Huge brawl on the Legend, with video.

[AmBear]

I am also retired and betting there are none !

 

Well Sally, you'd be wrong!

[Sailor_Sally]

Well Sally, you'd be wrong!

 

Okay so post one from Oceania , Seabourn ,Viking ,Regent or another expensive cruise line . RCL,Celebrity , Princess and HCL are not considered expensive cruise lines . They are mass market cruise lines .

[Haboob]

As a retired Police Officer, 33 years with the Philadelphia Police Department, I agree with you Sir. There is no doubt that This was allowed to fester for days. These people should have been put off much earlier than the night of the melee. There should have been restrictions placed on their consumption of alcohol. By the 4th or 5th day the staff knew who the trouble makers were. If they didn't like it, too bad. The Captain rules that ship he should have been aware of the trouble brewing. Did he order any precautionary action to be taken? They can flag them from ordering drinks right on the sea pass. I love your use of the "ferals" never quite heard it used in that context before, but entirely appropriate, Lol

 

Welcome to the thread.

 

Earlier on, we've established

• The group in question was "me against my brother, me and my brother against my cousin" and so on.

• The ship was 2 days from land when behavior got to the disembarkation level.

• The 6 or so troublemakers kept drinking -- possibly supplied by the other 15 members of the group.

• The Captain was on video at the scene early in the brawl, but quickly departed for ...elsewhere.

• Non-security personnel repeatedly stomped both a person holding a headlock and the person in the headlock.

• The security personnel employed no recognizable tactics in attempting to control the brawl.

• It wasn't until after the brawl that the group was confined to the their cabins with crew guarding their doors.

 

Oh! And

• Ship's personnel were as concerned with preventing the brawl from being recorded as stopping it.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Haboob
Forgot last point

[Bernardo62]

http://www.smh.com.au/national/violence-reported-on-cruise-ship-carnival-legend-on-way-to-melbourne-20180215-p4z0jz.html

 

 

The above is a link to a news report that popped up this morning.

A violent fight between passengers on a Carnival ship.

Just as shocking as the fighting passengers is the behaviour of the CREW. Staff, including officers and crew in security uniforms are seeing punching and kicking people on the ground and more than one crew member can be seen attacking bystanders who are filming the chaos on their phones. Badly handled.

 

International waters..... Anything goes for SECURITY

Body slams --- Choke holds --- Headlocks --- Kicking --- Biting

[beentothere]

How about:

 

1) class action business lawsuit on breach on contract to provide safe passage. This was no

act based on an exception.

 

2) dispute the credit card bill for same reason.

 

3) complain bitterly to the passenger cruise rights on the abandonment of responsibility.

 

and so on....

 

This was a highly serious situation. It could have erupted into a las vegas type catastrophy.

 

Didn't they learn anything from the ships where they had resource failure and people fought with waste?

[Toryhere]

Welcome to the thread.

 

Earlier on, we've established

• The group in question was "me against my brother, me and my brother against my cousin" and so on.

• The ship was 2 days from land when behavior got to the disembarkation level.

• The 6 or so troublemakers kept drinking -- possibly supplied by the other 15 members of the group.

• The Captain was on video at the scene early in the brawl, but quickly departed for ...elsewhere.

• Non-security personnel repeatedly stomped both a person holding a headlock and the person in the headlock.

• The security personnel employed no recognizable tactics in attempting to control the brawl.

• It wasn't until after the brawl that the group was confined to the their cabins with crew guarding their doors.

 

Oh! And

• Ship's personnel were as concerned with preventing the brawl from being recorded as stopping it.

 

It was me who first introduced the word “ferals” on this thread to describe the family that caused all the mayhem on the Legend. That is an Australian term for people who act in a violently antisocial fashion. Just like there are feral cats and pigs, who are not domesticated, there are also feral people.

[karoo]

In this day and age, a group of terrorists boarding a cruise ship should not be something that is out of the question. Yes they should be trained for such a possibility. If a bunch of teenagers can cause this trouble, just imagine what an organized group could do? If not cause injuries, it certainly has the possibility to disrupt the cruise industry.

 

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5411533/Michael-Zakhour-centre-Carnival-Legend-cruise-brawl.html

 

If you follow this link it names them.

