Huge brawl on the Legend, with video.

[richstowe]

This thread should be studied is sociology classes. I am really saddened by most of the comments. Everyone is blaming everyone and everything except for the idiots who caused all this.

Blaming the captain? For real?

Blaming security? For real?

Cruise line security is not a trained swat team. Tasers? No line would ever tase one of their guests. Talk about a lawsuit! Flight attendants deal with bad passengers every day and are there for your safety but in no way are they equipped for a riot or carry tasers.

Oh boo hoo. Some skinny security guard loved tapped people brawling on a cruise ship.

It tells you everything what is wrong with society today. Everyone wants to blame someone or something else instead of the root cause of what happened.

Do we now need to cruise with swat teams? Should cruise ships be monitored with armed foot patrols? I sure hope not. I don't think Carnival did anything wrong. I am not blaming ANYONE except these idiots who walk through life as if they are the star of their own reality show.

I fully agree with you. Almost ! It is fascinating how so many of the comments are exteme comments berating Carnival .

 

Carnival has a history of giving the benefit of the doubt to difficult passengers(as do others in the hospitality industry). Normally this is the correct direction to take . Sometimes people can temporarily go over the line but will , perhaps with a bit of time and direction, behave themselves . In this case the ship's crew missed the signs . This clan was out for trouble from the beginning .In retrospect not acting sooner was obviously a mistake.

[AmBear]

Okay so post one from Oceania , Seabourn ,Viking ,Regent or another expensive cruise line . RCL,Celebrity , Princess and HCL are not considered expensive cruise lines . They are mass market cruise lines .

Sally google it yourself:eek:, but I do remember reading a brittish newspaper about Regent, 'forcibly' putting off ship a day early in Italy, a 85 year old grandmother, and her 88 yr old husband, cause she had a brief episode in her cabin, (a nightmare) she almost died from the crew and subsequent treatment by the dilapidated hospital she was taken to! So I guess you better not have any nightmares on the expensive cruises!;)

BTW, those lines you mention are mostly owned by the same companies you call mass market! lolololololol

Edited February 20, 2018 by AmBear
sp

[Keys2Heaven]

David - Sobe you are the only post that actually hits to the Heart of this whole Ugly issue. Typical threads from most, blame everybody, but the ugly group that started this. Mayhem

 

You've missed the point of this thread. Of course the group is to blame. Nobody here has excused the ones who started all of this. But, once the fight starts, someone needs to stop it. That's where the discussion is at. How it was stopped and should it or could it have been stopped sooner or even prevented at all!

[AmBear]

You've missed the point of this thread. Of course the group is to blame. Nobody here has excused the ones who started all of this. But, once the fight starts, someone needs to stop it. That's where the discussion is at. How it was stopped and should it or could it have been stopped sooner or even prevented at all!

 

Not totally, a lot of bashing of Carnival here by lovers of other cruise lines about Carnival 'low life's, 'budget cruises', etc.'. They can't argue their loved cruise line is better, cause all cruise lines have problems, all types of vacation have problems, so they attack other's favorites!

As far as what Carnival, and the other lines will do, you gotta know they'll have a much shorter fuse in the future towards putting off anyone they deem a trouble maker! And watch, there will be conversations then about people being put off for what they view as nothing, we missed a port cause we had to alter course to put someone off, similar to what they do now for medical reasons!;p

You're never gonna make everyone happy!

If we were on that ship, we would have grabbed some popcorn, a bucket of beers and sat at a distance and watched the 'live entertainment'!:p

BTW, see ya on the Glory 4/21 cruise!:D

[Keys2Heaven]

Not totally, a lot of bashing of Carnival here by lovers of other cruise lines about Carnival 'low life's, 'budget cruises', etc.'. They can't argue their loved cruise line is better, cause all cruise lines have problems, all types of vacation have problems, so they attack other's favorites!

