number of valid complaints, clean up actions required by crew members, biting or barking incidents, etc.), the ESA will be removed from the owner and placed in a on board kennel at the owner's expense (per diem cost). If the owner refuses to kennel the ESA, off they all go at the next port. The kennel cost would be significantly higher than a land based one just because cruise ship space is expensive. I believe Cunard has installed kennels at least one of their ships, albeit not for this reason.

 

I personally don't care if ESA is on board the ship as long as it doesn't interfere with my vacation in the same way that I didn't care when I saw an older gentleman carrying a small dog in the mall the other day. That dog was well-behaved and didn't interfere with my mall walk.

 

Wow, are you letting yourself in for legal action when you "deprive" the person of their ESA by moving it to a kennel, where it cannot perform the "life saving" function it is supposed to do. Cunard's kennels are fairly compact, there are staff involved (more cost), and visiting hours are severely limited. As for "consent form", it is already there, in the ticket contract, where the passenger agrees that the Captain can disembark anyone who the Captain feels, in his sole discretion, "Passenger’s conduct or presence, or that of any minor for whom the Passengeris responsible, is believed to present a possible danger, security risk or bedetrimental to himself or the health, welfare, comfort or enjoyment of others,"

 

If they don't want to enforce this clause over ill-mannered dogs, what makes you think they will enforce anything else?

 

And, as stated well back in this thread, RCI does have a code of conduct for service animals, yet they don't enforce it. Only when CLIA as a group realize this is a problem, most likely when there are bite cases like on Delta, and adopt an industry wide policy will this change.

[TickledBlue]

Come on, you can't possibly think that a cruise line that refuses to inforce its MDR dress code because it is afraid to alienate anyone would do anything as severe as you suggest. Some folks would rather part with their first born rather than Fido.

 

You have a good point. There certainly be lots of drama if Fluffy was sentenced to the kennel because, after all, that's why they were not already in a land based one.

[dkjretired]

On an American Airline flight last year, there was a couple that had a monkey they brought aboard the airplane. They claimed it was a service animal. This was a new one for us.

 

 

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According to ADA only dogs and in some cases miniature horses qualify as Service Animals.

[Bailey & Sophie]

I absolutely agree with Delta.

I have NO problem with people needing actual service dogs. But those who get fake certificates, in my opinion, are slapping the faces of those who actually need these service dogs.

I have 2 Cairn Terriers, that I love very much. I could save lots of money by taking them on the cruises with me.

But, I need a vacation from THEM!!

Bless all those who need service dogs, those with disabilities we can see and those that we cannot.

[LrgPizza]

Service animals are trained to perform specific task or tasks to help the owner. If it’s the mere presence of the animal that gives the support, then it’s not a true service animal, and should be banned. I think HIPAA or ADA or whatever regulations should be changed to allow businesses to inquire about the functions of the animals they are allowing into their establishments.

[Ocean Boy]

Service animals are trained to perform specific task or tasks to help the owner. If it’s the mere presence of the animal that gives the support, then it’s not a true service animal, and should be banned. I think HIPAA or ADA or whatever regulations should be changed to allow businesses to inquire about the functions of the animals they are allowing into their establishments.

Should they also be changed to allow questioning as to what a person's medical conditions are or what renders them handicapped? Because to ask the purpose of the service animal will probably reveal the patrons issues, right? Or maybe you feel that in return for having an animal those folks must give up their right to privacy and confidentiality that everyone else enjoys?

[gerif]

I have no problem with legitimate service dogs. Sailed with two of them several years ago - German Shepherd and a Lab. Saw them in elevators and around the ship. Their table in the MDR was next to ours and they sat quietly under the table. You wouldn’t even know they were there. True service dogs.

 

What burns my butt are the little faux service dogs that get to ride free in their owners lap while my show cats get to ride under the seat and count as my carryon while I get to pay $250 for this privilege.

[gerif]

Exactly. What do you do if you are allergic? Especially highly allergic. My eyes will tear. My skin will itch. But what about those whose throat can close. I could not sit next to a dog for hours. They have to see both sides of the fence.

You can change seats. I have the same problem with perfume. Imagine having to sit next to someone who marinated in the stuff for several hours.

