Flight canceled and cruise missed

[payitforward]

1 hour ago, BNBR said:

 

100% for one cruise.  Someone who wins the lotto first time playing would be 100%.  Would you empty your 401k and buy lotto tickets? 

 

Stats from bts.gov 

 

Anyways, at least you put a value on it for yourself.  Just all the "you need insurance" posts need a rebuttal in my opinion.  It's no different than gambling. The house wins. If you are ok with the math and find value in it, sure, but at least people should understand both sides. I enjoy the casino, too, but I wouldnt imply it's a good investment... 

 

By the way, you would still have the suck of missing a cruise in regards to cancelation insurance.  I would rather have $20k in the bank and just pay for another cruise... But that's me 😁

For me it comes down to one thing: I have the money to pay for trip insurance and not use it. I don't have the money to pay for a ship evacuation and hospitalization if I DO need it. If I had that kind of money, it would be worth it to self-insure. If I had enough money that I didn't care about losing my airfare, cruise fare, etc. I would self-insure. It's just not a reasonable option for many.

 

 

There's also the fact that arriving a day or two early is far more relaxing than stressing about flight delays and rushing to the ship.

Edited December 25, 2018 by payitforward

[BNBR]

12 minutes ago, payitforward said:

For me it comes down to one thing: I have the money to pay for trip insurance and not use it. I don't have the money to pay for a ship evacuation and hospitalization if I DO need it. If I had that kind of money, it would be worth it to self-insure. If I had enough money that I didn't care about losing my airfare, cruise fare, etc. I would self-insure. It's just not a reasonable option for many.

 

 

There's also the fact that arriving a day or two early is far more relaxing than stressing about flight delays and rushing to the ship.

 

You can buy evacuation separate from comprehensive/trip cancellation and it's generally much cheaper.

 

I don't disagree with your thinking.  My comment about arriving the day before was in response to a post about arriving a day early because of canceled/delayed flights.  I pointed out the math doesn't really work that way.  If you prefer to show up early to not deal with travel and like to just be early and relaxed, that makes total sense.  I was just trying to point out that statistically/financially, you are better off flying the day of.  I get travel anxiety so I totally get getting there early and starting your vacation early!

 

As for "not a reasonable option for many" - that again just doesn't make sense.  A cruise is already paid for.  You aren't worried about a catastrophic and unexpected financial hit like evac.  The ONLY thing you lose by not going on your cruise, is the cruise itself.  You are sad, disappointed, but you aren't losing a penny. So literally everyone that can pay for a cruise can also afford to lose it.  In fact, you would recover a lot of ancillary expenses like port fees, drink packages, excursions, taxes, etc.... and financially come out ahead.  Which is why insuring against "coming out ahead" is utterly ridiculous.  You DO have enough money to lose your airfare and cruisefare... because you had enough money to ALREADY pay for it!

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by BNBR

[BND]

On 12/23/2018 at 2:21 PM, S.A.M.J.R. said:

In the OP's defense, telling them a month before the cruise that they should arrive the day/night before doesn't really help.  The plane tickets were probably already booked and changing them at that late date would be extremely expensive.   Granted, probably not as expensive as what they're facing now, but still...

It also does not hurt and it's not anyone who gave advice's fault that the OP didn't book for an earlier arrival, etc.  We've been on 25 cruises and have bought insurance for every one.  We have several upcoming trips and have insurance for them too.  We've never had to use it, but do not regret for a single second purchasing it.  Anyone who books a vacation and doesn't get insurance has no one but themselves to blame if it doesn't work out.  No one giving advice is to blame for the OP's situation and being "nice" about it doesn't help either.

[PhoenixCruiser]

1 minute ago, BND said:

It also does not hurt and it's not anyone who gave advice's fault that the OP didn't book for an earlier arrival, etc.  We've been on 25 cruises and have bought insurance for every one.  We have several upcoming trips and have insurance for them too.  We've never had to use it, but do not regret for a single second purchasing it.  Anyone who books a vacation and doesn't get insurance has no one but themselves to blame if it doesn't work out.  No one giving advice is to blame for the OP's situation and being "nice" about it doesn't help either.

 

 

Same here, especially since now both of us have preexisting conditions.

 

@BNBR - save your lecture as you are now just repeating yourself.

[SRF]

7 hours ago, payitforward said:

For me it comes down to one thing: I have the money to pay for trip insurance and not use it. I don't have the money to pay for a ship evacuation and hospitalization if I DO need it. If I had that kind of money, it would be worth it to self-insure. If I had enough money that I didn't care about losing my airfare, cruise fare, etc. I would self-insure. It's just not a reasonable option for many.

