Baseball caps in restaurants

[kinosh]

22 minutes ago, Oakman58 said:

A surprising number of men don’t even know which fork is for the salad on a properly set dinner table or that the funny looking knife on that little plate is a butter knife.  Sadly, some of my own in-laws fall into this category. 

 

Thank you for reminding me of the things I don't give a crap about.  Would you like to know how much this has affected my life?

[PATRLR]

8 minutes ago, kinosh said:

Thank you for reminding me of the things I don't give a crap about.  Would you like to know how much this has affected my life?

If you don't give a crap, why did you feel the need to comment?

[kinosh]

I use a spoon to eat my salad so that I can slurp up the dressing. LOUDLY!

[Cruiser_1977]

This thread really has me in a quandry. Manners are supposed to help define human interaction. When you introduce yourself to someone new, you hold out your hand for a handshake and vice versa. If the other person does not hold out their hand it becomes awkward. At what point do manners not matter? Eating filet mignon with your hands, talking with your mouth full, sneezing and wiping your hands on your pants then reaching for the salt shaker are these acceptable? When someone holds the door for me I say "thank you". If I am on a bus and someone older needs a seat I stand. If a pregnant woman needs a seat I stand. If I am passing someone on the street and their grocery bag were to break, I would stop and help. These are good manners and polite. Walking to the right, saying excuse me as I reach around someone at a grocery store, simple please and thank you to those that are working the cashier lane, have these become pointless? Is it laziness, self absorption, are we too busy? I honestly want to know how y'all feel....

[zitsky]

I think the attitude of some cruisers is "it's all about me.  Why should I be nice to others.  Why should I follow someone else's rules?  It's all about me me me."

[SNJCruisers]

42 minutes ago, JennyB1977 said:

 Is it laziness, self absorption, are we too busy? I honestly want to know how y'all feel....

Self absorption would be a good analogy since those that have that trait would be the type of individual to only be concerned about what they are doing and they have no clue regarding the fact that what they do may effect others.  Since NCL is the freestyle company, people that possess this trait will like to cruise on NCL since they don't have to adhere to the old main/late dining routine so they can dine when they want.  They take this concept one step further and stretch rules for their own gratification.  Such as smuggling booze, smoking on balconies, letting their rug rats run wild since they are on vacation and various other mantras of the "me generation."

[NLH Arizona]

53 minutes ago, JennyB1977 said:

These are good manners and polite. Walking to the right, saying excuse me as I reach around someone at a grocery store, simple please and thank you to those that are working the cashier lane, have these become pointless? Is it laziness, self absorption, are we too busy? I honestly want to know how y'all feel....

I believe that it is they are not taught manners as a child, at least I hope that is the reason and it is not that some just don't care. 

 

I remember when I first moved to Arizona, I went to a restaurant for lunch.  There was a 3 generational family sitting at the table in front of mine.  I looked up from my lunch and the child was eating with his mouth open and as I look at the rest of the table, so was the mother and grandfather, so I just guessed that no one was every taught you should eat with your mouth open.  The same goes for a man not giving up his seat to an elderly person, etc., if as a child they don't see their father doing it, they probably won't do it when they grow up.  I remember once while at the airport in Rome, there was an airport employee wheeling a very elderly woman in a wheelchair.  He kept asking if empty seats were free, so she could sit down.  Most said someone was coming back and some left their items on the chair and didn't respond.  I got up and said, quite loudly, that the woman was free to use my seat, as these so call gentleman couldn't find it in their manly hood to give up their prized seat to an woman who needed it.  About five men came over and offered me their seats, but I refused to take any of them and told them that I would rather stand than take their seat, because obviously they needed it more than me.

[casofilia]

Some really great points lately.  Long live manners.

[zitsky]

I'm on another travel site where we are discussing clothing etiquette.  A mod stepped in saying too much attitude. 

[fshagan]

I think it's a matter of degree. Like everything else these days, everyone goes to extremes in characterizations of the other side. 

 

When I started working, all the men had to wear suits and ties, and all the women had to wear dresses, with slips, and stockings. If you weren't dressed correctly, you were sent home without pay. When the rules started to relax you would have thought the world was ending. Chaos would ensue. 

 

We all adapted to the new normal and now I don't think its shameful to go to work without a tie. And the women still look beautiful to me, even if they are wearing pants and don't have on hose.

