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PatG2

HELP! Azamara is trying to cancel my trip because of their mistake! Horrible Cruise!

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3 hours ago, rallydave said:

Thanks for the information.  Suggest you read the latest post on the thread What Happens to the Cuba Cruises.  While not the same as your mistake fare, it does show how azamara tries to take advantage of their customers for business purposes.  Interestingly the almost exact thing happened when azamara was gearing up for higher fares and more Cuba cruise.  They moved a West bound TA a month earlier expecting passengers to pay the same amount for a cruise 4 days shorter with 3 fewer ports.  Appears to be no matter what azamara always wins at the expense of the customer..

 

 

Interesting that many posters on the Cuba cruises topic are saying they they are very happy with Azamara’s offer regarding cancelled Cuba Intensive cruises

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Host Grandma Cruising said:

Interesting that many posters on the Cuba cruises topic are saying they they are very happy with Azamara’s offer regarding cancelled Cuba Intensive cruises

I think you cannot generalise on this issue. 

 

There are two groups of guests affected, those on the Cuba intensive and those on the Transatlantic.  The offer being made is very different between the two groups and there are people unhappy with the Transatlantic offer and cancelling. Others are keeping their Transatlantic trip because of flight arrangements they are locked into but are still not impressed. 

 

The position was exacerbated by a post on these boards that led those on the Transatlantic to believe quite realistically that the terms for the Cubs intensive applied also to the Transatlantic which is not the case. 

 

As as I am booked on both the Transatlantic and a  Cuba intensive I think I am well placed to comment on the reality of both. It’s been a challenge, we are still juggling the options today as one way Transatlantic flights are involved and getting like for like on another date is impossible even allowing for the change fee refunds being offered to round Cuba bookers. 

 

However, when you separate out your personal frustrations at juggling to try and get things to work, what is being offered on both cruises goes well beyond what Azamara needed to offer in circumstances beyond their control. I am still trying to work out our replacement logistics but between Azamara and if need be my travel Insurance I will get there and I believe Azamara will be very fair.

 

But yes, I can see how some guests might be frustrated on the Transatlantic and how some initial loose communication will have contributed to that. However clocks don’t go backwards so focus on what you are getting, what you can salvage and is that worth keeping FOR YOU and if it’s not take the refunded cancellation option and move on. 

 

That is what we are doing. We are not yet at the end of the process but we will get to a great decision I am sure. 

Edited by uktog

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Posted (edited)
On 6/13/2019 at 1:04 PM, hubofhockey said:

 

Well, I don't think I have anything to apologize for, but I did want to clarify that I wasn't bullying you and do understand your frustration because I have been there with them.  I never got one apology or official email from Azamara after they deleted my itinerary and failed to communicate it to me or my TA.  I get it.  I also get the oceanview thing.  I could see balcony plus refundable credit and an apology for the miscommunication.  I think I'd want something reasonable like that, but who knows?  Good luck.

 

 

 

Ha!  Someone hit the nail on the head here.  😎

 

Seriously, I'm happy for OP that this got worked out.  The $500 OBC should take care of the specialty dining plus wifi.  I don't think the original Azamara offer was reasonable.  As Pat suggests, it was within their rights, but just because something is within rights, doesn't mean it's fair.  

 

Pat, with respect to contract law, they may have had the right to rescind the mistaken price.  However, I always believed that they still had legal liability to you in terms of the legal concept of "detrimental reliance".  Your reliance on the contract was reasonable, given that you did call about it multiple times.  The rescission on Azamara'a part should be to make you whole and that would be the price of your airfare or cancellation penalties.  Maybe $500 OBC plus bargain of balcony cabin, in fact covers that.  It was never worth it for you to litigate this.  It would have cost more than the flights (although AZ might have lost and had to pay your legal fees).  The best outcome you could get was a better settlement and you got that.  

 

Pat, have a great cruise.  