As far as what Carnival, and the other lines will do, you gotta know they'll have a much shorter fuse in the future towards putting off anyone they deem a trouble maker! And watch, there will be conversations then about people being put off for what they view as nothing, we missed a port cause we had to alter course to put someone off, similar to what they do now for medical reasons!;p

You're never gonna make everyone happy!

If we were on that ship, we would have grabbed some popcorn, a bucket of beers and sat at a distance and watched the 'live entertainment'!:p

BTW, see ya on the Glory 4/21 cruise!:D

 

You what they say, 'Misery loves company.'

[ALFLAFA]

The problem would have been solved on day one if Carnival had one of the offenders walk the Plank in a public area when all this started . [emoji6]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[ducklite]

In 2015, on Holland Nieuw Amsterdam, a woman was raped by a crew member and almost thrown over board!

How about some other incidents/charges, on other cruise lines,,,,

Feb. 2018 P&O fight breaks out between 7 people forcing ship back to port! (Sydney)

Feb. 2018 RCL sexual assault on a minor.

Jan 11 NCL sexual assault on a child by crew member.

Jan 8 NCL drug arrests.

Jan 1 RCL assault, stabbing.

Jan 1 NCL passenger arrested.

I could list hundreds more for the years previous, seems like it includes every cruise line, 'yea even the expensive ones', and it runs from petty theft, fighting, to child rape, and even murder!:eek:

So lets chill out, what happened doesn't just happen on cruise ships, it can, and does happen all the time, around us! There are a lot of sick people out there!:eek:

But that being said, you gotta live, can't hide from the world, we'll be cruising this weekend!:D:D

 

Mmm, not seeing any "expensive ones" on that list.

[ducklite]

"They were told for three days, they've now attacked three different people, why don't you either get rid of them or lock them in the cells?" she said.

 

“We’ve all made several complaints, saying kids were scared,” Bolitho said. “The captain said, ‘What do you want me to do about it — throw them overboard?’ ”

 

I think that I have read every post in this thread and I'm yet to see anyone comment on the captains lack of authority in preventing this incident from happening. According to several newspaper reports the crew, and I assume, the captain, knew that there were several "unruly" guests from a particular group causing trouble. His response of "What do you want me to do about it — throw them overboard?” should have been met with - No lock them in their cabins. Strong decisive action would have prevented this situation from ever occurring, the captain failed his duty of care to both the passengers and his crew.

 

 

I very much agree with this comment. The Captain is the one ultimately responsible and he failed in that capacity.

[ducklite]

[/font][/color]

I've read on here that no port would take them...or something? That makes me wonder, what do you do if that happens? I suppose cruise ships don't have a brig? It seems like they should have some way of containing people.

 

The way I understand it, all larger mass market ships have a detainment room for this type of scenario. I"m not sure that it would be large enough to have contained all of the miscreants involved in this situation. Confinement to quarters with a guard posted would have likely been a better option.

[Kingofcool1947]

The problem would have been solved on day one if Carnival had one of the offenders walk the Plank in a public area when all this started . [emoji6]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

 

ALFLAFA,

Good one!

Now that’s the most offensive comment so far.:evilsmile:

:)

Edited February 20, 2018 by Kingofcool1947

[Keys2Heaven]

The way I understand it, all larger mass market ships have a detainment room for this type of scenario. I"m not sure that it would be large enough to have contained all of the miscreants involved in this situation. Confinement to quarters with a guard posted would have likely been a better option.

 

That was already tried earlier in the cruise. Still have no followup information as to who this applied to and how many were in this situation.

[AmBear]

Mmm, not seeing any "expensive ones" on that list.

You do know the 'expensive ones' are mostly owned by the 'cheaper ones!:D

[ducklite]

And as I listed earlier in this thread, it seems all the cruise lines, even the expensive ones have experienced outbreaks of criminal activity!

 

I think of expensive lines as Regent, Seabourn, Windstar, SilverSea, Crystal, Oceania, Nat/Geo and a couple more I'm missing.