[purduemom1]

Reading thru’ this thread I notice that service animals are sometimes mixed up with ESAs. My understanding is that a true, trained service animal will NOT be dressed up in clothes, be pushed in a stroller, be sitting on the owner’s lap in the dining room, be fed from the owner’s plate. A true service animal, no matter what the service is, will know it’s place and will not cause any inconvenience to others. On a plane that animal will not be sitting on a seat, walking around the plane or interacting with any other passengers. In stores, service animals won’t be sitting in a grocery cart.

 

I have no problem with a true service animal however, ESAs are another matter. If a person truly needs the animal in order to survive ( whatever the reason-physical or emotional) then get a trained, legit service animal and lets do away with this bogus ESA stuff. I do not want to sleep in a bed or on a pillow that was also used by someone’s ESA. Yes, I have seen this happen when walking past an open cabin door and the ESA was sleeping on the bed. Those who can’t stand being away from their animal are often the ones who allow the animal to sleep with them. Why would it be any different in a hotel or on a cruise ship?

 

So if airlines, cruise lines, hotels, etc impose rules that weed out the ESA from the true service animal then those businesses will have my support.

[newcruzer2]

 

So if airlines, cruise lines, hotels, etc impose rules that weed out the ESA from the true service animal then those businesses will have my support.

I haven't flown delta in a decade BUT when I book airfare for my Nov Cruise I WILL DEFINITELY look at delta First, because of their new policy. Kudos delta and the same would go for ANY cruise who enforced service animal Rules, not just made up certificates on the internet

[LrgPizza]

Should they also be changed to allow questioning as to what a person's medical conditions are or what renders them handicapped? Because to ask the purpose of the service animal will probably reveal the patrons issues, right? Or maybe you feel that in return for having an animal those folks must give up their right to privacy and confidentiality that everyone else enjoys?

 

 

No, they shouldn’t have to give up their right to privacy simply because there are puke bags abusing the system, but apparently no one else can come up with another solution. This one isn’t good, but it is one.

[londongal796]

This is the thing which I have always found confusing when I see the Emotional Support Animals onboard the ship:

Emotional Support Animals are for providing someone with emotional support during a difficult time.

Who the heck finds a luxury, all-inclusive cruise vacation to be something for which they would require 'emotional support' to get through?

And frankly, no one FORCES you to take a luxury, all-inclusive cruise vacation. Therefore there is absolutely no reason to require the 'emotional support' of an animal.

 

The flagrant abuse of this policy on board the ships really does get to me. As many others have rightly pointed out, there are REAL service animals who are trained and are absolutely 100% more than welcome on board ships, flights, in restaurants, etc etc. But it is common knowledge that such trained service animals should not be distracted from their duties while working. This means anytime they have their harness on, they are in 'work mode'. Everyday people will seldom see a service animal in 'rest' mode because this more often than not takes place at home.

 

When you see these 'emotional support animals' being dressed up, pushed around in strollers, and carried around on pillows -- I can guarantee you they are not genuine service animals. You also would not encourage other people to pet your working service animal as this is considered a distraction and could cause them to stop doing their essential duties. Yet I always see those with 'emotional support animals' (claiming they are service animals) on board the ship encouraging others to pet the animal etc etc.

 

There is absolutely a difference between service animals and emotional support animals, and service animals are not a problem at all whatsoever. But too many people are abusing the term 'emotional support animals' so they can bring their pet everywhere with them and I am very happy to hear that Delta is drawing a line in the sand and I encourage Royal Caribbean and other cruise lines to do the same!

 

As an aside, I have a friend who works in the airline industry and we joke about this scenario with him. He teases us that all we need to do is buy our cat a jazzy little vest that says 'emotional support cat' and we can bring him everywhere we want!!

[cruisegirl1]

We had 6 service dogs, sponsored by an organization ( can't recall name) on a recent Oasis cruise. The captain announced ( and a post was in the Compass) that the dogs were service dogs and should not be distracted from the owner. No petting, feeding etc.

 

I spoke to a woman who was with one of the dogs. She explained that there were to be 7 dogs but one did not pass some certification. She told me that she had heard that some bring emotional dogs on ships, but all 6 dogs were, in her words, "service dogs". There were three different patches ( grass or chips) for the dogs on the walking deck.

 

We saw dogs all about the ship as well as one on Labadee.

 

NONE of the dogs were lap dogs (although one was small), none were in strollers, none were dressed in outfits, none were offered to be held by others, none made a sound, none were fed from the table and all kept quietly to their owners.

 

 

M

[rj70056]

You have approximately 90 seconds to evacuate a plane in an emergency; granted you most likely will have more time to abandon a ship (hopefully) but does anyone want someones supposedly emotional support animal in their way when it comes time to evacuate.

