Predict when cruising will start again post-Coronavirus

[Peacefulness]

4 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Never seems a bit harsh for the first four 🙄. Though it would not surprise me if island nations decide they do not want mega ships. 

Mostly because of the virus still spreading around the world and a lack of a vaccine. Tania

[MicCanberra]

4 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

 Does anybody remember this? it's the original post

I do, it was only 2 weeks ago.

[DiamondFour]

2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

You actually think this is a good weapon? You have no control over who it attacks and kills, it cripples your economy, throws your country into disarray, closes the borders of countries around you which only cripples your own economy more not to mention any diplomatic relations that will be undone of your country screwing up the world. How could you possibly claim that China is benefiting at all? 

Not china, I could think of one country that promised to unleash a new strategic weapon on the world should sanctions not be lifted. They have no economy to cripple, don't care about their own citizens, barely have diplomatic relations with many countries and a country purportedly with no cases whatsoever! By releasing it haphazardly you get plausible deniability that it was some sort of attack. If there was a weaponised virus then the telltale signs would be large clusters and natural mutations. Is it no surprise that the countries suffering the most were on the UN security council voting for sanctions against them, Spain allowed a brazen espionage attack on one of their embassies. All of what you say could benefit one country. Attack their friend first just to reduce suspicion and avoid their worst enemy who will ultimately suffer by default and it becomes possible. If a madman was running around the world with a virus sample that could be released by aerosol device then the response by countries would be to cancel all public events and shut down international travel until the perpetrator is found. We never did find out what their christmas gift to the world was or what their strategic new weapon was or their new path was.

 

3 hours ago, SinbadThePorter said:

 

You failed to mention any scientific fact, only a conspiracy theory. Things are fraught enough without all these silly conspiracy theories floating around adding to people's anxieties.

 

Scientific Fact 1: Viruses jump between host species.

Scientific Fact 2: Such viruses have already be shown to have affected human populations, e.g. SARS, MERS, Ebola.

Scientific Fact 3: All the conditions for such virus transfer between species existed in Wuhan (and elsewhere).

Scientific Fact 4: When such viruses jump into humans, we have no immunity because they are brand new.

Scientific Fact 5: The features of the virus that make it so infectious and deadly in humans already exist in wild versions of the viruses.

 

From those facts the inference can be made that the coronavirus currently afflicting us, originated in wild animals which had been repeatedly brought into close contact with humans, and it is entirely unnecessary to invoke some mysterious "lab" as the source.

The markets in wuhan and others around the world have been bringing those wild animals together for hundreds of years. The animals are transported country wide. Take our needles in strawberry's crime. That affected the entire supply chain and ended up all over the country. Given the animal trade in china it stands to reason that the virus should not have been limited to that one city once the group of animals infected with it were put on the market. 

[DiamondFour]

3 hours ago, LittleFish1976 said:

 

Just to take one of these issues; I doubt very much - very much - that enormous businesses will be basing their business decision-making on personal grudges. They will be going where the money is and as listed companies have a legal responsibility to do so.

 

Carnival apparently has very close, long-standing ties with either (maybe both) the NSW* or Australian Federal Government* and has been in the habit of meeting with them regularly. I'm sure they are used to the govt bending over backwards to accomodate them and generate tourism. It's all about the money - except when people will be dying. This had to be done. And Australia, as a relatively small population, has every right to make its own decisions about allocation of medical care and access across its borders.

 

*I can go back and check for you and cite the source but this is not a political forum and is probably tiresome for everyone here who just wants some sea air and afternoon tea, as we all would. Go to today's twitter chat and you'll find it.

 

The longstanding relationship might not be enough. The blame for the virus in Australia despite being here first is now being pointed squarely at the Ruby Princess. The media are having a field day with it. The politicians are having a field day with it. The only blame now is Ruby Princess, every news channel, every radio channel, it will turn people off cruising.

 

This will effect the start date of when cruising resumes in Australia.

 

Unless we as a forum can get onto the media and demand that they ask the questions "who infected the Ruby Princess", "who brought the virus to Australia where the Ruby Princess was safe", then our cruise industry will suffer big time. There will be a loss of public trust. The government will appease the public and not do them any favours and the cruise lines will up and leave.

[mr walker]

37 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

I do, it was only 2 weeks ago.

Ah yes mate, but it has been a long 2 weeks 😮

[SinbadThePorter]

Just now, DiamondFour said:

The markets in wuhan and others around the world have been bringing those wild animals together for hundreds of years.