Edited by hubofhockey

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OP, thank you for coming back with an update.  Often we never find out how a problem was resolved, and I’m glad to hear that an acceptable, if not ideal,  resolution was reached.  I hope you enjoy your cruise.

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5 hours ago, Host Grandma Cruising said:

Interesting that many posters on the Cuba cruises topic are saying they they are very happy with Azamara’s offer regarding cancelled Cuba Intensive cruises

That's one of the huge problems with azamara's home office.  They are extremely inconsistent with how they handle changes, issues and things within and not within their control.  These inconsistencies certainly apply to their so called promotions that in many cases have prices the same or even more than the previous "full" price.

 

Remember vividly a promotion that promised a number of "free" nites depending on the length of the cruise and the category booked.  We had the soon to be cancelled TA booked and included in this so called  promotion so wanted to take advantage of the promotion.  Well, overnight when the promotion began, the price for our category increased to the exact dollar amount to the penny (and cruises are almost always priced to the whole dollar) and taking the free nites away the price was exactly the same as it was the previous day and what we booked at.  Extremely deceptive.  While our cruise was included in a promotion that kept the price identical, others reported that their cruises resulted in reduced pricing for their cruises.

 

Yes HGC some people are happy while others are not.  That's the story of the horrid home office and how they are not transparent and treat people and their cruises different seemingly depending on the whim of the home office.  Have a promotion or don't have a promotion; have a policy or don't have a policy but, apply them equally to all and don't have the many gimmick promotions that result in no change in pricing while being hyped as promotions.

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Thanks for the update.  I'm disappointed that Azamara wouldn't give you a balcony cabin, as I feel that would have been a much fairer offer to you and would have provided a bit more goodwill. 

 

Enjoy your cruise!

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1 minute ago, hiccups said:

Thanks for the update.  I'm disappointed that Azamara wouldn't give you a balcony cabin, as I feel that would have been a much fairer offer to you and would have provided a bit more goodwill. 

 

Enjoy your cruise!

Thanks hiccups. I thought it was a reasonable ask. Hoping the experience from here on forward is all positive.

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20 minutes ago, PatG2 said:

Thanks hiccups. I thought it was a reasonable ask. Hoping the experience from here on forward is all positive.

Pat, i think after the cruise you should open a CC dispute as one poster mentioned, CC companies usually err in the side of the consumer and the burden of proof would be on Azmara, you could upload the confirmations and boarding passes as proof.  Do not think you will have anything to lose..  

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Patg2:  as I previously told you, a mistake of fact can cancel an attempted contract. On the other hand, I agree with you  that ethically and for good will, Azamara should make you a reasonable offer. Glad that you were ultimately satisfied with Azamara's offer of OV with perks. Enjoy your cruise.

As to a few other posters, I have the right to state my opinion (which was legally correct), even if contrary to the majority, without nasty responses. That's why I don't think I have to apologize ,but perhaps others should.

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A unilateral mistake of fact might be a defense, but the person so claiming would have a high burden to explain how the allegedly incorrect price made it onto various web sites and then was confirmed, to believe our OP, multiple times.  Once someone relies upon the confirmation, by booking plane tickets, getting vacation time approved, coordinating with others, the person claiming unilateral mistake has an even harder time with the defense.  This might be a mutual mistake of fact situation, if the price offered was unreasonably low and thus the OP knew the deal was too good to be true, but given that cruise lines advertise all sorts of prices and promotions, what is reasonable might not be known.  

 

In the cruise industry, there is no Kelley Blue Book reflecting actual transactions, nor is there a market reported daily on-line and in the WSJ showing prices.  Thus, it is tough to tell what others actually paid. 

 

We do not have the benefit here of the actual difference, so we're just guessing.