 

I've never heard of a brawl or criminal activity on any of those.

[Maraprince]

I've been trying to find articles on this and one story indicated that they might have tried that, but that the port wouldn't take them. Some of them were restricted to their cabins, but don't know if it was the folks assaulting other passengers or just family members. Nor do we know how long they were restricted to their cabins.

 

Remember, according to passengers, this started on day 1 and went on until day 9 out of a 10 day cruise.

 

This would be my extreme resolution. As Captain, if I couldn't find a port to take them, I would turn around and head for home. Once there, Carnival should have refunded 100% the cruise fare for every passenger (minus the family) and then filed a lawsuit against the Barkho family for the lost revenue as a result of their actions.

 

 

I have also seen posts (not sure of which cruise line) of a guard being posted outside cabin(s) to be sure they do not leave -- "house arrest". This would restrict their movements until they could be disembarked at the nearest port in hopes of stopping any escalation of the problem.

 

We also do not know if the ship contacted their office in Australia to report what was happening on board. Would not the Captain be able to make the decision to return to the original port and disembark these passengers? Definitely not fair to the rest of the passengers to endure 9 days of terror by this family. When passengers are locking themselves in their cabins out of fear, things have gone too far.

 

Is there not a guarantee by Carnival that a passenger can disembark at a port if they are not happy with the sailing and receive a refund? I would think this may be an extreme action for the non involved passengers to take, but if they felt unsafe or that Carnival was not doing enough to resolve the issue.... At the least, everyone in the offending group should be barred in the future from sailing with any other cruise line due to their conduct on board.

 

 

MARAPRINCE

[ducklite]

Okay Post a video from one of the expensive cruise lines such as Regent, Seabourn , Oceania or Viking !

 

Won't happen. The people who sail those ships would apologize profusely and offer to cover the cleaning cost after stepping on someone else's shoe.

[payitforward]

I'm curious how you came to this conclusion that they have such a lack of training? Cruise ship security guards actually do have extensive training and some cruise lines even send them to FBI courses. One step further, security officers are typically required to have a military background. I've even provided defensive tactics training aboard cruise ships and was pleasantly surprised how well they did.

 

He might be able to justify those kicks if the guy he was kicking had the other guy in a choke hold, but there are much better tactics to combat something like that.

 

Hey Aquahound,

I'm curious as to what tactics you suggest. I never had formal training, but spent almost 20 years as a first responder. Watching this, my first instinct was to put the guy in the turquoise shirt in a headlock of his own. But, I've been wrong before. Thankfully, I survived my career. :eek:

 

To all of those saying the Captain is not to blame, who do you think IS to blame. They have cameras all over that ship. You can't tell me he was unaware of the potential for violence escalating over a period of days. They should have been kicked off of that ship much earlier. You can also say "they were two days from land." But, when you put more than 2000 people on a ship, you have to have contingency plans for every possible occurrence. Don't ships have a "brig?" What about calling on a military vessel in the area? There had to be something they could do. IMHO, telling passengers not to walk alone, or to stay in their cabins is not an acceptable solution.

 

I had been planning to give Carnival a try in the next couple of months. Now, I'm not 100% sure I want to, but I do want to be on board to judge for myself and not take the opinions of others as fact.

[Floridastorm]

With all of the discussion about this incident I am curious why it took 5 days and a brawl to remove these thugs? Many passengers apparently were afraid to routinely leave their cabins for fear of confrontation and/or injury. How is it possible that they allowed these troublemakers free roam of the ship to ply their trade? This is what is very confusing to me. Is it that we are living in a horrendously politically correct world where people in charge are afraid to offend certain types of people for fear of retribution either socially or politically? I'm quite sure that many of the passengers brought this problem to the staff. Who, on the ship, makes the ultimate decision on how to handle miscreants? I do not blame Carnival security people in how they tried to break up this brawl. Just look at the police in any riot. Not much better at controlling things. I do blame Carnival for not dealing with these thugs from the get go when they arrived on the ship. Or at least at the first sign of trouble. You cannot allow passengers, many of whom are elderly and with medical conditions, to be forced into their cabins for 5 days in order to escape a loony tunes atmosphere. Carnival or any cruise company that allows this should be ashamed.