 

I self insure the trip cost.  I have already paid for cruise and flights.  If I miss them, I will be disappointed, but not financially devastated.

 

But a medical emergency or med evac could be.

 

So I buy trip insurance, but do not cover the trip cost ($0 trip cost).

 

Travel insurance costs me $32 per trip.  

 

So far I have not flown to a cruise (I like 30 minutes from Baltimore port), but will fly in a day early.  Time to relax and get into vacation mind set.

[mugtech]

39 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

  

 

So far I have not flown to a cruise (I like 30 minutes from Baltimore port), but will fly in a day early.  Time to relax and get into vacation mind set.

I, too, can't wait for ovation and oasis class ships to port in Baltimore.  Nothing like getting into port a day early, take in an O's game. 

[GUT2407]

To me it’s about the health, medical, evacuation repatriation.

 

i could swallow the cruise cost, but if I fell and broke a hip etc (and I have frequent falls at the best of times) it could ruin me, and yes I pay a truck load extra because I have prevexisting conditions, the little extra I then need to pay to go comprehensive makes it, for me, a no brainer.

[BNBR]

43 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

To me it’s about the health, medical, evacuation repatriation.

 

i could swallow the cruise cost, but if I fell and broke a hip etc (and I have frequent falls at the best of times) it could ruin me, and yes I pay a truck load extra because I have prevexisting conditions, the little extra I then need to pay to go comprehensive makes it, for me, a no brainer.

 

There are credit cards that provide this coverage.  It may be worth going that route and reviewing how they deal with pre existing conditions. Might be a much cheaper option and worth exploring.  The Chase card, for example, even provides trip cancelation coverage. 

 

Also, many health insurance policies DO cover international medical costs. If you haven't already, definitely call and review yours carefully. Evac and repatriation is super cheap, so if your health insurance already covers the medical, you could probably save a ton of money as it's possible you are paying for insurance that you already have. 

 

For clarity, I've always said people would be crazy to travel overseas without medical and evac.  

 

Happy sailing! 

Edited December 25, 2018 by BNBR

[SargassoPirate]

1 hour ago, mugtech said:

I, too, can't wait for ovation and oasis class ships to port in Baltimore.  Nothing like getting into port a day early, take in an O's game. 

 

When's that going to happen?  I thought Baltimore was limited as to the size of the ships because of the Dundalk bridge.  Isn't that why the Grandeur has been based there for so long - it can fit under the bridge?

[mugtech]

10 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

When's that going to happen?  I thought Baltimore was limited as to the size of the ships because of the Dundalk bridge.  Isn't that why the Grandeur has been based there for so long - it can fit under the bridge?

Was being sarcastic about the ships and the Orioles.

[DirtyDawg]

13 hours ago, BNBR said:

 

Again, just bad math.  The percentage of flights delayed long enough to miss your cruise, assuming a reasonable arrival (10am or so), is insignificant.  Canceled flights are less than 1/2 of 1% as well.  

 

If someone is spending on average $150 to book a hotel and fly the day before, not counting possible extra missed work, you would save $15-$20k, at least, before you would be statistically likely to miss a cruise.  Extra days missed work, and that could double or triple.  This wouldn't be counting substantial compound interest, too. Which could again be multiples more.  Buy a lot of cruises with that money. 

 

It's just a bad gamble. It's ok if it makes people feel better, so be it, but let's at least recognize you are way better off self insuring and putting the savings away. You could pay for a heck of a lot of cruises with all the trip cancelation and day-before hotel costs that people are throwing money away on. 

 

I agree with you 99%. 

If there is a 1 in 100 chance of missing the cruise due to a same day flight issue that loss could occur on flight # 1, flight # 100, or any flight in between, so I wouldn't include any coumpound interest into the savings calculation.

 

Just my nickel's worth (no cents anymore in Canada)

 

Have a 100% Happy Holidays!

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by DirtyDawg

[BNBR]

19 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

 

I agree with you 99%. 

If there is a 1 in 100 chance of missing the cruise due to a same day flight issue that loss could occur on flight # 1, flight # 100, or any flight in between, so I wouldn't include any coumpound interest into the savings calculation.

 

Just my nickel's worth (no cents anymore in Canada)

 

Have a 100% Happy Holidays!

