Island Princess Engine Problems

[Livtastic]

What is the link to that discussion thread? I don’t see able to find it. Thanks 

[Colo Cruiser]

3 minutes ago, Livtastic said:

What is the link to that discussion thread? I don’t see able to find it. Thanks 

You are in it.

[Livtastic]

Sorry I quoted the wrong person. J mean the other discussion forum referred to with people complaining about the small future discount. 

[Colo Cruiser]

27 minutes ago, Livtastic said:

Sorry I quoted the wrong person. J mean the other discussion forum referred to with people complaining about the small future discount. 

Did you check out the first page of this thread?

I have not seen any other discussions about it.

[CZEE]

31 minutes ago, Livtastic said:

Sorry I quoted the wrong person. J mean the other discussion forum referred to with people complaining about the small future discount. 

It was on a post on another site.  Many unhappy people.

[Lucky TGO]

On 9/12/2019 at 10:18 AM, azbirdmom said:

According to a passenger on board they left at 3:20 AM.  This is the letter they received.

 

Thanks for sharing. I hope the problem gets fixed soon.

Tony

[Colo Cruiser]

1 hour ago, CZEE said:

It was on a post on another site.  Many unhappy people.

Ship Happens

[KruzPrincess]

Is there any news about the Island’s propulsion problem?  My friend is sailing on a canal cruise on 9/22. She’s wondering if it’s fixed. Thanks. 

[SiliconCruiser]

It should be noted that passengers are not obligated to accept the minuscule offerings from the Princess crews, they may opt to extend their dissatisfaction for the abuse (and yeah, that is how I would describe any offering from the crew of the Island) and carry their dissatisfaction to the corporate level. All any passenger needs to do is to refuse the insult (offering) from the ship crew ( they will say that they are limited to what they can offer, and some are quite honest about it.)

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

27 minutes ago, SiliconCruiser said:

It should be noted that passengers are not obligated to accept the minuscule offerings from the Princess crews, they may opt to extend their dissatisfaction for the abuse (and yeah, that is how I would describe any offering from the crew of the Island) and carry their dissatisfaction to the corporate level. All any passenger needs to do is to refuse the insult (offering) from the ship crew ( they will say that they are limited to what they can offer, and some are quite honest about it.)

 

That sounds like the advice that Lori Loughlin got, which she now rues.  They are offering $100 OBC pp on this cruise – use it or lose it.  Plus 15% pp future cruise credit.  If you refuse to use the OBC [to preserve your bargaining power], you are likely to end up $100 worse off.

[Colo Cruiser]

1 hour ago, SiliconCruiser said:

It should be noted that passengers are not obligated to accept the minuscule offerings from the Princess crews, they may opt to extend their dissatisfaction for the abuse (and yeah, that is how I would describe any offering from the crew of the Island) and carry their dissatisfaction to the corporate level. All any passenger needs to do is to refuse the insult (offering) from the ship crew ( they will say that they are limited to what they can offer, and some are quite honest about it.)

 

Princess is not obligated to give you anything.

[h-sar]

2 hours ago, SiliconCruiser said:

It should be noted that passengers are not obligated to accept the minuscule offerings from the Princess crews, they may opt to extend their dissatisfaction for the abuse (and yeah, that is how I would describe any offering from the crew of the Island) and carry their dissatisfaction to the corporate level. All any passenger needs to do is to refuse the insult (offering) from the ship crew ( they will say that they are limited to what they can offer, and some are quite honest about it.)

 

 

Abuse? I...have no words.

[caribill]

1 hour ago, Colo Cruiser said:

Princess is not obligated to give you anything.

 

When the problem is a Princess one (engine problems as opposed to, for example, weather), Princess is obligated to provide some compensation.

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 hour ago, caribill said:

 

When the problem is a Princess one (engine problems as opposed to, for example, weather), Princess is obligated to provide some compensation.

 

Please cite the law or contract that provides this.