 

Wonder if they ever do dog overboard drills? Keep Pets (not true service dogs) off the ship.

 

We do have choices and if we start choosing with our wallets things will change.

[cindivan]

I have been on flights where they announce that someone on board has a peanut allergy so they don't serve peanuts on that flight. They also ask others not to eat peanuts that they brought on with them. However if someone is allergic to dogs, to bad for you.

 

 

 

Totally depends on the airline and the crew. We have 2 kids, ages 21 and 20 that are allergic to all nuts. The 21yo just found out when he was 18. But with our younger son (very allergic) we found out when he was less than one so we have dealt with that for almost 19 years. Our experience has been varied, but we have been threatened at least twice when he was younger that if we say any more about the severity of his allergies we would be denied boarding because they can’t accommodate someone with severe allergies like that. Not saying it was right, and I probably could have sued the airline if they did deny me boarding, but at what cost? We gave up many years ago saying anything because it rarely accomplished anything besides rolling eyes or threats.

 

And for comparison. It’s one or two dogs, vs a multitude of passengers opening up bags of nuts releasing the protein dust from the bags into the recycled air.

 

 

 

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Edited January 27, 2018 by cindivan

[keishashadow]

You can change seats. I have the same problem with perfume. Imagine having to sit next to someone who marinated in the stuff for several hours.

 

If the flight is full, good luck getting someone to switch seats. Especially, if they paid for a seat assignment.

[Mellowjourney]

I just printed out my hospital's new policy on service animals to review with staff. It only allows for dogs and miniature horses. I had to google service horses and it's legit, so I thought I would bring a miniature horse on my next cruise to see if I can get away with it. ;p

 

BTW, due to HIPAA, we are barred from asking for details regarding a person's disability and their need for a service animal.

[Dennis#1]

I just printed out my hospital's new policy on service animals to review with staff. It only allows for dogs and miniature horses. I had to google service horses and it's legit, so I thought I would bring a miniature horse on my next cruise to see if I can get away with it......

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Bkchero]

I just printed out my hospital's new policy on service animals to review with staff. It only allows for dogs and miniature horses. I had to google service horses and it's legit, so I thought I would bring a miniature horse on my next cruise to see if I can get away with it. ;p

 

BTW, due to HIPAA, we are barred from asking for details regarding a person's disability and their need for a service animal.

 

Can my comfort duck go for a ride on your mini horse?

 

People should be ashamed of themselves for abusing the system and taking advantage of those who truly need service animals. I’d probably include those who truly need comfort animals, like former service members who have PTSD, in my broader definition of “service” animals even though they technically are not.

 

Then again, I probably shouldn’t be surprised that since people have been abusing handicap parking spaces for decades . . .

[chengkp75]

Can my comfort duck go for a ride on your mini horse?

 

People should be ashamed of themselves for abusing the system and taking advantage of those who truly need service animals. I’d probably include those who truly need comfort animals, like former service members who have PTSD, in my broader definition of “service” animals even though they technically are not.

 

Then again, I probably shouldn’t be surprised that since people have been abusing handicap parking spaces for decades . . .

 

Just a note, but PTSD dogs are considered to be service animals and not ESA's, since they typically perform some action to help keep their owner from situations where the PTSD is triggered. Be it entering rooms before the owner (clearing the room), or nudging him/her away from crowds, there is some sort of action.

[chengkp75]

Can my comfort duck go for a ride on your mini horse?

 

People should be ashamed of themselves for abusing the system and taking advantage of those who truly need service animals. I’d probably include those who truly need comfort animals, like former service members who have PTSD, in my broader definition of “service” animals even though they technically are not.

 

Then again, I probably shouldn’t be surprised that since people have been abusing handicap parking spaces for decades . . .

 

Just a note, but PTSD dogs are considered by the ADA to be service animals, since they typically perform some action (entering a room before their owner to "clear" it, or nudging the owner away from crowds) that help to keep the owner away from situations that may trigger the PTSD.

[time4u2go]

I haven't flown delta in a decade BUT when I book airfare for my Nov Cruise I WILL DEFINITELY look at delta First, because of their new policy. Kudos delta and the same would go for ANY cruise who enforced service animal Rules, not just made up certificates on the internet

There's really nothing to stop someone from using a "made up certificate on the internet" to get their pet onto a Delta flight (or onto any cruise ship with a similar policy).