 

I don’t believe they were terrorists, just thugs.

 

 

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[Toryhere]

Okay so post one from Oceania , Seabourn ,Viking ,Regent or another expensive cruise line . RCL,Celebrity , Princess and HCL are not considered expensive cruise lines . They are mass market cruise lines .

The ultra luxury lines don’t need security personnel.

[Podna's]

News conference. Captain and Carnival executives side by side to respond to all of this. Only way to move on past all of this.

 

 

 

Are you serious? I promise 99.9% of Carnival cruisers have already moved past this. Sure this investigation will go on for a while but for us outsiders, it’ll be forgotten in no time. Of course there’s a select few here that’ll never step foot on a Carnival ship that will try to keep this incident alive but they’ll fail like they always do.

 

 

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[Cyber Kat]

I thought they always had brigs onboard also. Certainly, not the capacity needed for this family.

 

 

 

We did the Behind the Fun tour on the Splendor and the Pride (the Legend’s Spirit Class sister ship) and the both had a brig. We weren’t allowed inside, but we did pass it and the morgue. It didn’t look like either would accommodate 23-24 people.

 

I don’t know if Carnival or any other cruise line is prepared to confine that many violent people. When they have a Noro outbreak people are quarantined in their cabins, but those people are generally too sick to put up much of a fuss.

 

I’m guessing that violence on this level, involving this many people is a bit rare, if not unprecedented.

 

 

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[Pushka]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5411533/Michael-Zakhour-centre-Carnival-Legend-cruise-brawl.html

 

Michael Zakour. Search on usual social sites.

 

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[Cyber Kat]

When the Captain was made aware of the situation, his response was, “What do you want me to do about — throw them overboard?”. Huge red flag.

 

 

 

I would have said, “yes, please do!” [emoji12]

 

 

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[Pushka]

The ultra luxury lines don’t need security personnel.

 

 

 

You should have seen the security personnel escorting the QM2 as it passed through the Arabian Gulf area. Also accompanied by RN Helicopters. The Security people looked like extremely fit ex Marines, Seals etc. Their job being to scour the waters not the passengers. As soon as a smaller boat came into view they were on extreme alert.

 

 

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[david_sobe]

This thread should be studied is sociology classes. I am really saddened by most of the comments. Everyone is blaming everyone and everything except for the idiots who caused all this.

Blaming the captain? For real?

Blaming security? For real?

Cruise line security is not a trained swat team. Tasers? No line would ever tase one of their guests. Talk about a lawsuit! Flight attendants deal with bad passengers every day and are there for your safety but in no way are they equipped for a riot or carry tasers.

Oh boo hoo. Some skinny security guard loved tapped people brawling on a cruise ship.

It tells you everything what is wrong with society today. Everyone wants to blame someone or something else instead of the root cause of what happened.

Do we now need to cruise with swat teams? Should cruise ships be monitored with armed foot patrols? I sure hope not. I don't think Carnival did anything wrong. I am not blaming ANYONE except these idiots who walk through life as if they are the star of their own reality show.

[rodndonna]

this thread should be studied is sociology classes. I am really saddened by most of the comments. Everyone is blaming everyone and everything except for the idiots who caused all this.

Blaming the captain? For real?

Blaming security? For real?

Cruise line security is not a trained swat team. Tasers? No line would ever tase one of their guests. Talk about a lawsuit! Flight attendants deal with bad passengers every day and are there for your safety but in no way are they equipped for a riot or carry tasers.

Oh boo hoo. Some skinny security guard loved tapped people brawling on a cruise ship.

It tells you everything what is wrong with society today. Everyone wants to blame someone or something else instead of the root cause of what happened.

Do we now need to cruise with swat teams? Should cruise ships be monitored with armed foot patrols? I sure hope not. I don't think carnival did anything wrong. I am not blaming anyone except these idiots who walk through life as if they are the star of their own reality show.

 

exactly Right......

Edited February 20, 2018 by rodndonna
typo

[karoo]

This thread should be studied is sociology classes. I am really saddened by most of the comments. Everyone is blaming everyone and everything except for the idiots who caused all this.

 

Blaming the captain? For real?

 

Blaming security? For real?