 

If the OP remains disaffected by the result, as I observed earlier, if she fits within the time periods of the Fair Credit Billing Act, she can file a dispute with her credit card company for not receiving what she purchased.  Whether she will prevail, or not, is unknown.  Generally, one must write (not call) within 60 days of the statement on which the challenged charge is posted.  A billing error includes "A reflection on a statement of goods or services not accepted by the obligor or his designee or not delivered to the obligor or his designee in accordance with the agreement made at the time of a transaction."  

 

The OP may also have a small claims court remedy.  She appears to be from Florida, where RCCL is headquartered.  I don't know whether her cruise contract has a venue provision, but cruise contracts typically do.  If venue is in Florida, then she may have a court remedy as well.  

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My mistake - I thought AZ offered OP the verandah cabin (and the $500 OBC)  I think that would have been a good compromise or workout.  Again, the thing that bothers me most here is that the OP spent money in reliance of the cruise confirmation. 

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We regularly do the same.  As soon as we book our cruise or land arrangements, we go to work on the air portion, especially if we are using miles or points.  While those are usually callable with a small penalty, if the travel company changes the dates, we can't find replacement flights at all or at the prior price.  It's one thing for a cruise line to respond to booking a cruise within a day or so that some mistake has been made, and explain the mistake, it's another thing to send multiple confirmations before someone figures it out.  

 

Detrimental reliance is well-covered in the law of contracts.

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I believe the cruise was booked on a Friday night; there isn’t anyone in the office until Monday (or Tuesday if Monday is a holiday) to find a discrepancy.  I believe this is true of most cruise lines.  The booking agents are simply that; they don’t look for price discrepancies, they simply book, send confirmations and accept payments.  As far as multiple confirmations, you can call and ask for as many as you want, same as having them sent to you online.

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34 minutes ago, SoCalTraveler said:

We regularly do the same.  As soon as we book our cruise or land arrangements, we go to work on the air portion, especially if we are using miles or points.  While those are usually callable with a small penalty, if the travel company changes the dates, we can't find replacement flights at all or at the prior price.  It's one thing for a cruise line to respond to booking a cruise within a day or so that some mistake has been made, and explain the mistake, it's another thing to send multiple confirmations before someone figures it out.  

 

Detrimental reliance is well-covered in the law of contracts.

 

Have you ever collected on this legal theory?  As Yogi said, "In theory, theory and practice and the same – but in practice they're different."

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If a merchant does not wish to be bound by a transaction outside of the merchant's normal business hours, the merchant should say so.  Perhaps in this day and age such a merchant would fail if it did not have 24/7 capability, but that is the merchant's choice.

 

In my situation detailed above, our TA booked a cruise for us, and spoke with people at RCCL to confirm how to account for the FCC.  Thereafter, RCCL generated a contract, sent it to our agent, she sent it to us, and we approved it and sent it back to the agent.  About a day later, RCCL called and reported that the FCC we had had for nearly two years had been issued by an employee without authority to issue an FCC, and that had not been spotted until the fully-executed contract was reviewed by higher-ups, who decided not to stand behind RCCL's promise.  They were willing to let us have the FCC as an OBC, but were unwilling to commit to its combinability with the shareholder benefit and our TA's promotions, telling us, I kid you not, we should discuss this with the purser after boarding.  (There was also an issue that the promotion under which we had booked had expired, and they did not know how to deal with this as they had to issue a new contract.)  We told them that if RCCL was unwilling to stand behind the FCC, RCCL could cancel, otherwise we were showing up in Galveston. 

 

My point is that if companies do not wish to let their low level employees be in a position to bind the company, they ought to say so.  It would be easy for a cruise line to say, your cruise contract is not valid until some higher up has reviewed it because the folks we put on the phones can't be trusted to get things right and our computer programmers work from their mother's basements.  Until then, I think we have a right to rely on what we are told, especially in a signed contract.

 

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14 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

Have you ever collected on this legal theory?  As Yogi said, "In theory, theory and practice and the same – but in practice they're different."

Have we ever collected?  

