Huge brawl on the Legend, with video.

[Pickels]

I wonder what it was all about. Sheesh!

 

 

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Most likely too much alcohol!

[beerman2]

You've missed the point of this thread. Of course the group is to blame. Nobody here has excused the ones who started all of this. But, once the fight starts, someone needs to stop it. That's where the discussion is at. How it was stopped and should it or could it have been stopped sooner or even prevented at all!

And you haven't seen "professional" law enforcement tactics get out of hand once the adrenaline starts?

 

It HAPPENS! And the obvious is Carnival wasn't prepared, I'm not sure land based LE wouldn't have used tasers, batons, choke holds to stop what could be considered a riot situation.

 

So in that sense and others Carnival security wasn't prepared. The resources weren't available.

[Keys2Heaven]

And you haven't seen "professional" law enforcement tactics get out of hand once the adrenaline starts?

 

It HAPPENS! And the obvious is Carnival wasn't prepared, I'm not sure land based LE wouldn't have used tasers, batons, choke holds to stop what could be considered a riot situation.

 

So in that sense and others Carnival security wasn't prepared. The resources weren't available.

 

What's your point? That even though security looked unprofessional, it is excusable since they weren't prepared? I think you're making the case that most of us have already made.

[ray98]

Ehhh....it was a no-win situation for security. They have no equipment to give them the upper hand and the sheer number of disorderly persons countered the show of force that overwhelms most situations. I think many of the comments critical of the 'violence' ranging from allegations there were criminal acts because they touched a passenger to those claiming deescalation was needed are off base. The only tactic that stops something at that stage is force which is never pretty no matter if it is done for the right reasons. Standing by and yelling 'sir please stop' is no longer effective.

 

The failure by security was they didn't use enough force fast enough. The guy on the ground had someone in a choke hold position, that can cause serious damage in seconds. They had a duty to end that right then and just about any laws would authorize them in using force to prevent harm to another. Instead of a 1/2 dozen weak kicks they would have been better off going hands on as a team isolating body parts or at least getting in close so the strikes are effective. With the correct holds the aggressor either gives up or ends up with broken bones.

[beerman2]

What's your point? That even though security looked unprofessional, it is excusable since they weren't prepared? I think you're making the case that most of us have already made.

Point is simple that type of situation can get out of hand even with professional training.(LEO)

 

You or I don't know how /can't say we wouldn't have done the same put into that situation.

 

Way, way too many people are putting the majority of fault on Carnival.

 

If the morons don't start with their crap, you don't have the second part.

[beerman2]

Ehhh....it was a no-win situation for security. They have no equipment to give them the upper hand and the sheer number of disorderly persons countered the show of force that overwhelms most situations. I think many of the comments critical of the 'violence' ranging from allegations there were criminal acts because they touched a passenger to those claiming deescalation was needed are off base. The only tactic that stops something at that stage is force which is never pretty no matter if it is done for the right reasons. Standing by and yelling 'sir please stop' is no longer effective.

 

The failure by security was they didn't use enough force fast enough. The guy on the ground had someone in a choke hold position, that can cause serious damage in seconds. They had a duty to end that right then and just about any laws would authorize them in using force to prevent harm to another. Instead of a 1/2 dozen weak kicks they would have been better off going hands on as a team isolating body parts or at least getting in close so the strikes are effective. With the correct holds the aggressor either gives up or ends up with broken bones.

Thank you.

Had Carnival Security been equipped with Tasers, batons, heavy flashlights and broken the fight up, then you would have people complaining TOO MUCH force was used.

[ray98]

Thank you.

Had Carnival Security been equipped with Tasers, batons, heavy flashlights and broken the fight up, then you would have people complaining TOO MUCH force was used.

 

 

A good portion will complain there was excessive force no matter what you do. They don't understand sometimes it is necessary. That is why it is imperative to make that force effective than to repeatedly use highly visible but ineffective tactics.

[Keys2Heaven]

Way, way too many people are putting the majority of fault on Carnival.

If the morons don't start with their crap, you don't have the second part.

 

Morons will always be morons and are unpredictable, so that is a moot point. The majority emphasis should be on Carnival, where it belongs. Carnival could do nothing about what the morons where going to do, but controlled every aspect of how they responded to this situation.