 

Cruise line security is not a trained swat team. Tasers? No line would ever tase one of their guests. Talk about a lawsuit! Flight attendants deal with bad passengers every day and are there for your safety but in no way are they equipped for a riot or carry tasers.

 

Oh boo hoo. Some skinny security guard loved tapped people brawling on a cruise ship.

 

It tells you everything what is wrong with society today. Everyone wants to blame someone or something else instead of the root cause of what happened.

 

Do we now need to cruise with swat teams? Should cruise ships be monitored with armed foot patrols? I sure hope not. I don't think Carnival did anything wrong. I am not blaming ANYONE except these idiots who walk through life as if they are the star of their own reality show.

 

 

 

Yes- Michael Zakhour’s FB profile explains a lot.

 

 

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[Cyber Kat]

This is terrible that the captain let it occur over several days and didnt kick the trouble makers off the ship earlier. His inaction will cause carnival to give discounts to everyone on the ship. I think the captain should be removed from his duties, and if he didnt know this was occurring over several days, then the security cheif should be canned! Those poor people who had their vacation hijacked by these trouble makers! Nuff Said

 

 

Key phrase here is “over several days.” I keep reading in the reports - a number of reports - that this group boarded in a very cranky state, hell bent on trouble.

 

I’m not discounting the alcohol factor, but there are people who are by nature bullies sober or drunk. This group sounded like a board meeting of Bullies Inc.

 

I wonder if any of the other passengers tried to use that guarantee Carnival is always touting. I think if I saw that group on day one harassing other passengers, unimpeded by ship security, I’d have given it some serious thought.

 

 

 

 

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[Cyber Kat]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5411533/Michael-Zakhour-centre-Carnival-Legend-cruise-brawl.html

 

If you follow this link it names them.

 

I don’t believe they were terrorists, just thugs.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

 

 

The comment you are responding to doesn’t say THIS group were terrorists. The poster, ano, poses the question that if a bunch of teenagers can cause this much mayhem what could a group of actual terrorists do.

 

You might want to reread the original post.

 

 

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[Keys2Heaven]

This thread should be studied is sociology classes. I am really saddened by most of the comments. Everyone is blaming everyone and everything except for the idiots who caused all this.

Blaming the captain? For real?

Blaming security? For real?

Cruise line security is not a trained swat team. Tasers? No line would ever tase one of their guests. Talk about a lawsuit! Flight attendants deal with bad passengers every day and are there for your safety but in no way are they equipped for a riot or carry tasers.

Oh boo hoo. Some skinny security guard loved tapped people brawling on a cruise ship.

It tells you everything what is wrong with society today. Everyone wants to blame someone or something else instead of the root cause of what happened.

Do we now need to cruise with swat teams? Should cruise ships be monitored with armed foot patrols? I sure hope not. I don't think Carnival did anything wrong. I am not blaming ANYONE except these idiots who walk through life as if they are the star of their own reality show.

 

You know, most root cause analysis is done after the fact, as is being done in this thread and will be done by those with direct influence in future state operations. However, the nature of the OP's post was to bring attention to the brawl and the response of Carnival security. As someone else posted, when it comes to handling incidents like the one recorded, perception plays a huge part. Security should act professional....ESPECIALLY on a cruise ship, don't you think?

 

Yeah, yeah, high seas and all that, but this video did nothing to instill an ounce of professionalism on the part of Carnival. It looked like a free for all, with Carnival "security" getting in on the action with cheap shots and almost punching another passenger (woman). And what we assume was the Captain viewing the ordeal and walking away in disgust. Nothing about this said "This is MY ship, I am in control."

 

There is plenty of blame to go around on this, from the corporate board room which has made abysmal policy decisions over the last few years (which no doubt plays a part in all of this) to inadequately trained security to a Captain who stated "What do you want me to do about it, throw them overboard?"

 

Class over.

[david_sobe]

You know, most root cause analysis is done after the fact, as is being done in this thread and will be done by those with direct influence in future state operations. However, the nature of the OP's post was to bring attention to the brawl and the response of Carnival security. As someone else posted, when it comes to handling incidents like the one recorded, perception plays a huge part. Security should act professional....ESPECIALLY on a cruise ship, don't you think?

