Orlando Ashford's Latest Statement - Humanitarian crisis

[RocketMan275]

5 minutes ago, eroller said:

I live here and I’m happy to take these people in with the right plan in place, but is FLL the best choice based on our current situation and already being a hotbed of COVID, probably not.  I would to know why you think it’s the best choice, better than Tampa, Port Canaveral, Jacksonville, Galveston, and Houston for instance.  Also as I've mentioned before, Broward and Dade Counties have shown plenty of compassion already, to many ill cruise ship passengers and crew.  Has your community?  Those in other places are very quick to point the finger ... until it shows up on their doorstep.  Then I guarantee things change, so please don't preach to me about compassion.   

There's no way to decide what the best choice of ports should be.  This can be debated for weeks.  It's time to get on with what needs to be done.  FLL is a good choice, perhaps the best one.  Time to man up and help these people.

 

I will cease preaching when compassion is shown.

[eroller]

1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

There's no way to decide what the best choice of ports should be.  This can be debated for weeks.  It's time to get on with what needs to be done.  FLL is a good choice, perhaps the best one.  Time to man up and help these people.

 

I will cease preaching when compassion is shown.

 

 

Nothing worse than armchair preaching from a safe distance.  

 

Again you have not mentioned why you think FLL is the best choice, considering we have the highest rate of COVID in the state of Florida.  

 

Anyway it's not up to me.  The Broward County Board of Commissioners will take a vote tomorrow based on the plan submitted by HAL.  I would guess it better be a good one, that keeps the community here as safe as possible.  Our resources are already stretched.  

[RocketMan275]

1 minute ago, eroller said:

Anyway it's not up to me.  The Broward County Board of Commissioners will take a vote tomorrow based on the plan submitted by HAL.  I would guess it better be a good one, that keeps the community here as safe as possible.  Our resources are already stretched.  

That's a positive statement on your part that recognizes the needs of both the passengers and the community.  

[eroller]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

That's a positive statement on your part that recognizes the needs of both the passengers and the community.  

 

 

I already said I'm fine with taking them in, with the right plan in place.  Read my previous posts.  That said I still don't think we are the best choice based on the situation in Broward County ... thinking about the care these passengers and our residents will receive with the resources available.  There are other less-COVID stricken ports within the same sailing distance.  

 

We may be the cruise capital of the world but we are not the health care capital of the world.  Two different things.  

Edited March 31, 2020 by eroller

[RocketMan275]

29 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

 

I already said I'm fine with taking them in, with the right plan in place.  Read my previous posts.  That said I still don't think we are the best choice based on the situation in Broward County ... thinking about the care these passengers and our residents will receive with the resources available.  There are other less-COVID stricken ports within the same sailing distance.  

 

We may be the cruise capital of the world but we are not the health care capital of the world.  Two different things.  

Why not leave it to the experts to figure this out?

Edited March 31, 2020 by RocketMan275

[eroller]

11 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Why not leave it to the experts to figure this out?

 

 

I don't have much faith in the "experts" or our leadership.  Part of the problem and why we are where we are now.  

 

Meanwhile another "sick ship" headed to FLL.  CORAL PRINCESS.  Our county commissioners will have their hands full.  

[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

 

I don't have much faith in the "experts" or our leadership.  Part of the problem and why we are where we are now.  

 

Meanwhile another "sick ship" headed to FLL.  CORAL PRINCESS.  Our county commissioners will have their hands full.  

This is a very difficult and trying situation.  Frankly, crisis management is mostly 'muddling through'.  People make mistakes, unexpected situations arise.  Give the experts a break, it's doubtful anyone could do better.  

It's easy to be afraid right now.  The best thing to do is get to work and make things better.

[DaveSJ711]

1 hour ago, Sir PMP said:

Yes, the cruise started March7, when the announcement came on the 10th the captain should have turned around  back to Buenos Aires and have everyone flown home, that would have saved lives..

 

What announcement was made on the 10th?  Mr. Ashford says that HAL announced a 30-day suspension of cruise operations on March 13.

 

On March 13, my wife and I were pulling in to Buenos Aires, on a Viking cruise, when we learned that Argentina intended to close the BA airport in a couple of days.  That caused a mad dash to change and rebook flights.  Fortunately we made it home after a 42-hour transit.

 

The Zaandam passengers would have been in a similar pickle if the ship had returned to Buenos Aires when we did.  Perhaps the passengers would have made it out, perhaps not.

[Sir PMP]

14 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

What announcement was made on the 10th?  Mr. Ashford says that HAL announced a 30-day suspension of cruise operations on March 13.