[NightOne]

There are just so many problems with this incident, response, coverage, and reaction to it.

 

1. As this society has been prone to do as of late the blame is always on everyone except the perpetrators of the act. The incident happened because the perpetrators committed the acts. This was no one else's fault bu theirs. They are solely to blame and all attention should be focused on punishing them.

 

2. The security team did nothing wrong. If you physically assault another passenger or crew member then you ought to have the ever loving crap beat out of you. (repeatedly) These clowns should have got more than they did. Unfortunately we have a free press that is hell bent on criticizing and demonizing law enforcement and authority at the present time while they heap praise on criminals. I haven't heard of anyone being hospitalized as a result of the actions taken by the security team so apparently they didn't brutalize them enough. Also, if a crew member instructs you not to do something then you don't do it. It you don't stand around and have a debate with them in the middle of the incident. A passenger aboard a cruise ship you don't have a "right" to film when you are told not to. If you don't like that, don't go on a privately owned cruise ship.

 

See the guy in the orange shorts in this video:

 

 

He should have been beaten beyond recognition.Anyone who would assault a crew member like this has absolutely no respect for authority and is lucky he is still in one piece.

 

3. The Press/Media (or whatever you want to call them) starts with these overly sensational headlines using words like "Bloodbath". Bloodbath??? Really??? I've watched the videos and read quite a bit about the story as well as seen the aftermath photos and calling it a bloodbath is downright dishonest. I watch all the UFC fights pretty much every weekend and what occurred on those videos doesn't even compare to UFC fights. Total BS from the press.

 

4. The reaction to this on Cruise Critic has been appalling in my opinion. Our society has become a bunch of self-entitled babies who don't respect any authority or rules. What the focus should be on now is prosecuting the individuals involved in this incident instead of a starting witch hunt against the cruise industry.

 

:)

[kendon]

there are just so many problems with this incident, response, coverage, and reaction to it.

 

1. As this society has been prone to do as of late the blame is always on everyone except the perpetrators of the act. The incident happened because the perpetrators committed the acts. This was no one else's fault bu theirs. They are solely to blame and all attention should be focused on punishing them.

 

2. The security team did nothing wrong. If you physically assault another passenger or crew member then you ought to have the ever loving crap beat out of you. (repeatedly) these clowns should have got more than they did. Unfortunately we have a free press that is hell bent on criticizing and demonizing law enforcement and authority at the present time while they heap praise on criminals. I haven't heard of anyone being hospitalized as a result of the actions taken by the security team so apparently they didn't brutalize them enough. Also, if a crew member instructs you not to do something then you don't do it. It you don't stand around and have a debate with them in the middle of the incident. A passenger aboard a cruise ship you don't have a "right" to film when you are told not to. If you don't like that, don't go on a privately owned cruise ship.

 

See the guy in the orange shorts in this video:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcucvadjcom

 

he should have been beaten beyond recognition.anyone who would assault a crew member like this has absolutely no respect for authority and is lucky he is still in one piece.

 

3. The press/media (or whatever you want to call them) starts with these overly sensational headlines using words like "bloodbath". Bloodbath??? Really??? I've watched the videos and read quite a bit about the story as well as seen the aftermath photos and calling it a bloodbath is downright dishonest. I watch all the ufc fights pretty much every weekend and what occurred on those videos doesn't even compare to ufc fights. Total bs from the press.

 

4. The reaction to this on cruise critic has been appalling in my opinion. Our society has become a bunch of self-entitled babies who don't respect any authority or rules. What the focus should be on now is prosecuting the individuals involved in this incident instead of a starting witch hunt against the cruise industry.

 

:)

good post!!

[kendon]

Alcohol and most of the times it is the large groups that cruise together, as they think they own the ship.

 

When the groups get big enough, they DO own the ship. I always check into group cruises before booking. Anyway, we were on a Princess cruise with an extended family of about 15. The kids were a nightmare and the parents not much better. They were eventually asked to leave and they did.

[Thorncroft]

There are just so many problems with this incident, response, coverage, and reaction to it.

 

1. As this society has been prone to do as of late the blame is always on everyone except the perpetrators of the act. The incident happened because the perpetrators committed the acts. This was no one else's fault bu theirs. They are solely to blame and all attention should be focused on punishing them.