 

Yeah, yeah, high seas and all that, but this video did nothing to instill an ounce of professionalism on the part of Carnival. It looked like a free for all, with Carnival "security" getting in on the action with cheap shots and almost punching another passenger (woman). And what we assume was the Captain viewing the ordeal and walking away in disgust. Nothing about this said "This is MY ship, I am in control."

 

There is plenty of blame to go around on this, from the corporate board room which has made abysmal policy decisions over the last few years (which no doubt plays a part in all of this) to inadequately trained security to a Captain who stated "What do you want me to do about it, throw them overboard?"

 

Class over.

WTH?

Passengers should not carry on like fighting animals, don't you think? Should security have just stood there? You would be complaining. Should security hit back? You would be complaining and blaming the wrong source again. Nowhere in your post puts any blame or responsibility on the thugs. Yet you find easy scapegoats like the captain and security. What a joke.

Defense attorneys seek your logic out when picking a jury. Their client is not guilty because society and everyone else is to blame. Pay no mind to the man behind the curtain. Its everyone else who is to blame!

Give me a break!

[Keys2Heaven]

WTH?

Passengers should not carry on like fighting animals, don't you think? Should security have just stood there? You would be complaining. Should security hit back? You would be complaining and blaming the wrong source again. Nowhere in your post puts any blame or responsibility on the thugs. Yet you find easy scapegoats like the captain and security. What a joke.

Defense attorneys seek your logic out when picking a jury. Their client is not guilty because society and everyone else is to blame. Pay no mind to the man behind the curtain. Its everyone else who is to blame!

Give me a break!

 

Mr. Sobe,

 

Again, you misinterpret the intent of this thread. We KNOW the family is in the wrong and restating that here does not make it more so. However, this video is about much more than people fighting, it is about how it was handled.

 

 

• Security needed to be involved, but how they acted in this case is being called into question.
  
• The Captain needed to be involved, but his decision to keep the family onboard until day 9 needs to be questioned.
  
• Procedures need to be reviewed to see if there were any telltale signs that people were boarding that could cause trouble. If so, could they have been prevented from boarding.
  
• Procedures need to be reviewed to enact better methods of controlling incidents onboard involving large groups of people.
  

Prosecutors like people who fail to look at the big picture and consider all elements of an incident and, instead, look for people who only see what they want them to see.

 

Where you see just a fight, I see an incident that was handled inadequately and raises more questions about safety and security while onboard.

[palamoh]

David - Sobe you are the only post that actually hits to the Heart of this whole Ugly issue. Typical threads from most, blame everybody, but the ugly group that started this. Mayhem

[Noxequifans]

This “fight” video has had worldwide circulation ..... press and TV. I believe it is a black eye for the whole cruise industry. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is increased security training for all lines and perhaps the hiring of security personnel with some expertise in event deescalation and control.

[Bobev98]

More evidence of the fact that the cruise lines have lowered the bar so far that the ferals are now able to afford a ticket. Another great reason to avoid mass market cruise ships.

 

 

While we aren't as experienced in cruising as many on here we have learned to never book the shorter duration cruises. It is a completely different demographic. Our last cruise was a last minute, no planning 4 day with a couple of friends and while it was fun when we were off the ship the folks on that cruise made us wish we had chosen to just go to work that week...

[Bobev98]

I don't think security should be taking shots, kicks, hits at anyone regardless Of how they feel about them. They have a job to do and should be professional at all times. This really makes carnival look bad. This brings up a question: legally can carnival employees stop you from filming with your phone? Can they confiscate your phone and delete pictures and\or video? Does anyone know?

 

While it is easy to sit on the keyboard and talk about how things should have been handled (and i agree they weren't handled well) we should all understand that once the adrenaline starts coursing through ones veins decision making isn't all ways the best. Even highly trained law enforcement pros can get caught up in the moment and over reach or punch and kick when it isn't necessary.

 

 

My guess is very few of the folks pontificating on how poorly the CCL people handled it have never been punched int he face, let alone been involved in trying to break up a growing fight.

 

Carnival probably could train their security better but i would focus on awareness and prevention and attempt to stop these things before they start. The bartenders and wait staff should be the first line of defense as alcohol is almost always involved in foolishness like this brawl.