 

 

Something else to consider is that you are reducing your exposure with every cruise savings.  I did the numbers on another thread not long ago. Just on insurance alone it was something like 6-7 cruises break even. (note that cancelation insurance typically only reimburses half, not the full fare). If you add in day before hotel costs, it is even more drastic. 

 

You would still have compound interest regardless of which flight it is. If it's flight 1, then the savings on flight 2 would compound.  Over 20-30 years of cruising, it's truly astonishing how much money people are spending on insurance and what not. It's fascinating when you start putting the numbers together. Would you spend $100,000 to insure a $2500 cruise that only reimburses you $1250 if you qualify for reimbursement? ($500/year in hotel and insurance savings over a 30 year period at market average return assuming just 2 cruises per year) 

 

Enjoy your holidays too! We have a New Years cruise leaving this weekend. My first holiday cruise. Can't wait. 

Edited December 25, 2018 by BNBR

[DirtyDawg]

6 minutes ago, BNBR said:

 

Something else to consider is that you are reducing your exposure with every cruise savings.  I did the numbers on another thread not long ago. Just on insurance alone it was something like 6-7 cruises break even. (note that cancelation insurance typically only reimburses half, not the full fare). If you add in day before hotel costs, it is even more drastic. 

 

You would still have compound interest regardless of which flight it is. If it's flight 1, then the savings on flight 2 would compound. Over 20-30 years of cruising, it's truly astonishing how much money people are spending on insurance and what not. It's fascinating when you start putting the numbers together. Would you spend $30,000 to insure a $2500 cruise that only reimburses you $1250 if you qualify for reimbursement?

 

Enjoy your holidays too! We have a New Years cruise leaving this weekend. My first holiday cruise. Can't wait. 

 

No Holiday cruise for us this year. We are doing an AI in Mexico over New Years. I'll wave to the cruise ships sailing by.

 

[BNBR]

13 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

 

No Holiday cruise for us this year. We are doing an AI in Mexico over New Years. I'll wave to the cruise ships sailing by.

 

 

That sounds awesome too. Enjoy! 

[orville99]

14 hours ago, BNBR said:

 

Again, just bad math.  The percentage of flights delayed long enough to miss your cruise, assuming a reasonable arrival (10am or so), is insignificant.  Canceled flights are less than 1/2 of 1% as well.  

 

If someone is spending on average $150 to book a hotel and fly the day before, not counting possible extra missed work, you would save $15-$20k, at least, before you would be statistically likely to miss a cruise.  Extra days missed work, and that could double or triple.  This wouldn't be counting substantial compound interest, too. Which could again be multiples more.  Buy a lot of cruises with that money. 

 

It's just a bad gamble. It's ok if it makes people feel better, so be it, but let's at least recognize you are way better off self insuring and putting the savings away. You could pay for a heck of a lot of cruises with all the trip cancelation and day-before hotel costs that people are throwing money away on. 

That's the fun thing about statistics - they can be massaged to support any preconceived position in any way you choose. As Twain said, "there are three types of lies - lies, damnable lies, and statistics."

[SargassoPirate]

3 hours ago, mugtech said:

Was being sarcastic about the ships and the Orioles.

 

Oh, went right over my head.👌 

[Loonbeam]

17 hours ago, BNBR said:

 

Again, just bad math.  The percentage of flights delayed long enough to miss your cruise, assuming a reasonable arrival (10am or so), is insignificant.  Canceled flights are less than 1/2 of 1% as well.  

 

If someone is spending on average $150 to book a hotel and fly the day before, not counting possible extra missed work, you would save $15-$20k, at least, before you would be statistically likely to miss a cruise.  Extra days missed work, and that could double or triple.  This wouldn't be counting substantial compound interest, too. Which could again be multiples more.  Buy a lot of cruises with that money. 

 

It's just a bad gamble. It's ok if it makes people feel better, so be it, but let's at least recognize you are way better off self insuring and putting the savings away. You could pay for a heck of a lot of cruises with all the trip cancelation and day-before hotel costs that people are throwing money away on. 

While that holds true as general statistics, its a bad idea to be that general.

 

If you fly out of the northern half of the US in winter, there's a much higher chance of likely delays or cancellations.  If you fly from an airport that is not a hub, meaning connecting flights, the chance increases.  If you are flying in FL during peak storm season, chance increases.  If you are flying internationally, chance of issues and strikes increase.   If you are older, chance of a medical issue increases.  If you have a special needs family member, chance of cancellation increases.   If you have booked a suite, cost of loss increases relative to cost of early travel, etc.