[Livtastic]

5 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

That sounds like the advice that Lori Loughlin got, which she now rues.  They are offering $100 OBC pp on this cruise – use it or lose it.  Plus 15% pp future cruise credit.  If you refuse to use the OBC [to preserve your bargaining power], you are likely to end up $100 worse off.

Actually this OBC is refundable. Any unused amount will be returned in the form of a cheque. It can also be used against gratuities.

Not that I think this is adequate, just wanted to clarify, 

 

 

[Colo Cruiser]

6 hours ago, caribill said:

 

When the problem is a Princess one (engine problems as opposed to, for example, weather), Princess is obligated to provide some compensation.

Please quote the link where I can find that fact. 

[SiliconCruiser]

12 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

1.  Please cite the law or contract that provides this.

2.  If you refuse to use the OBC [to preserve your bargaining power], you are likely to end up $100 worse off.

1.  I believe it is one of the legal principles of jurisprudence referred to as "Implied warranty of merchantability" and "Implied warranty of fitness."

Regardless of that, Princess corporate does make an effort to establish a fair settlement.  But I can only speak about that from my actual experience (and yes, it was on the Island.)

 

2.  I believe that "refundable" OBC means that they will send you a check for the balance if you don't use it.  At least that has been my experience where we did not use the portion of our OBC that was designated "refundable".  Princess does issue "refundable" OBC regularly as refunds for taxes and port fees that have been collected but not used.

[azbirdmom]

This was just posted by a passenger who returned this morning from the delayed cruise on the Island - here's hoping the fix goes well!

 

"Island Princess Update: The captain advised us that the propulsion system on Island Princess is now operating at 70%. They have new parts in San Francisco ready to go and it will be repaired to operate at 100% once she reaches San Francisco this Thursday."

Edited September 16, 2019 by azbirdmom

[lstone19]

17 hours ago, SiliconCruiser said:

It should be noted that passengers are not obligated to accept the minuscule offerings from the Princess crews, they may opt to extend their dissatisfaction for the abuse (and yeah, that is how I would describe any offering from the crew of the Island) and carry their dissatisfaction to the corporate level. All any passenger needs to do is to refuse the insult (offering) from the ship crew ( they will say that they are limited to what they can offer, and some are quite honest about it.)

 

I don't think the word "crew" means what you think it means. "Crew" on a ship, as I understand it, are the non-management workers, e.g. your cabin steward, the dining room and other food venues waiters, cooks, etc.. The management positions on a ship are the officers. And as you will find on a ship, officers and crew have very different privileges.

 

So almost certainly, it was not the crew offering any compensation. I very much doubt it was even the officers, and not even the Captain. My expectation was that the compensation offered was discussed at length with Princess management before anything was communicated to the public. Ships do not operate in a vacuum. While the captain is legally the master, a captain wishing to stay employed by a cruise line does not just make his or her own decisions on things that are best discussed with corporate.

[lstone19]

1 hour ago, SiliconCruiser said:

1.  I believe it is one of the legal principles of jurisprudence referred to as "Implied warranty of merchantability" and "Implied warranty of fitness."

Regardless of that, Princess corporate does make an effort to establish a fair settlement.  But I can only speak about that from my actual experience (and yes, it was on the Island.)

Now here I agree with SiliconCruiser. Regardless of what the contract says, Princess does have an obligation to provide something substantially similar to what they advertised. It would appear that some of the defenders of a cruise line's rights would argue, to take it to an extreme, that they actually promise to do nothing at all. But a contract where one party does not promise to do anything is legally not a contract at all.

 

I was not on this cruise but my personal opinion is that 15% is insufficient compensation for missingone of two ports on a cruise where the ports of call were a major marketing point. And given that the problem was the failure of the Princess ship (a Princess controllable problem*) as opposed to weather (a Princess non-controllable problem), the responsibility is 100% on Princess for not providing what they marketed.

 

* That Princess could probably not anticipate the problem does not somehow make it outside their control. From my days working for an airline where I had to do reports on airline controllable vs. non-controllable delays and cancels, weather and Air Traffic Control were non-controllable; everything else was considered controllable.  Just because a part randomly broke did not absolve us of responsibility.