 

Yes.  Multiple times. Both personally and professionally. I expect people to keep their contracts.  If someone comes to me promptly and says they made a mistake I can respect that.  If they don't do that, I expect them to keep their word.  

 

In the instance I described a few pages ago with RCCL, we had an FCC that RCCL had given us to resolve a prior issue.  Among other things, an RCCL employee insulted DW across a roomful of people, and RCCL, against the CD's recommendation, refused to apologize.  Ordinarily, you'd get a platter of chocolate covered strawberries or a free specialty dinner.  (We had a broken refrigerator on a cruise--and they are not really refrigerators--and the purser kept sending stuff which needed to be refrigerated.  We had a good chuckle with him, but he said that sending a platter or a bottle was their way of apologizing, and since we had a liquor package, we got a platter.)

 

So after RCCL cancelled our contract, I finally managed to escalate the problem (no easy task), and it was thoroughly reviewed.  RCCL reported they had listened to tape recordings of my calls (and those of my TA) and had identified at least ten instances where RCCL employees had not complied with RCCL company policy.  I told RCCL to write me a check for the FCC, and I was told RCCL would not do so, but would give us essentially unlimited time to use the credit, amazingly, as an FCC.  Right.  The same credit they would not let me an FCC earlier was now an unlimited time FCC.  As I said, I made them an offer they could not refuse, and RCCL wrote a check for the full amount of the FCC.

 

Now I'm going to move on to a project this afternoon involving some folks who gave my client a copy of a contract and swore under oath it was genuine.  Now they swear under oath it's a forgery.  A few more dollars are involved than the OP's problem, but at some point we'll figure out if they owe my client anything.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, laurieb said:

I believe the cruise was booked on a Friday night; there isn’t anyone in the office until Monday (or Tuesday if Monday is a holiday) to find a discrepancy.  I believe this is true of most cruise lines.  The booking agents are simply that; they don’t look for price discrepancies, they simply book, send confirmations and accept payments.  As far as multiple confirmations, you can call and ask for as many as you want, same as having them sent to you online.

 

The OP says he spoke to an AZ supervisor the next day.  The booking could not have been on a Friday night if that statement is accurate.  

 

Th OP is satisfied with the resolution so I think that should put an end to this.  

 

Edited by SoBaycruiser

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May 31 2019 was a Friday.  OP stated in first post.

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Sounds like we all need to get a copy of the authorization to commit the company from whoever we book with before paying our money.  That said, if the people represent that they can approve the contract by taking the money the problem is with the cruise line putting people into that position without proper training.  

 

And, when the purchase takes place does not matter if there is not a statement in the confirmation that acceptance is subject to higher level review.  Without that sort of notification, the cruise line is at risk for what their employee agrees to.  Putting someone on a phone bank without the authority to consummate the contract and not having a written statement on the confirmation is how these things happen and as a professional company, the company is at risk for failure to cover their butts.

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3 hours ago, SoCalTraveler said:

Have we ever collected?  

 

Yes.  Multiple times. Both personally and professionally. I expect people to keep their contracts.  If someone comes to me promptly and says they made a mistake I can respect that.  If they don't do that, I expect them to keep their word.  

 

In the instance I described a few pages ago with RCCL, we had an FCC that RCCL had given us to resolve a prior issue.  Among other things, an RCCL employee insulted DW across a roomful of people, and RCCL, against the CD's recommendation, refused to apologize.  Ordinarily, you'd get a platter of chocolate covered strawberries or a free specialty dinner.  (We had a broken refrigerator on a cruise--and they are not really refrigerators--and the purser kept sending stuff which needed to be refrigerated.  We had a good chuckle with him, but he said that sending a platter or a bottle was their way of apologizing, and since we had a liquor package, we got a platter.)