 

True, and we have been having epidemics of such viruses for millennia, not just hundreds of years.

 

Where do you think measles, influenza, AIDS, SARS, Ebola, Hanta, Ross River Fever, rabies, and zika came from?

 

Just now, DiamondFour said:

Given the animal trade in china it stands to reason that the virus should not have been limited to that one city once the group of animals infected with it were put on the market. 

 

It had to originate somewhere, why couldn't that be Wuhan? We have had other viruses come out of China before, from other regions of China. There is nothing special about Wuhan.

[MicCanberra]

I for one like my Chinese deliveries, spring rolls, chicken and sweet corn soup, honey prawns, lemon chicken, beef and cashew nuts, szechuan pork, prawn crackers, special fried rice.

[dizzy1948]

3 hours ago, DiamondFour said:

The longstanding relationship might not be enough. The blame for the virus in Australia despite being here first is now being pointed squarely at the Ruby Princess. The media are having a field day with it. The politicians are having a field day with it. The only blame now is Ruby Princess, every news channel, every radio channel, it will turn people off cruising.

 

This will effect the start date of when cruising resumes in Australia.

 

Unless we as a forum can get onto the media and demand that they ask the questions "who infected the Ruby Princess", "who brought the virus to Australia where the Ruby Princess was safe", then our cruise industry will suffer big time. There will be a loss of public trust. The government will appease the public and not do them any favours and the cruise lines will up and leave.

????????????? Looks like the wheels have dropped off here...………...so off topic

[ilikeanswers]

@DiamondFour It seems to me everything you know about China only comes from conspiracy theory websites. It has its problems but you make it sound like a Bond villain. China is far more sophisticated than the caricature you portray it as. Clearly we will never agree so let's just stick to the topic of cruising🤗

 

So with the Ruby Princess it seems things are bit confused. I am hearing on one side that someone let the passengers disembark before the tests came back on the other side they are saying Ruby knew of people with flu like symptoms and did not disclose the information. It seems everyone is trying to point the finger at each other. I think an investigation will be needed to get to the truth of what the heck happened. Though I suspect it was a lot of miscommunication. 

 

This whole fiasco will probably affect negotiations between the cruise line and the government. It will be interesting to see what governments will demand of the cruise line for future docking🤔. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

@DiamondFour It seems to me everything you know about China only comes from conspiracy theory websites. It has its problems but you make it sound like a Bond villain. China is far more sophisticated than the caricature you portray it as. Clearly we will never agree so let's just stick to the topic of cruising🤗

 

So with the Ruby Princess it seems things are bit confused. I am hearing on one side that someone let the passengers disembark before the tests came back on the other side they are saying Ruby knew of people with flu like symptoms and did not disclose the information. It seems everyone is trying to point the finger at each other. I think an investigation will be needed to get to the truth of what the heck happened. Though I suspect it was a lot of miscommunication. 

 

This whole fiasco will probably affect negotiations between the cruise line and the government. It will be interesting to see what governments will demand of the cruise line for future docking🤔. 

A Current Affair this evening shows copies of emails between the Ruby Princess and the Health Department. The ship advised they had 13 (I think it was 13) people with respiratory symptoms and that these people had tested negative for influenza. BTW the ship did not have test kits for covid-19.

 

The responding email from NSW Health advised that they did not view the Ruby Princess as a threat and they authorized the disembarkation of the passengers. The ship docked at 1am and had requested that an ambulance pick up a very ill guest. The ambulance left the ship at 2.30. The woman patient was later confirmed as having covid-19, and she became Australia's eighth covid death.

 

I was surprised when the finger of blame was pointed at the captain today (or was it yesterday) when for the last two weeks, it has appeared that the NSW Health Department was the one at fault, or did they try to blame Border Force. With this paper trail now in the public domain, it will be difficult for the NSW Health department (or the government) to blame the captain of the ship.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[christodan]

Exactly Aus Traveller. We all know how ships and planes operate. The captains  always need permission to land/dock, and they are extremely professional.   I'm disgusted at our premier, Dutton and Fuller, for accusing the ship's crew of lying. They should all be sacked for their dishonesty.

[LittleFish1976]

4 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

A Current Affair this evening shows copies of emails between the Ruby Princess and the Health Department. The ship advised they had 13 (I think it was 13) people with respiratory symptoms and that these people had tested negative for influenza. BTW the ship did not have test kits for covid-19.

 

The responding email from NSW Health advised that they did not view the Ruby Princess as a threat and they authorized the disembarkation of the passengers. The ship docked at 1am and had requested that an ambulance pick up a very ill guest. The ambulance left the ship at 2.30. The woman patient was later confirmed as having covid-19, and she became Australia's eighth covid death.

 

I was surprised when the finger of blame was pointed at the captain today (or was it yesterday) when for the last two weeks, it has appeared that the NSW Health Department was the one at fault, or did they try to blame Border Force. With this paper trail now in the public domain, it will be difficult for the NSW Health department (or the government) to blame the captain of the ship.

 

I read that information, too, that you share above. Also, I read that this cruise was classed as 'low risk' but the previous cruise on that ship had been classed as 'medium risk' due to the number of people with flu-like symptoms and I think someone from that previous cruise had already tested positive for covid-19. Given what was known by that stage from the Diamond Princess and other areas experience with the ability of the virus to spread, the NSW health dept, or whoever was responsible for the decision and tracking the available information, should have had more caution in the decision.

 

It should also have rung alarm bells that the ship reported 104 passengers with acute respiratory illness of which 36 had reported to the medical centre on board for flu.

 

 

[DiamondFour]

2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

@DiamondFour It seems to me everything you know about China only comes from conspiracy theory websites. It has its problems but you make it sound like a Bond villain. China is far more sophisticated than the caricature you portray it as. Clearly we will never agree so let's just stick to the topic of cruising🤗

 

So with the Ruby Princess it seems things are bit confused. I am hearing on one side that someone let the passengers disembark before the tests came back on the other side they are saying Ruby knew of people with flu like symptoms and did not disclose the information. It seems everyone is trying to point the finger at each other. I think an investigation will be needed to get to the truth of what the heck happened. Though I suspect it was a lot of miscommunication. 

 

This whole fiasco will probably affect negotiations between the cruise line and the government. It will be interesting to see what governments will demand of the cruise line for future docking🤔. 

It is clear that our political leaders and the police commissioner lied to us about the situation. They all deceived us and did it deliberately.

 

Given the situation Princess cannot afford to lie and deceive about sick passengers. It was in their interests to disclose it to save their reputation from being tarnished in the press as they have been under intense scrutiny lately. 

 

If the government wants to play hard ball with cruise ships in the future then they can kiss goodbye to the 5 billion they generate for our economy and kiss goodbye to all the supply chain jobs and tourism sector jobs that are supported by the industry.

 

As an Australian I will happily fly to any country to start a cruise (except china). Perhaps if cruise lines funded for a dedicated terminal in Noumea we could be cruising from there.

 

As for china denying a virus existed, destroying hospital lab samples, punishing credible medical experts, lying about the numbers demonstrates the type of country it is. One only has to take a look at Singapore and Japan as beacons of sophistication and how to take control of a situation. 

[ilikeanswers]

26 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

Japan as beacons of sophistication and how to take control of a situation. 

 

Actually Japan is perhaps not the best example. They only test people once they get into hospital which means there are lot of people who are probably infectious walking around that have not yet made it to hospital. The fact that Shinzo Abe has chosen to self isolate I think demonstrates his lack of confidence in the health of his population. When I was in Japan they were saying that the hospitals in Nagoya were struggling so I wouldn't be surprised if we find out later that Japan has been hiding their infections as much as China. At the end of the day Japan is not known for a transparent government. You are right to praise Singapore they have done a good job to keep the infections at a manageable rate. I would also look at Taiwan, even Hong Kong despite sharing a border with China has done fairly well. South Korea has done a magnificent job to flatten the curve and Germany too has done a much better job than is given credit, they are even taking in patients from France and Italy.

Edited April 3, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[in rod we trust]

from that  list and the uncertainty with this virus I doubt cruising will be resuming any time soon in any of those places . 

at best in any of those region, probably 2 yrs  to 3yrs . remember 18 months for a proper vaccine .  insurance will be a massive prob , maybe few law suits,  there is always one lawyer that will probably start a class action …  

all they had to do was cancel cruising from feb  but greed got in the way , so the harm they did to themselves was brought upon by themselves  .

at least the bay wont be touched now so there is one positive thing about this ..  it would be political  suicide  ..   

so I think cruising 2-3 yrs min  in any region … maybe I might get one of those kiss cruises for the misses cheap now , or might be double  ..

Edited April 3, 2020 by in rod we trust

[MicCanberra]

The government may be more receptive to a cruise line injecting massive amounts of income with the new dock at Botany Bay by then, you never know.

[nnps]

4 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

The government may be more receptive to a cruise line injecting massive amounts of income with the new dock at Botany Bay by then, you never know.

Nice one :)

[Kiwi Kruzer]

11 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

The government may be more receptive to a cruise line injecting massive amounts of income with the new dock at Botany Bay by then, you never know.

They will be watching to see what happens with the new dock and cruise terminal at Brisbane first .🤔

[DiamondFour]

8 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Actually Japan is perhaps not the best example. They only test people once they get into hospital which means there are lot of people who are probably infectious walking around that have not yet made it to hospital. The fact that Shinzo Abe has chosen to self isolate I think demonstrates his lack of confidence in the health of his population. When I was in Japan they were saying that the hospitals in Nagoya were struggling so I wouldn't be surprised if we find out later that Japan has been hiding their infections as much as China. At the end of the day Japan is not known for a transparent government. You are right to praise Singapore they have done a good job to keep the infections at a manageable rate. I would also look at Taiwan, even Hong Kong despite sharing a border with China has done fairly well. South Korea has done a magnificent job to flatten the curve and Germany too has done a much better job than is given credit, they are even taking in patients from France and Italy.

You are wrong about Japan in a few ways. The issue with Nagoya is that some nurses tested positive. What Abe is doing is leading by example which is how Japanese people do things. Since WWII their constitution has changed and they are not allowed to enact laws like ours that appear draconian or extreme and they are fearful of going back to a police state. As such they will let life go on as normal but will "suggest" or "lead by example" of how they want their citizens to behave. Naturally the citizens are taking up the call and following on. There is some angst there and confusion but that is to be expected. Their citizens have been known to wear face masks for almost a hundred years or more on public transport and they respect personal space. They clean things thoroughly. With my experience on the Diamond Princess you did not get the results of the tests until the sample had been verified three times if my memory is correct. They did not go off the first result. They always doubled up.

 

The allegations about their lack of testing could also be said for Australia. Our government is deceiving us and not telling us the whole and complete truth. There are still communities in Australia where people who have symptoms are not tested. Our government is refusing in some areas to test people who have not been overseas. It does not matter if they worked in a place that foreign tourists visit or were exposed to foreigners, they are not getting tested. In fact our government presided over several massive stuff ups by allowing infections people into our country who in turn boarded several cruise ships and infected them. That is extreme negligence. For cases on the likes of Ovation of the Seas, Voyager of the Seas, Ruby Princess which were all here prior to the outbreak and when it became known the outbreak had occurred our government did nothing to protect our citizens who board those ships from potential foreigners who were bringing the virus in through our airports.

[Chiliburn]

49 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

The government may be more receptive to a cruise line injecting massive amounts of income with the new dock at Botany Bay by then, you never know.

After this,it’s obvious we need more port space and it will be classed a critical infrastructure.

I think we will see a building stimulus like Uncle Sam did at the end of the depression.

[MicCanberra]

10 minutes ago, Chiliburn said:

After this,it’s obvious we need more port space and it will be classed a critical infrastructure.

I think we will see a building stimulus like Uncle Sam did at the end of the depression.

You may be right.

[Vader1111]

10 hours ago, DiamondFour said:

As an Australian I will happily fly to any country to start a cruise (except china). Perhaps if cruise lines funded for a dedicated terminal in Noumea we could be cruising from there.

While you may be willing to do this, I doubt the majority of Australian cruisers would feel the same way.  I know that I would not be cruising anywhere near as often if forced to fly overseas just to board the ship, and I suspect that 99% of Australian cruisers would feel the same way.

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, DiamondFour said:

The allegations about their lack of testing could also be said for Australia. 

 

That we can agree on. My mum is friends with a local doctor and she said she was only given 5 test kits😱 and she had already used two of them. It is ridiculous. 

[Aus Traveller]

2 hours ago, Kiwi Kruzer said:

They will be watching to see what happens with the new dock and cruise terminal at Brisbane first .🤔

When we cruised past about six weeks ago, the structure of the terminal building was in place as was the dock. Of course, the interior work takes a long time.

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, Vader1111 said:

While you may be willing to do this, I doubt the majority of Australian cruisers would feel the same way.  I know that I would not be cruising anywhere near as often if forced to fly overseas just to board the ship, and I suspect that 99% of Australian cruisers would feel the same way.

I agree with you. When cruising re-starts, as it will, I would prefer to sail from, and return to an Australian port, preferably Brisbane where I live.