[Keys2Heaven]

With all of the discussion about this incident I am curious why it took 5 days and a brawl to remove these thugs? Many passengers apparently were afraid to routinely leave their cabins for fear of confrontation and/or injury. How is it possible that they allowed these troublemakers free roam of the ship to ply their trade? This is what is very confusing to me. Is it that we are living in a horrendously politically correct world where people in charge are afraid to offend certain types of people for fear of retribution either socially or politically? I'm quite sure that many of the passengers brought this problem to the staff. Who, on the ship, makes the ultimate decision on how to handle miscreants? I do not blame Carnival security people in how they tried to break up this brawl. Just look at the police in any riot. Not much better at controlling things. I do blame Carnival for not dealing with these thugs from the get go when they arrived on the ship. Or at least at the first sign of trouble. You cannot allow passengers, many of whom are elderly and with medical conditions, to be forced into their cabins for 5 days in order to escape a loony tunes atmosphere. Carnival or any cruise company that allows this should be ashamed.

 

The only thing I saw posted regarding your question was that they did try to put them (or at least the ones causing problems) off earlier in another port, but they refused to take them. Some were restricted to their cabins as well.

 

Too bad we can't get someone who was on that cruise to report here their firsthand account instead of us just speculating what may or may not have happened.

[ducklite]

The ultra luxury lines don’t need security personnel.

 

They have them, but their presence is pretty much limited to being available in the case of an emergency (fire, medical, etc.) and swiping ID's as passengers get on and off the ship.

[ducklite]

David - Sobe you are the only post that actually hits to the Heart of this whole Ugly issue. Typical threads from most, blame everybody, but the ugly group that started this. Mayhem

 

Yes they started it, and yes they are to blame, but there is also culpability on the captain and crew who were ill-equipped mentally and/or physically to manage what was turning into somewhat of a crisis situation at sea.

[milleruszk]

There was another incident on a P&O ship out of Sydney on February 12th. A girl hit a guy over the head with a wine bottle and brawl broke out. Ultimately the ship returned to Sydney and 7 people were taken into custody.

 

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/events.html

[ducklite]

You do know the 'expensive ones' are mostly owned by the 'cheaper ones!:D

 

Silversea, Windstar, Nat Geo/Lindblad/Orion, Compagnie du Ponant, SeDream, and Crystal are all independently owned and operated and not part of a large conglamorate.

 

Seabourn, Regent, Azamara, and Oceania are part of a larger conglamorate.

 

More independent luxury lines than otherwise. So your word "mostly" is quite inaccurate. I've also left off a handful of even smaller luxury lines that are not owned by a conglamorate, which makes your comment even moreso inaccurate.

[Maraprince]

Yes, the ships all have cameras all over the place so the troublemakers could readily been identified. First step, stop serving them liquor. Secondly, confine them to their cabins until they can be made to leave the ship. Why tell the passengers who did nothing wrong to stay in their cabins for their own safety? Third, call their home office and advise them what is going on. Fourth, whatever is the equalivant to the US Coast Guard should have been notified of what was going on and help should have been requested from them if no port would take these troublemakers.

 

Many steps that could have been taken. Nothing about the Captain making an on-board announcement?????

 

 

MARAPRINCE

[tidecat]

Something else to consider - since all of the ports of call were in New Caledonia, could local officials there declined to have to taken them into custody?

[Keys2Heaven]

Something else to consider - since all of the ports of call were in New Caledonia, could local officials there declined to have to taken them into custody?

 

I believe from one of the reports of this incident that that one of the earlier ports refused to take the offenders. Don't know how true that is.