[SiliconCruiser]

4 minutes ago, lstone19 said:

I don't think the word "crew" means what you think it means. "Crew" on a ship, as I understand it, are the non-management workers, e.g. your cabin steward, the dining room and other food venues waiters, cooks, etc.. The management positions on a ship are the officers. And as you will find on a ship, officers and crew have very different privileges.

 

So almost certainly, it was not the crew offering any compensation. I very much doubt it was even the officers, and not even the Captain. My expectation was that the compensation offered was discussed at length with Princess management before anything was communicated to the public. Ships do not operate in a vacuum. While the captain is legally the master, a captain wishing to stay employed by a cruise line does not just make his or her own decisions on things that are best discussed with corporate.

 

Okay, for the sake of your definition, it was the Guest Services Supervisor who informed us that we were not obligated to accept their offer of compensation, but it was all they could offer on the ship.  The Guest Services Director made no mention of this option.  And if the ship's offer was not accepted and resolved by the end of the cruise, the matter would be escalated to the corporate level for resolution.  In the case cited with the Island this time, it is only a 5 day cruise.  $100 may be reasonable compensation to someone who perhaps paid $400-500 for an inside stateroom, but it would probably be an insult to someone who booked a full suite.  And it is pretty clear that there are specific limitations and guidelines as to what can be offered to passengers on the ship.  Also, while a letter may have a facsimile of the captain's signature, realistically it is more likely a form letter with the amounts plugged in, by guest services.

There are probably some offers of compensation that are directed at the corporate level.  One particular case that am familiar with involved a mechanical failure on the Grand while it was on a 15 Day Hawaiian cruise from San Francisco.  It necessitated the termination of the remainder of the cruise; passengers received air transportation back to San Francisco (wonder if they had to charter a bunch of planes or if they just used scheduled flights), a full refund of their passage, and a 50% credit on a future cruise.

 

[KruzPrincess]

1 hour ago, azbirdmom said:

This was just posted by a passenger who returned this morning from the delayed cruise on the Island - here's hoping the fix goes well!

 

"Island Princess Update: The captain advised us that the propulsion system on Island Princess is now operating at 70%. They have new parts in San Francisco ready to go and it will be repaired to operate at 100% once she reaches San Francisco this Thursday."

Thanks so much. I will share this with my friend. 

[laktex]

I do not think there is any doubt that the offer of $100 OBC and the 15% FCC came from Princess HQ.   

 

There will be many opinions about this “compensation” and of course many different circumstances.  For example, someone living in BC can quite easily take another cruise to see Alaska properly ( and not just a few hours in Ketchikan, as we did on this cruise). Someone, like myself, having flown from the UK will have very significant costs in repeating the Alaskan experience. -  should the compensation package reflect this?  -  I don’t know and I guess all an individual can do is take it up directly with Princess and plead their specific case. Not an easy call for Princess Customer relations.

 

My particular view is that as an advertised “Alaskan Sampler”, the Alaskan bit was somewhat miniscule.

Edited September 16, 2019 by laktex
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[dog]

3 hours ago, SiliconCruiser said:

In the case cited with the Island this time, it is only a 5 day cruise.  $100 may be reasonable compensation to someone who perhaps paid $400-500 for an inside stateroom, but it would probably be an insult to someone who booked a full suite.

 

Missing a port is the same for all passengers regardless of cabin category, isn't it? I don't understand your "insult" remark.

[MamaFej]

7 minutes ago, dog said:

 

Missing a port is the same for all passengers regardless of cabin category, isn't it? I don't understand your "insult" remark.

Agreed. If the OBC compensation were to be commensurate with what people paid (as the 15% credit is) it would make sense to offer suite guests less OBC than those in "lower" categories for off-ship time. Indeed, the suite guests have a much nicer stateroom to retreat to while "stuck on the ship" than the rest of the passengers do.