Dress Code

[GeezerCouple]

6 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

 

Apparently you have not been around the golf scene where there are indeed T-shirts that have a collar which the PGA considers a collar....  Someone brought up the baseball hat - I was responding to that one.   If the OP shows up dressed as they dress at home when going out, it is their prerogative and their chance to be asked to change.   Do not like it?  Write to HAL, complain to the bouncer at the door.  But, if someone shows up and is allowed in, just don't look... 

 

Hmmm... I thought that t-shirts (all of them) were "without collars".... just the half-inch or so of some tiny ribbing or doubled - thicker than the rest of the shirt fabric.

 

I would have called what I *think* you are referring to "polo shirts" (knitted shirts with collar, and probably a few buttons maybe 1/4 of the way down from the neckline?).

 

My comments are less directed to how OP himself "looks" as about what one should do when one chooses to frequent some establishment/locale with explicit, written dress code.

(IF someone objects, then doing something specifically as a protest is quite different than just feeling entitled to entirely ignore the written norms.  I'm not addressing the former, which I also don't think would be appropriate here, but that *is* a separate issue... and one should not be surprised to be met with disapproval.)

 

GC

[slidergirl]

2 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Hmmm... I thought that t-shirts (all of them) were "without collars".... just the half-inch or so of some tiny ribbing or doubled - thicker than the rest of the shirt fabric.

 

I would have called what I *think* you are referring to "polo shirts" (knitted shirts with collar, and probably a few buttons maybe 1/4 of the way down from the neckline?).

 

My comments are less directed to how OP himself "looks" as about what one should do when one chooses to frequent some establishment/locale with explicit, written dress code.

(IF someone objects, then doing something specifically as a protest is quite different than just feeling entitled to entirely ignore the written norms.  I'm not addressing the former, which I also don't think would be appropriate here, but that *is* a separate issue... and one should not be surprised to be met with disapproval.)

 

GC

There was a drive to have a shirt that wasn't a polo but wasn't a T-shirt , so the "collar" was made a little wider, but not as wide to be a "mock" Turtleneck.   I wasn't referring to polos, where you have the buttons and a tipped collar.  

 

If it is a specific "code", I'm sure he abides.  But I've seen 2 different places on the HAL site where attire is discussed.  I don't have time to look (I'm out the door to work), but one is only "suggests" and "discourages" and "best left to".  Not "prohibited" or "required."   All in the eye of the beholder.  

 

I haven't seen any restaurant anywhere near me that has had an explicit, written, dress code in at least 20 years.    None of the restaurants in my area will toss someone for shorts at night, even the 5 Forbes-rated dining establishments...

[iancal]

The challenge is that I suspect a certain number of the HAL boosters expect a champagne cruise on a beer budget.  They still believe that HAL is a premium line and cruising on HAL implies that they are special people. They have not read the news...cruises are within many people’s budget. HAL knocks them out for as little as  $300 for a seven day cruise.  How special is that?

 

Instead of accepting the change or paying to move up to a premium line they either whine , complain, or spend their time judging what others wear.  I simply cannot imagine going on a cruise or any vacation and taking a photo for the sole purpose of criticizing what someone else is or is not wearing.   It speaks volumes to me.  May as well stay at home if you are that bored or that self centred.

 

Why not live and let live.  And MYOB!

Edited September 29, 2019 by iancal

[Tennessee Titan]

"Blame the line. "

How about just NOT "blaming" anyone.

Wear what makes YOU fell comfortable. If it unacceptable, someone will let you know.

Beating it to death here will not solve or change anything.........

[pete_coach]

36 minutes ago, Tennessee Titan said:

"Blame the line. "

How about just NOT "blaming" anyone.

Wear what makes YOU fell comfortable. If it unacceptable, someone will let you know.

Beating it to death here will not solve or change anything.........

Yeah but it seems HAL has a couple of old geezers that vehemently disagree with letting you wear what is comfortable.

Like someone already said, we are close to the 2020's and not in the 1950's. HAL needs t change too or, it will not be around to recuperate.