 

2. The security team did nothing wrong. If you physically assault another passenger or crew member then you ought to have the ever loving crap beat out of you. (repeatedly) These clowns should have got more than they did. Unfortunately we have a free press that is hell bent on criticizing and demonizing law enforcement and authority at the present time while they heap praise on criminals. I haven't heard of anyone being hospitalized as a result of the actions taken by the security team so apparently they didn't brutalize them enough. Also, if a crew member instructs you not to do something then you don't do it. It you don't stand around and have a debate with them in the middle of the incident. A passenger aboard a cruise ship you don't have a "right" to film when you are told not to. If you don't like that, don't go on a privately owned cruise ship.

 

See the guy in the orange shorts in this video:

 

 

He should have been beaten beyond recognition.Anyone who would assault a crew member like this has absolutely no respect for authority and is lucky he is still in one piece.

 

3. The Press/Media (or whatever you want to call them) starts with these overly sensational headlines using words like "Bloodbath". Bloodbath??? Really??? I've watched the videos and read quite a bit about the story as well as seen the aftermath photos and calling it a bloodbath is downright dishonest. I watch all the UFC fights pretty much every weekend and what occurred on those videos doesn't even compare to UFC fights. Total BS from the press.

 

4. The reaction to this on Cruise Critic has been appalling in my opinion. Our society has become a bunch of self-entitled babies who don't respect any authority or rules. What the focus should be on now is prosecuting the individuals involved in this incident instead of a starting witch hunt against the cruise industry.

 

:)

 

You should apply for a security job with Carnival. Your obvious propensity for violence would probably be welcomed.

[kendon]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5411533/Michael-Zakhour-centre-Carnival-Legend-cruise-brawl.html

 

If you follow this link it names them.

 

I don’t believe they were terrorists, just thugs.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

They are terrorists as they terrorized the passengers on the ship with violence and aggression. Deserved more than they got!

[Keys2Heaven]

4. The reaction to this on Cruise Critic has been appalling in my opinion. Our society has become a bunch of self-entitled babies who don't respect any authority or rules. What the focus should be on now is prosecuting the individuals involved in this incident instead of a starting witch hunt against the cruise industry.

Example of reaction that made you appalled?

 

And who should be doing the prosecuting? Other passengers? Carnival?

 

And why should Carnival's response and handling of the situation not be a pertinent discussion point? Nobody is BLAMING Carnival for the actions of these thugs. The discussion is around how they REACTED!!! Big difference which I think MANY here are failing to recognize. You have a multi-billion dollar corporation with security acting the way they did and decisions made by a Captain that need further clarification.

 

To your opinion of security doing nothing wrong, the jury is still out on that:

 

The American-British company said in a statement that it was investigating "all aspects including the security response" of the incident.

[donna5]

The video on the website showed four minutes of chaos.

 

Buttheads. The guests. The security. All of them.

 

If you do a search there are other videos of this group causing trouble on this cruise.

[donna5]

These responses that excuse the Security guards behavior are troubling. Since when is it okay to literally & figuratively kick a man while he is down? It is evident that either they haven't received training on how to handle these situations or they let their personal feelings get in the way of professionalism. Either way...it is a very bad look for Carnival. Someone has to remain professional & exhibit judgement above that of passengers.

 

When he's down ontop on another person he does.

[NightOne]

Example of reaction that made you appalled?

 

 

For starters: anyone crying about the security guard kicking the guy that won’t let go of the other guy

[NightOne]

You have a multi-billion dollar corporation with security acting the way they did and decisions made by a Captain that need further clarification.

 

 

 

Another problem. The public is not owed an answer.

 

Everyone thinks they have a right to know everything. They do not.

 

These people likely deserved the Hell’s Angels Altamont security team and they were lucky they got the Carnival security team instead.

[JPH814]

Mr. Sobe,

 

Again, you misinterpret the intent of this thread. We KNOW the family is in the wrong and restating that here does not make it more so. However, this video is about much more than people fighting, it is about how it was handled.

 

 

• Security needed to be involved, but how they acted in this case is being called into question.
  
• The Captain needed to be involved, but his decision to keep the family onboard until day 9 needs to be questioned.
  
• Procedures need to be reviewed to see if there were any telltale signs that people were boarding that could cause trouble. If so, could they have been prevented from boarding.
  
• Procedures need to be reviewed to enact better methods of controlling incidents onboard involving large groups of people.
  

Prosecutors like people who fail to look at the big picture and consider all elements of an incident and, instead, look for people who only see what they want them to see.

 

Where you see just a fight, I see an incident that was handled inadequately and raises more questions about safety and security while onboard.

 

 

 

And you draw all these conclusions based on a two minute video and a bunch of whispering down the lane about who did what from people who were not there.

 

I love social media In the 21st century

 

 

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[jimbo5544]

There are just so many problems with this incident, response, coverage, and reaction to it.

 

1. As this society has been prone to do as of late the blame is always on everyone except the perpetrators of the act. The incident happened because the perpetrators committed the acts. This was no one else's fault bu theirs. They are solely to blame and all attention should be focused on punishing them.

 

2. The security team did nothing wrong. If you physically assault another passenger or crew member then you ought to have the ever loving crap beat out of you. (repeatedly) These clowns should have got more than they did. Unfortunately we have a free press that is hell bent on criticizing and demonizing law enforcement and authority at the present time while they heap praise on criminals. I haven't heard of anyone being hospitalized as a result of the actions taken by the security team so apparently they didn't brutalize them enough. Also, if a crew member instructs you not to do something then you don't do it. It you don't stand around and have a debate with them in the middle of the incident. A passenger aboard a cruise ship you don't have a "right" to film when you are told not to. If you don't like that, don't go on a privately owned cruise ship.

 

See the guy in the orange shorts in this video:

 

 

He should have been beaten beyond recognition.Anyone who would assault a crew member like this has absolutely no respect for authority and is lucky he is still in one piece.

 

3. The Press/Media (or whatever you want to call them) starts with these overly sensational headlines using words like "Bloodbath". Bloodbath??? Really??? I've watched the videos and read quite a bit about the story as well as seen the aftermath photos and calling it a bloodbath is downright dishonest. I watch all the UFC fights pretty much every weekend and what occurred on those videos doesn't even compare to UFC fights. Total BS from the press.

 

4. The reaction to this on Cruise Critic has been appalling in my opinion. Our society has become a bunch of self-entitled babies who don't respect any authority or rules. What the focus should be on now is prosecuting the individuals involved in this incident instead of a starting witch hunt against the cruise industry.

 

:)

Best post of the thread....

[Keys2Heaven]

Another problem. The public is not owed an answer.

 

Everyone thinks they have a right to know everything. They do not.

 

These people likely deserved the Hell’s Angels Altamont security team and they were lucky they got the Carnival security team instead.

 

When it becomes a public relation disaster, then the public does have a right to know the outcome of the investigation and why these people were allowed to remain onboard after the first signs of trouble and fighting.

[richstowe]

Another problem. The public is not owed an answer.

 

Everyone thinks they have a right to know everything. They do not.

 

These people likely deserved the Hell’s Angels Altamont security team and they were lucky they got the Carnival security team instead.

Does it mark me as old that I get the reference ?

Does it make me horrible that it made me laugh ?

I agree with you . Plus I have no problem with people filming the mayhem but

am not shocked , shocked that security didn't wish this scene to be filmed .

[Keys2Heaven]

And you draw all these conclusions based on a two minute video and a bunch of whispering down the lane about who did what from people who were not there.

 

I love social media In the 21st century

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

At least there is a video from people who were there and not just whispering. Apparently, Carnival feels the need to have an investigation into this as well. I'll be interested in their findings.

[Keys2Heaven]

For starters: anyone crying about the security guard kicking the guy that won’t let go of the other guy

 

I don't recall people "crying" about it. There has been discussion as to whether or not this was handled adequately. We'll just have to let the investigation run its course.

[NightOne]

When it becomes a public relation disaster, then the public does have a right to know the outcome of the investigation and why these people were allowed to remain onboard after the first signs of trouble and fighting.

 

 

 

Again, regardless of your insistence that you are owed an answer, you are not.

 

Authorities, regulatory bodies, and others MAY be but the public is not.