 

On March 13, my wife and I were pulling in to Buenos Aires, on a Viking cruise, when we learned that Argentina intended to close the BA airport in a couple of days.  That caused a mad dash to change and rebook flights.  Fortunately we made it home after a 42-hour transit.

 

The Zaandam passengers would have been in a similar pickle if the ship had returned to Buenos Aires when we did.  Perhaps the passengers would have made it out, perhaps not.

Certain states declared a state of emergency on March 10, followed by the president's national emergency on the 13th,  so the writing was on the wall that the Zaandam was never going to make the full 14 day cruise so they should have turned around to BA or maybe back to Fll, time was of the essence to get the passengers back to safety.

[DaveSJ711]

4 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

Certain states declared a state of emergency on March 10, followed by the president's national emergency on the 13th,  so the writing was on the wall that the Zaandam was never going to make the full 14 day cruise so they should have turned around to BA or maybe back to Fll, time was of the essence to get the passengers back to safety.

 

Regarding the so-called "writing on the wall":  The states' announcements occurred when my ship was in the South Atlantic -- yet we were still able to complete our 17-day cruise.  We didn't race back to the Falkland Islands, or to Ushuaia, or Punta Arenas.  We sailed on to Buenos Aires, where we learned about the impending airport closure when we pulled into port.

 

My point is this.  Nobody had any inkling on May 10, within HAL or Viking, that Chile and Argentina would close their airports just a few days later.  To say that the lines should have known about these closures, and should have cut short ongoing cruises, is to engage in pure hindsight.   

[Floridiana]

13 hours ago, DaveSJ711 said:

Nobody had any inkling on May 10, within HAL or Viking, that Chile and Argentina would close their airports just a few days later. 

 

That is true. We were on a different ship, different line and heard about it in Brasil. Information changed daily. 

[Homosassa]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coast-guard-tells-cruises-to-prepare-to-care-for-sick-people-for-indefinite-period/ar-BB11ZoEY?li=BBnb7Kz

 

In case the above link doesn't work, the US Coast Guard has notified cruise ships that they must go to the nation in which they are flagged to seek supplies and medical assistance as the ports of Florida and the Coast Guard are overburdened.

 

That means for those corporations who have made the corporate decisions to have their ships flagged in countries other than the US must seek assistance in those countries.

[albingirl]

2 hours ago, Homosassa said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coast-guard-tells-cruises-to-prepare-to-care-for-sick-people-for-indefinite-period/ar-BB11ZoEY?li=BBnb7Kz

 

In case the above link doesn't work, the US Coast Guard has notified cruise ships that they must go to the nation in which they are flagged to seek supplies and medical assistance as the ports of Florida and the Coast Guard are overburdened.

 

That means for those corporations who have made the corporate decisions to have their ships flagged in countries other than the US must seek assistance in those countries.

I am just so sad that this is ongoing.  I agree with the opinion of the HAL president, that I read today in the WSJ.  However, it is easy to understand how difficult this will be for Florida, since there are so many elderly people there, and this certainly will strain the health care system.  No easy answer or solution.

[RocketMan275]

3 hours ago, Homosassa said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coast-guard-tells-cruises-to-prepare-to-care-for-sick-people-for-indefinite-period/ar-BB11ZoEY?li=BBnb7Kz

 

In case the above link doesn't work, the US Coast Guard has notified cruise ships that they must go to the nation in which they are flagged to seek supplies and medical assistance as the ports of Florida and the Coast Guard are overburdened.

 

That means for those corporations who have made the corporate decisions to have their ships flagged in countries other than the US must seek assistance in those countries.

Says they must seek assistance in those countries first.

What happens if those countries refuse?

Easy to say, they would then refuse to allow them to dock in US.

However, the outcry would quickly become overwhelming.    

[love_the_sea]

5 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Says they must seek assistance in those countries first.

What happens if those countries refuse?

Easy to say, they would then refuse to allow them to dock in US.

However, the outcry would quickly become overwhelming.    

 

That means the Zaandam would have to seek help from the Netherlands since that is where it is registered. I may be mistaken but I believe all Holland America ships are Netherlands flagged.  

[RocketMan275]

21 minutes ago, love_the_sea said:

 

That means the Zaandam would have to seek help from the Netherlands since that is where it is registered. I may be mistaken but I believe all Holland America ships are Netherlands flagged.  

The important thing is now where the ship is flagged.  

The important thing is  how to help those in need on board the ship.

There will be plenty of time to point fingers after this is over.

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

There will be plenty of time to point fingers after this is over.

 

If the moderators do not have this comment removed, I will have some very pointed fingers pointed at those who keep wanting to cut taxes, cut the budget, smaller government is better.  Such ideology has contributed to where the United States and the State of Ohio now finds itself.  

 

A comparable situation existed in 1941 after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and we were in an isolationist mode regardless of what FDR realized.  Industries had to be suddenly mobilized to make war materials (circa 2020--ventilators, masks, etc.).  

 

History repeats itself.  This time--I fear--it is going to bring its message to those of us who have been mostly isolated from such an invasion in the past.   

Edited April 2, 2020 by rkacruiser

[RocketMan275]

1 minute ago, rkacruiser said:

 

If the moderators do not have this comment removed, I will have some very pointed fingers pointed at those who keep wanting to cut taxes, cut the budget, smaller government is better.  Such ideology has contributed to where the United States and the State of Ohio now finds itself.  

I think we've politicized this enough.  

[katrina915]

This is a tough situation.  I am praying for the folks in south Florida and those on the ship. As a floridian, I hope some port in Florida or Texas takes them in. Not sure FLL is the best choice though since they are a hotspot. Hopefully,  the cruise line has a good plan.

[PROCRUISE]

33 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I think we've politicized this enough.  

 

35 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

If the moderators do not have this comment removed, I will have some very pointed fingers pointed at those who keep wanting to cut taxes, cut the budget, smaller government is better.  Such ideology has contributed to where the United States and the State of Ohio now finds itself.  

 

A comparable situation existed in 1941 after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and we were in an isolationist mode regardless of what FDR realized.  Industries had to be suddenly mobilized to make war materials (circa 2020--ventilators, masks, etc.).  

 

History repeats itself.  This time--I fear--it is going to bring its message to those of us who have been mostly isolated from such an invasion in the past.   

 

Unsure what you mean about State of Ohio which has lead the nation from the outset on controlling the virus. Are you not also aware that Batttele Institute in Columbus is now world famous for rapidly developing a Critical Care Decontamination System that is now decontaminating 40,000 N-95 masks day and will soon be doing 80,000 a day! Additionally, along with Ohio State University have developed a COVID-19 test that can give accurate results in 5 hrs verses 5 days!

[ellieanne]

On 3/31/2020 at 4:15 PM, SilvertoGold said:

 

Optimal in hindsight. It would have been the thing to do, absolutely.

It's very easy to sit here now, nearly a month later and say what should have been done at the time. It wasn't done. We can't change that. We have to work with the situation as it is right now, not as it was a month ago. And right now there are ships out there with real people on them who need to be able to get home, or medical care, or, sadly, returned to their families. It's time to step up and act like the kind of people we teach our children we should be: the kind of people that help others in need. If the ship was sinking and sent out a distress call, the convention is that any ship in the area should render aid. These ships are sending out a distress call. It's time to render the aid we should.

[Cruise Suzy]

5 hours ago, ellieanne said:

It's very easy to sit here now, nearly a month later and say what should have been done at the time. It wasn't done. We can't change that. We have to work with the situation as it is right now, not as it was a month ago. And right now there are ships out there with real people on them who need to be able to get home, or medical care, or, sadly, returned to their families. It's time to step up and act like the kind of people we teach our children we should be: the kind of people that help others in need. If the ship was sinking and sent out a distress call, the convention is that any ship in the area should render aid. These ships are sending out a distress call. It's time to render the aid we should.

 

Well said. My hope for all the ships with passengers and crew still onboard.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Cruise Suzy

[love_the_sea]

14 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

The important thing is now where the ship is flagged.  

The important thing is  how to help those in need on board the ship.

There will be plenty of time to point fingers after this is over.

I believe you misunderstood my post.  I was trying (I guess unsuccessfully) to point out how impractical it would be to send the Zaandam and the Rotterdam to The Netherlands for help.  We need to help them hear in the US.  I don't understand why you thought I or anyone was pointing fingers.

 

[RocketMan275]

Just now, love_the_sea said:

I believe you misunderstood my post.  I was trying (I guess unsuccessfully) to point out how impractical it would be to send the Zaandam and the Rotterdam to The Netherlands for help.  We need to help them hear in the US.  I don't understand why you thought I or anyone was pointing fingers.

 

My apologies.   

[bay guy]

FLL is probably the best port to use for these ships for the following reasons

1) Hospital access for those who are critically ill and can't be cared for on board.

2) Quick easy access to the airport, which is basically minutes away, for the charter flights HAL is using to get passengers back close to home versus the almost hour drive to MIA, MCO and JAX from the port.

3) While holding those passengers and crew who are on board due to infection or quarantine, easy access to port services for resupply and easy fast access to hospitals if someone becomes critically ill.

 

It's called compassion for your fellow human being and a "not in my backyard" mentality isn't welcome in such tragic circumstances. For God's sake, the bodies of four dead people have been laying on that ship for over a week. How do you think the medical staff on board is feeling about losing those passengers to the virus and being helpless to save them?