[Homosassa]

1 hour ago, slidergirl said:

Why, then, do I see people getting off the ship in Civi dressed in shorts and T-shirts (and females in tank tops) on their way to Rome? Why do these same people get pissed off when they can't get into the Vatican because they have on shorts or tank tops? Apparently, they don't subscribe to the "when in Rome"...  

 

The "culture" on a ship is changing.  Someone was asking about if what he normally wears out is OK and he gets bashed.   It's the 2010s (soon to be 2020s), not the 1970s.  Things change rapidly.  It's not inappropriate to ask about clothes.  Even on different ships within the same line, things are "enforced" differently.  Blame the line.  

I am not sure of the point behind your first paragraph. Obviously, those who do not understand that social and cultural expectations can be different in different areas will have to put up with the consequences of their behavior.  Either they will learn to check what might be expected of them when they travel or they will continue to be upset when they are pulled up short by the locals.

 

And no matter what you may think, there is still a cruise ship "culture" that is alive and well and followed by many. No blame is involved. Each cruise line knows its target market demographic and matches the on board expectations to match the demographic.

 

If someone wished to dress like it is biker night at the beer dive, there is at least one cruise like where this is the norm.  On the other hand, there are cruise lines where the suggested dress code may be country club elegant and those that cruise on that line dress accordingly.

 

The problem arises when biker beer dive passenger assumes that all cruise lines are the same. That is on them, not the cruise line.

[pete_coach]

6 hours ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

I absolutely stand by my comparison, as I explained for your benefit above.

(And yes, I appreciate that kuzu tried to explain it to you!  )

 

Different settings have different expectations of dress.

As an extreme, I suspect you may have walked around your house in your underwear, or even naked.

Does that make it acceptable (and would you really feel comfortable) doing that in an airport or, yes, a very fancy restaurant, or perhaps an amusement park, or even the local grocery store? 

 

Would you *really* wear shorts and a t-shirt to a very fancy restaurant when celebrating an anniversary/birthday, graduation, etc.? Do you wear that attire to work?  (Needless to say, IF your particular work environment does encourage or require that, then it's appropriate, but that further makes my case, as most offices do not.)

 

GC

Where did I say anything about wearing shorts and a T shirt? You are getting my discussion mixed up with someone else. Gotta keep your arguments with people straight LOL.

Yes, I have seen shorts in offices, even Government offices. "Casual" seems to be the way forward; Dress codes at work are a thing of the past . No employer can tell you what to wear anymore except for safety reasons. You really do not have a case there.

[GeezerCouple]

18 minutes ago, pete_coach said:

Where did I say anything about wearing shorts and a T shirt? You are getting my discussion mixed up with someone else. Gotta keep your arguments with people straight LOL.

Yes, I have seen shorts in offices, even Government offices. "Casual" seems to be the way forward; Dress codes at work are a thing of the past . No employer can tell you what to wear anymore except for safety reasons. You really do not have a case there.

 

Yup, as I *already* mentioned, I am definitely including what the OP wrote.  That sets the stage for the general commentary to follow.

If one wants to address a different topic, and omit any reference to the OP, then... perhaps a new thread?

 

And I suspect that some/many employers absolutely CAN "tell you what to wear", including for non-safety reasons.  Do you really think that a, say, front desk clerk at a Four Seasons in a large city business district (i.e., not a resort area) can just show up in shorts and a tank top?  Or a top law firm meeting with a high powered business client?  (IF the latter is acceptable, I have little doubt that it would have been discussed quite specifically in advance, which automatically, yes, would make it okay; but not otherwise.)

"Not complying with employer's dress code" is not a legally protected class, so good luck trying to contest that in court.  A union may or may not have rules/regs that deal with this, and those would presumably prevail also, either way.

ETA:   Just noticed you are in Canada.  My comments about "rules/laws/enforceability" refer to the USA.

 

Did you see the dead horse bit?

You can wear what you what anywhere you want.  Just don't be surprised if there are reactions or rules enforced.  "That's all."

 

GC

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by GeezerCouple

[pete_coach]

45 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

.....