 

[GUEST080219]

9 hours ago, JennyB1977 said:

This thread really has me in a quandry. Manners are supposed to help define human interaction. When you introduce yourself to someone new, you hold out your hand for a handshake and vice versa. If the other person does not hold out their hand it becomes awkward. At what point do manners not matter? Eating filet mignon with your hands, talking with your mouth full, sneezing and wiping your hands on your pants then reaching for the salt shaker are these acceptable? When someone holds the door for me I say "thank you". If I am on a bus and someone older needs a seat I stand. If a pregnant woman needs a seat I stand. If I am passing someone on the street and their grocery bag were to break, I would stop and help. These are good manners and polite. Walking to the right, saying excuse me as I reach around someone at a grocery store, simple please and thank you to those that are working the cashier lane, have these become pointless? Is it laziness, self absorption, are we too busy? I honestly want to know how y'all feel....

 

There are so many different things getting mixed up in this discussion. One is etiquette stuff like the butter knife, those things that only exist for their own existence and have close to no practical use. You could get the same result just using a regular knife or even a fork or spoon. Similar with the baseball cap at dinner, no harm to anyone. And by the way I would rather see someone in good shape wearing a well fitting baseball cap that is well balanced with the rest of the outfit instead of someone wearing a traditional suit that might have been good fitting and looked sharp 20 years ago but now um not so much. 

 

Other examples like handshaking and walking to the right are not even universal but specific to some places and cultures. I personally think one of the rudest things possible is entering the personal space of another person be it touching the arm or shoulder, grabbing the hand, hugging, ...

 

[darlene62]

I agree with  ...especially within maybe last 10 years I have noticed even among friends that there is almost a fear of handshaking.  I can tell you in my ancient college days my friends (OMG this was never me) had NO problem hugging the porcelain thrown, yet today they can't even touch the door handle of the bathroom door without a tissue in hand.  Life has a way of changing you...I learned from my dad's cancer that hats are sometimes ok...my aunts Alzheimer's, that messing up on using wrong utensils is ok...I learned that my friends attachment to her phone was not due to what I thought was her self involvement but due to her fear after a domestic violence issue and the need to connect to her kids ASAP.  We don't know what is going on with the people around us. It's more important that they are not hidden away and trying to enjoy life around us ..maybe some of the past rules were too stringent???  I think one thing is certain, we are ever changing and life around us is changing, maybe for better or worse. Who knows...but one thing is certain is that we should be kind and respectful to on another...hold doors open, give up seats, smile, be polite, be friendly. be understanding that there are some things going on with the person we cant possibly understand.  I am a work in progress...I am trying to enjoy my life and not let other's action bother me especially when on vacation.   OMG with ONE HUGE EXCEPTION....DO NOT....I REPEAT DO NOT...wear white after labor day!!!!!   🙂

[cliffd64]

14 hours ago, JennyB1977 said:

This thread really has me in a quandry. Manners are supposed to help define human interaction. When you introduce yourself to someone new, you hold out your hand for a handshake and vice versa. If the other person does not hold out their hand it becomes awkward. At what point do manners not matter? Eating filet mignon with your hands, talking with your mouth full, sneezing and wiping your hands on your pants then reaching for the salt shaker are these acceptable? When someone holds the door for me I say "thank you". If I am on a bus and someone older needs a seat I stand. If a pregnant woman needs a seat I stand. If I am passing someone on the street and their grocery bag were to break, I would stop and help. These are good manners and polite. Walking to the right, saying excuse me as I reach around someone at a grocery store, simple please and thank you to those that are working the cashier lane, have these become pointless? Is it laziness, self absorption, are we too busy? I honestly want to know how y'all feel....

Here's the thing:  I cannot impose how I was brought up upon anyone else.  It is entirely pointless and illogical to worry about or be offended because someone else has a ballcap on while you are on a vacation that you paid for.  I'll take it a bit further... it's crazy.  If you are offended by this situation then YOU have the issue.  The best and only thing you can do is do what YOU believe is right.  Cruise line employees do not seek out conflict at every opportunity.  They are not going to fight every etiquette battle.  If you seek out examples of other people's boorish behavior, then you must love being miserable.  If you have a certain set of manners, this is fantastic, but the expectation that everyone will always have the same manners as you is just not feasible.  Getting upset about it is entirely on you.  How you react to things around you is no one else's fault.  I choose to mind my own manners and I don't have to pay attention to anyone else, and I never get upset about anyone else's behavior unless it directly impacts me...  Selfish?  Maybe, but I paid for my vacation, I'm not going to let a ball cap take me out of my happy place.  Live and let live...  

[Goldconnection]

Enough already with the baseball cap! I have seen much worst. If you don't believe me just spend a day by the pool. I dare you. The sights you see there are truly tacky, offensive, rude, show a lack of manners, and down right ugly. I will take a baseball cap over in a restaurant over those sights any day.

[zitsky]

1 hour ago, cliffd64 said:

Here's the thing:  I cannot impose how I was brought up upon anyone else.  It is entirely pointless and illogical to worry about or be offended because someone else has a ballcap on while you are on a vacation that you paid for.  I'll take it a bit further... it's crazy.  If you are offended by this situation then YOU have the issue.  The best and only thing you can do is do what YOU believe is right.  Cruise line employees do not seek out conflict at every opportunity.  They are not going to fight every etiquette battle.  If you seek out examples of other people's boorish behavior, then you must love being miserable.  If you have a certain set of manners, this is fantastic, but the expectation that everyone will always have the same manners as you is just not feasible.  Getting upset about it is entirely on you.  How you react to things around you is no one else's fault.  I choose to mind my own manners and I don't have to pay attention to anyone else, and I never get upset about anyone else's behavior unless it directly impacts me...  Selfish?  Maybe, but I paid for my vacation, I'm not going to let a ball cap take me out of my happy place.  Live and let live...  

 

I'm sorry I don't agree.  I'm not a miserable person just because I want Norwegian to enforce their own rules.  Why not let anyone go to dinner in shorts and flip flops?  That seems to be the point of this thread.  If Norwegian says it's ok, then it's ok with me.  Maybe you should ask them to change their rules?

 

The pool and restaurant have different standards.  I hope I don't see swimsuits in the restaurant LOL.

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by zitsky

[LrgPizza]

That fact that this post even exists on the NCL forum, when it has nothing to do with NCL cruise line, is everything that's wrong with CC.

[cliffd64]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

 

I'm sorry I don't agree.  I'm not a miserable person just because I want Norwegian to enforce their own rules.  Why not let anyone go to dinner in shorts and flip flops?  That seems to be the point of this thread.  If Norwegian says it's ok, then it's ok with me.  Maybe you should ask them to change their rules?

 

The pool and restaurant have different standards.  I hope I don't see swimsuits in the restaurant LOL.

 

 

 

You can police everyone's wardrobe if you want... I will enjoy myself and be stress free.  

[zitsky]

1 hour ago, LrgPizza said:

That fact that this post even exists on the NCL forum, when it has nothing to do with NCL cruise line, is everything that's wrong with CC.

 

It relates to NCL dress code.  Each cruise line is different.  We're kind of disagreeing to live and let live.  

[zitsky]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

 

It relates to NCL dress code.  Each cruise line is different.  We're kind of disagreeing to live and let live.  

 

Kind of agreeing to live and let live.

[LrgPizza]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

 

It relates to NCL dress code.  Each cruise line is different.  We're kind of disagreeing to live and let live.  

The original post wasn't talking about that. It was asking about dress codes of American men, not dress codes on NCL ships. It should have been moved right out of the gate, but that rarely happens on this forum, even when the mods post and say it will start being enforced. It still isn't.

[Oakman58]

I think this thread is appropriate for the NCL board since the original poster was talking about American men he saw on the Norwegian Star.   I'll be on a Holland America cruise this June so I think it will be interesting to see how their dress code is, or isn't, enforced and if baseball caps are worn in the main dining room.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Oakman58

[electro]

4 hours ago, cliffd64 said:

Here's the thing:  I cannot impose how I was brought up upon anyone else.  It is entirely pointless and illogical to worry about or be offended because someone else has a ballcap on while you are on a vacation that you paid for.  I'll take it a bit further... it's crazy.  If you are offended by this situation then YOU have the issue.  The best and only thing you can do is do what YOU believe is right.  Cruise line employees do not seek out conflict at every opportunity.  They are not going to fight every etiquette battle.  If you seek out examples of other people's boorish behavior, then you must love being miserable.  If you have a certain set of manners, this is fantastic, but the expectation that everyone will always have the same manners as you is just not feasible.  Getting upset about it is entirely on you.  How you react to things around you is no one else's fault.  I choose to mind my own manners and I don't have to pay attention to anyone else, and I never get upset about anyone else's behavior unless it directly impacts me...  Selfish?  Maybe, but I paid for my vacation, I'm not going to let a ball cap take me out of my happy place.  Live and let live...  

Well said!!

[buzzard05]

On 10/27/2018 at 6:31 PM, zitsky said:

 

I feel sorry for him, but I'd rather not see caps at dinner.  I hope he gets over his hang up.

 

....as I hope you get over yours as well.  

[Expat Cruise]

We should not forget that many religions require the head to be covered.  I have friends who in public will wear baseball caps in place of  kippah. 

[zitsky]

6 minutes ago, buzzard05 said:

 

....as I hope you get over yours as well.  

 

Look I did say in my last post live and let live.  Will I be a miserable person if I see a baseball cap?  Heck no.  I'll let NCL apply whatever the dress code is.