 

Trip cancellation/interuption insurance does NOT make sense for EVERY trip (we're not taking it on our next Oasis cruise because we are driving to the port - we just took overseas medical and medivac which is cheap compared to potential costs).   That doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ANY trip.   Each cruising group should assess the cost of the policy versus the risk in their specific situation and their ability to absorb the costs of cancellation.

 

Also worth noting is most policies also cover things like trip delay costs, lost luggage costs, trip interruption costs.  All of those can be more impactful than just missing the cruise (even if still rare).  

 

There's NEVER a blanket answer when it comes to insurance. 

 

[mugtech]

6 hours ago, orville99 said:

That's the fun thing about statistics - they can be massaged to support any preconceived position in any way you choose. As Twain said, "there are three types of lies - lies, damnable lies, and statistics."

Do believe Sam Clemens was quoting Ben Disraeli, does not change the concept.

[SRF]

21 hours ago, mugtech said:

I, too, can't wait for ovation and oasis class ships to port in Baltimore.  Nothing like getting into port a day early, take in an O's game. 

 

Not going to happen unless the cut a few decks off.  They won't fit under the bridges.

[SRF]

19 hours ago, DirtyDawg said:

 

I agree with you 99%. 

If there is a 1 in 100 chance of missing the cruise due to a same day flight issue that loss could occur on flight # 1, flight # 100, or any flight in between, so I wouldn't include any coumpound interest into the savings calculation.

 

Just my nickel's worth (no cents anymore in Canada)

 

Have a 100% Happy Holidays!

 

 

And if it occurs on your first cruise.  It is still 1 in 100 on your next cruise.

 

Entirely possible to happen on 2 or even 3 cruises in a row.

[mugtech]

1 hour ago, SRF said:

 

Not going to happen unless the cut a few decks off.  They won't fit under the bridges.

See #85.

[lazydayz]

On 12/25/2018 at 12:47 PM, Loonbeam said:

While that holds true as general statistics, its a bad idea to be that general.

 

If you fly out of the northern half of the US in winter, there's a much higher chance of likely delays or cancellations.  If you fly from an airport that is not a hub, meaning connecting flights, the chance increases.  If you are flying in FL during peak storm season, chance increases.  If you are flying internationally, chance of issues and strikes increase.   If you are older, chance of a medical issue increases.  If you have a special needs family member, chance of cancellation increases.   If you have booked a suite, cost of loss increases relative to cost of early travel, etc.

 

Trip cancellation/interuption insurance does NOT make sense for EVERY trip (we're not taking it on our next Oasis cruise because we are driving to the port - we just took overseas medical and medivac which is cheap compared to potential costs).   That doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ANY trip.   Each cruising group should assess the cost of the policy versus the risk in their specific situation and their ability to absorb the costs of cancellation.

 

Also worth noting is most policies also cover things like trip delay costs, lost luggage costs, trip interruption costs.  All of those can be more impactful than just missing the cruise (even if still rare).  

 

There's NEVER a blanket answer when it comes to insurance. 

 

Agreed that it is a personal decision that should be made trip by trip.  We have five cruises booked, and only purchased trip insurance for the one we are bringing the grands.  Others are inexpensive and leave from Florida, so ports are within easy driving, and we pay for cruises with a credit card that provides trip insurance for first two cruisers.  Most of the time, it does not make good sense for us to purchase extra insurance. 

[Grandma Dazzles]

2 hours ago, lazydayz said:

Agreed that it is a personal decision that should be made trip by trip.  We have five cruises booked, and only purchased trip insurance for the one we are bringing the grands.  Others are inexpensive and leave from Florida, so ports are within easy driving, and we pay for cruises with a credit card that provides trip insurance for first two cruisers.  Most of the time, it does not make good sense for us to purchase extra insurance. 

 

Assume you are purchasing or have medical insurance. Agree that every insurance need is different, but so many still don’t check out what their personal needs might be. 

[lazydayz]

19 minutes ago, Grandma Dazzles said:

 

Assume you are purchasing or have medical insurance. Agree that every insurance need is different, but so many still don’t check out what their personal needs might be. 

My medical insurance covers me worldwide. And you are correct that everyone should check their coverage before sailing. Too many sad stories on CC not to verify. 

[BND]

36 minutes ago, lazydayz said:

My medical insurance covers me worldwide. And you are correct that everyone should check their coverage before sailing. Too many sad stories on CC not to verify. 

Does it cover evacuation?  A lot of people forget that part.  If you need to be flown back via medical transport, that isn't covered by health/medical insurance and it's not cheap.