....

 

Did you see the dead horse bit?

.....

 

GC

 

Obviously there was still lif eleft in the horse you are using LOL

[zelker]

We sailed the Amsterdam's 14 night Alaska cruise in August and saw a handful of men (not young'uns either) wearing shorts and t-shirts in the MDR (Anytime Dining deck, whatever that was) coming out as we were going in.  Did not offend me in the least and obviously they were not turned away at the door.

[kazu]

3 hours ago, GeezerCouple said:

ETA:   Just noticed you are in Canada.  My comments about "rules/laws/enforceability" refer to the USA.

 

I doubt the poster is really from Canada and, if they are they are the exception to the rule.   Most of us here go with the flow on where we are going.

If we are in Rome and going to the Vatican, we know how to dress.  If we are on a ship with a dress code, we follow it.

 

We Canadians are pretty silly respecting and following the cultures of the countries that we visit.  And a ship is a culture/country unto itself.  The rules are simple and don’t require anyone to break the bank to dress appropriately.  So, we just go with the flow 😄 

[slidergirl]

4 hours ago, Tennessee Titan said:

"Blame the line. "

How about just NOT "blaming" anyone.

Wear what makes YOU fell comfortable. If it unacceptable, someone will let you know.

Beating it to death here will not solve or change anything.........

If you don't want to beat the equine, stay away...

 

People want to blame someone when a miscreant is allowed past the moat dragons and into the MDR.  If the moat dragons allow it, then the line is to blame for not telling the moat dragons how important it is to keep any and all miscreants out of the MDR...  

 

And, no Front Desk Agent at any Four Seasons would show up at the Front of the House in a Tank top UNLESS that is the uniform they are given by HR to wear.  Line staff wear uniforms, not their own clothes.  My hotel has dress requirements for management.  It depends on how anal/obsessive the manager is on what you can do...  But, my employment contract that I sign does state that I must adhere to all rules (which include dress).  Is there some place specifically in the cruise contract that says the guest must adhere to the dress code?  Please cut & paste for me

[slidergirl]

4 hours ago, Homosassa said:

I am not sure of the point behind your first paragraph. Obviously, those who do not understand that social and cultural expectations can be different in different areas will have to put up with the consequences of their behavior.  Either they will learn to check what might be expected of them when they travel or they will continue to be upset when they are pulled up short by the locals.

 

And no matter what you may think, there is still a cruise ship "culture" that is alive and well and followed by many. No blame is involved. Each cruise line knows its target market demographic and matches the on board expectations to match the demographic.

 

If someone wished to dress like it is biker night at the beer dive, there is at least one cruise like where this is the norm.  On the other hand, there are cruise lines where the suggested dress code may be country club elegant and those that cruise on that line dress accordingly.

 

The problem arises when biker beer dive passenger assumes that all cruise lines are the same. That is on them, not the cruise line.

The point was that someone mentioned dressing as the "locals" do as in "when in Rome."  Civitavecchia is the port for Rome.  People come off there looking like they are going to Disney World or Busch Gardens or a Blue Jays game rather than a major metropolitan European city...  

 

I haven't been on a cruise for awhile where the "culture" of pretending you are on the Titanic has been slowly dying and followed by many, let alone a majority.  IMHO.

 

Is there no middle ground between Biker Night at your favorite beer dive vs tux/jacket/gown/dress??  I have never been a cruise where it is only one or the other running around in the evening - it's usually a nice and civilized blend when I cruise.  That always seems to be the choices the HAL folks put out, just like the canard of "make an effort" when you dress...   HAL IS one of those lines where "country club" is appropriate for all evening meals, so no one has to go somewhere else. What do you believe the guidelines are for HAL?

Edited September 30, 2019 by slidergirl

[iancal]

In my business the watchword was always to dress up to, or just below, what the client will be wearing.

 

In the case of a large law firm or bank it was a suit.  In the case of a technology firm it was a big ‘it depends’.  Could be anything from country club casual down to jeans and a T shirt for the C level folks that we dealt with.