 

So after RCCL cancelled our contract, I finally managed to escalate the problem (no easy task), and it was thoroughly reviewed.  RCCL reported they had listened to tape recordings of my calls (and those of my TA) and had identified at least ten instances where RCCL employees had not complied with RCCL company policy.  I told RCCL to write me a check for the FCC, and I was told RCCL would not do so, but would give us essentially unlimited time to use the credit, amazingly, as an FCC.  Right.  The same credit they would not let me an FCC earlier was now an unlimited time FCC.  As I said, I made them an offer they could not refuse, and RCCL wrote a check for the full amount of the FCC.

 

Now I'm going to move on to a project this afternoon involving some folks who gave my client a copy of a contract and swore under oath it was genuine.  Now they swear under oath it's a forgery.  A few more dollars are involved than the OP's problem, but at some point we'll figure out if they owe my client anything.  

 

Your personal example is not a legal victory, just a perseverance victory.  Your clients don't seem to be going after a cruise line as in your or OP's situation.  So my question stands: do you have any personal [not hearsay] knowledge of someone successfully suing a cruise line under your "detrimental reliance" theory.  I know we studied this in law school.  I also know that what actually benefits clients in real life is very different from what we studied in law school.  The truest thing in this entire thread may be this quote:

5 hours ago, SoCalTraveler said:

Whethershe will prevail, or not, is unknown.


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I have rarely seen reliance claims made in any context.  

 

What will benefit folks in real life is to complain effectively and to, as you put it, persevere.  

 

We're booked for an Azamara cruise next year.  

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4 hours ago, SoCalTraveler said:

I have rarely seen reliance claims made in any context.  

 

What will benefit folks in real life is to complain effectively and to, as you put it, persevere.  

 

We're booked for an Azamara cruise next year.  

 

Promissory Estoppel or Reliance are similar and judges use them against the maker of a contract.  I would think you would see these more often in small claims matters as larger disputes wouldn't even make it to court.  It's all part of rescission.  

 

I do agree that the timeline of events is not clear and all facts here are not present.  

 

In any case, Pat appears "satisfied" to some extent and moving on.  

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On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 3:53 PM, hubofhockey said:

 

Not to hijack this thread, but I am disappointed in Royal Caribbean.  I purchased a future cruise credit for $200 and didn't know at the time that it's not combinable with anything.  I want my money back, but they say it's not refundable.  That's kind of a scam.  I can always get OBC from a travel agent and will never use it and never get my money back.  Maybe I need to make some calls.

Just out of curiosity what exactly do you pay to get what?

 

I mean if they were offering a future cruise credit of $200 for the cost of $100, I can understand buying that.  Or if you give us $200 deposit now towards your next cruise we will give an OBC of $100, I can understand buying that.  And I can understand why neither of those offers would be combinable with other offers.  

 

But if you spent $200 to get a credit on a future cruise in which they are not giving you anything extra.  Why would anyone do that?  I would fight that.  And not allowing it to be combinable (when they are not giving you anything in return) might violate the  2009 law governing gift cards.

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47 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

Just out of curiosity what exactly do you pay to get what?

 

I mean if they were offering a future cruise credit of $200 for the cost of $100, I can understand buying that.  Or if you give us $200 deposit now towards your next cruise we will give an OBC of $100, I can understand buying that.  And I can understand why neither of those offers would be combinable with other offers.  

 

But if you spent $200 to get a credit on a future cruise in which they are not giving you anything extra.  Why would anyone do that?  I would fight that.  And not allowing it to be combinable (when they are not giving you anything in return) might violate the  2009 law governing gift cards.

 

When I bought the future credit, I thought could use it as a deposit and then get the same amount in OBC - a two for one, if you will.  However, I had considered using the credit toward a cruise with a TA and he told me that it was not combinable, and would not be accepted.  Later I found out that the credit is also not refundable.  I think I would be happy if they just let me use the deposit and forget about the OBC (assuming any decent TA could get me more OBC on a cruise).  At some point, we'll take a family cruise on a newer Oasis class ship and I'd hate to throw $200 away.

 

 

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