 

The other huge difference was location.  The business dress standards in the cities that I worked, Toronto, Calgary,  Vancouver and in between varied considerably.  As did the attire in fine dining establishments.  My experience in San Jose and SFO was that both were extremely casual business environments.

 

My experience was that business attire was very different between Boston and SFO.  So I can well understand why people have differing views.

Edited September 30, 2019 by iancal

[pete_coach]

12 hours ago, kazu said:

 

I doubt the poster is really from Canada and, if they are they are the exception to the rule.   Most of us here go with the flow on where we are going.

If we are in Rome and going to the Vatican, we know how to dress.  If we are on a ship with a dress code, we follow it.

 

We Canadians are pretty silly respecting and following the cultures of the countries that we visit.  And a ship is a culture/country unto itself.  The rules are simple and don’t require anyone to break the bank to dress appropriately.  So, we just go with the flow 😄 

I am from Canada and you perpetuating Canadians as simple rule abiding peoples is and insult to all Canadians.

We change as well and we change rules and we question authority as much as any nationality. We challenge unnecessary and inconsequential rules otherwise we would still be living in fiefdoms. Please stop insulting Canadians.

A ship is a platform, a vessel, a means of transportation not a country or culture. Females don't have to wear a hajib in a Muslim country or a sari in a Hindu culture. Men do not have to wear a kurtu in Malasia or a sherwani, bandhgala, bungi in India when visiting there so don't even try to compare that.

Dress codes change continually, everywhere in the world and from cost to coast in Canada and the US, especially for women...why not for men too. Those claiming how a front desk clerk dresses is a very simple response as there are many workplaces and situations that require a uniform to work (Police, fire, Military, even McDonald's employees, your ships crew) so, that excuse is moot.

Anyway,  all  this backlash because we ask to wear shorts in communal dining hall? Makes no sense to me.

Edited September 30, 2019 by pete_coach

[taxmantoo]

Please, someone, make it stop ...

 

 

[pete_coach]

Just now, taxmantoo said:

Please, someone, make it stop ...

 

 

New to the cruise line forums?   As if this topic is not discussed over and over and over again on every cruise line forum????

It is with the old time, never change crowd against the change with the times and I am on vacation crowd.

[taxmantoo]

2 minutes ago, pete_coach said:

New to the cruise line forums?   As if this topic is not discussed over and over and over again on every cruise line forum????

It is with the old time, never change crowd against the change with the times and I am on vacation crowd.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

 

Enough said; time to move on ...

[pete_coach]

5 minutes ago, taxmantoo said:

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

 

Enough said; time to move on ...

Nope, seems you did not understand. Been elsewhere beside HAL and thei forums?

[iancal]

We are also from Canada.  At DW’s suggestion we stopped packing clothes for formal night about twelve years ago.  Perhaps more.We went with casual only.  We got tired of the charade and felt that it was hardly worth the effort to drag along those togs for a few hours.  

 

And we did not hide in our cabin or miss any shows on formal night as a few anal cc’ers suggested at the time

[doublebzz]

"Dead horses" be damned.  I find these controversial threads far more interesting and informative  than "What activities are available on Grand Turk" or "Where is the nearest liquor store from Port Everglades".  In this thread alone, I learned that Canadians are more law abiding than other nationalities, that some airlines offer PJ's to 1st class passengers and some HAL guests enjoy sipping their martinis in the Explorer's Bar dressed in bathrobes.

[slidergirl]

5 hours ago, taxmantoo said:

Please, someone, make it stop ...

 

 

easy.  Stop looking at this thread...

[AncientWanderer]

18 hours ago, kazu said:

 

I doubt the poster is really from Canada and, if they are they are the exception to the rule.   Most of us here go with the flow on where we are going.

If we are in Rome and going to the Vatican, we know how to dress.  If we are on a ship with a dress code, we follow it.

 

We Canadians are pretty silly respecting and following the cultures of the countries that we visit.  And a ship is a culture/country unto itself.  The rules are simple and don’t require anyone to break the bank to dress appropriately.  So, we just go with the flow 😄 

 

All Canadians?

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist.