CDC issues returning passenger rules for cruise pax

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, LuckyTheRooster said:

People die on cruise ships all the time - we had a death on my last cruise and they disembarked the entire family while we were out at sea - the Captain gives you that option if the ship is close to a port - or you can take the other option as every ship has a morgue - (might as well finish the cruise imo 😘)

 

People also get sick on cruise ships - probably way more in the early days when the ships did not have the advanced stabilization systems in place or in the event one person decides to go on the cruise sick -

 

If you cruised a long time ago you know that the measures taken to keep these ships clean now versus then is unbelievable

 

If you are suspected to be sick - you will get locked in your cabin - that also goes if you are drunk or disorderly

 

 

But now every death, and this also applies to non-cruise ship deaths, is blamed on the coronavirus.

 

The local paper earlier this month mentioned a death blamed on the virus. The gentleman was just over a month short of 100  years old and had just recently had open heart surgery. Gee, even without this new virus, do you think he had a very high chance of passing away?

[FiredogCruiser]

20 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Looks to be for future travelers during pandemic

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/22745-cdc-releases-strict-guidelines-for-returning-cruise-passengers.html

I believe this is an admission of just how poorly prepared port cities are to handle these emergency situations. As ships have gotten bigger, emergency operations plans have not kept pace, despite pandemic guide lines updates after SARS. Ports have liked the money spent by pre and post cruise travelers purchasing thousands of rooms, meals, fuel and flights around the cruising industry, but have been reluctant to invest in the people, plans and equipment to protect those same travelers when something happens.

Given the number of virus issues surrounding cruising for a number of years, and coupled with the SARS pandemic experience, and the resulting pandemic guide lines that were subsequently issued there is no excuse for the degree of unpreparedness we have seen in a multitude of port cities.

States like New York, where they actually auctioned off what they labeled as excess ventilators need to be held accountable, but probably won't be.

[jimbo5544]

50 minutes ago, FiredogCruiser said:

I believe this is an admission of just how poorly prepared port cities are to handle these emergency situations. As ships have gotten bigger, emergency operations plans have not kept pace, despite pandemic guide lines updates after SARS. Ports have liked the money spent by pre and post cruise travelers purchasing thousands of rooms, meals, fuel and flights around the cruising industry, but have been reluctant to invest in the people, plans and equipment to protect those same travelers when something happens.

Given the number of virus issues surrounding cruising for a number of years, and coupled with the SARS pandemic experience, and the resulting pandemic guide lines that were subsequently issued there is no excuse for the degree of unpreparedness we have seen in a multitude of port cities.

States like New York, where they actually auctioned off what they labeled as excess ventilators need to be held accountable, but probably won't be.

The port cities were under heavy duress fighting their own battles with Covid. I was fairly critical of them at the time, but I can understand the view[lint (don’t agree but understand).  

[rukkian]

14 hours ago, 1025cruise said:

By the time the cruises start operating again things should be back to normal. These guidelines are for current circumstances. 

I could see the guidelines applying to any ship with confirmed cases and an outbreak, once they start going again.

[jimbo5544]

44 minutes ago, rukkian said:

I could see the guidelines applying to any ship with confirmed cases and an outbreak, once they start going again.

I think they were def drawing a line in the sand for ANY cruise, current or future.

[rukkian]

35 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I think they were def drawing a line in the sand for ANY cruise, current or future.

That would just mean cruising would no longer be affordable to most people if the cruise line has to do private flights for everybody on every cruise.  That is just not feasible.

[FiredogCruiser]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

The port cities were under heavy duress fighting their own battles with Covid. I was fairly critical of them at the time, but I can understand the view[lint (don’t agree but understand).  

Public safety has not been a priority in this country for quite some time. The public simply doesn't care until something happens, then they start screaming for the federal government to bail them out. Always the same. Look at the lack of respect for police officers. Look at the nationwide crises in fire service manpower. Look at budget cuts to adequate equipment. For instance the age of ambulances still in service, and the cost to replace them to meet current state and federal specs. Look at the cities and states that refused to maintain adequate stock piles of recommended medical equipment, while at the same time promoting one give away freebee after another from needles for drug users, to cell phones for illegals. Now that we got caught, unprepared, lets blame the federal government for not bailing us out faster, and make the cruise lines responsible for our shortcomings going forward. The mentality in this county is utterly amazing.

[jimbo5544]

3 hours ago, FiredogCruiser said:

Public safety has not been a priority in this country for quite some time. The public simply doesn't care until something happens, then they start screaming for the federal government to bail them out. Always the same. Look at the lack of respect for police officers. Look at the nationwide crises in fire service manpower. Look at budget cuts to adequate equipment. For instance the age of ambulances still in service, and the cost to replace them to meet current state and federal specs. Look at the cities and states that refused to maintain adequate stock piles of recommended medical equipment, while at the same time promoting one give away freebee after another from needles for drug users, to cell phones for illegals. Now that we got caught, unprepared, lets blame the federal government for not bailing us out faster, and make the cruise lines responsible for our shortcomings going forward. The mentality in this county is utterly amazing.

Having two kids in Police services, would love to hear more on unprepared

[FiredogCruiser]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Having two kids in Police services, would love to hear more on unprepared

Having two kids in public safety you should be well aware of the preparedness problems I would think. A post here is to small to go into everything, but I will try to make a few points.

1. Staffing. While there is no longer an accepted staffing criteria for police departments (I wonder why), how many departments utilize the ICMA staffing program to determine adequate levels of staffing, and then actually staff to that level, which averages 2.5/1000?

How many fire departments are staffed to NFPA standards 1710 and 1720

How many EMS organizations are staffed to meet EMS guidelines for pandemic influenza?

How many emergency management agencies at either the municipal or county level are adequately staffed to provide the planning required by state and federal (in my case PEMA and FEMA) directives. (In my case, our county EMA operation has had a planning position cut from the budget the last three years in a row. A position that would be responsible for planning and coordination between competing agencies for situations like pandemic response.

2. Enforcement. How much code enforcement is being left due to lack of staffing. (Not enough firefighters in the budget, cut code enforcement positions.)

How often are known standards either ignored, or worse deliberately dismantled. Example; the cases of New York and California dismantling their medical stockpiles for budgetary considerations. New York actually auctioned off approximately 500 ventilators because they decided they couldn't afford to maintain them. California's Gov. Brown purposely dismantled their state's stockpile for the same reason. Both states then blames the federal government for not providing them instant replenishment of their inventories. Where was the enforcement of standards?

3. Equipment: Adjusted for inflation, how many public safety providers are seeing an increase in budgets allowing them to maintain staffing and equipment standards, let alone add new new technology at adequate deployment levels.

How much response equipment has been taken out of service nationally due to staffing reductions?

How much response equipment has exceeded its expected life cycle, and kept in service due to lack of funding to replace it?

4. Political support: How much support is public safety getting from elected officials, especially in our larger municipalities. Can anyone say that law enforcement officers are being adequately supported in New York City?

How much more emphasis is placed on supporting those with grievances against public safety, as opposed to supporting those who provide public safety services. (Black lives matter versus Blue lives matter for example.)

5. Priorities: Far too much public money goes to non-profit staffing of a multitude of agencies that would be much better spent supporting under staffed and under-equipped public safety providers. We have tax payer supported advocacy agencies for just about every type of 'victim' from children's advocacy, to planned parenthood's abortion clinics, to supporting arts at a higher priority than public safety. (Explain the reason behind the priority of the Kennedy Center's special grant of $25M, and then watching them law off their people, while others are begging for the feds to replace their auctioned off ventilators.)

I could go on for pages, citing standards and recommended guidelines that have been in place for years, but I hope this brief response makes my point.

Edited April 8, 2020 by FiredogCruiser
spelling

[Host Carolyn]

Back to topic, please.......which is not law enforcement preparedness etc

 

Thank you!

[glrounds]

On 4/7/2020 at 11:08 AM, MarLieb said:

 

 

• Commercial flights and public transportation may not be used.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/cruise-ship/what-cdc-is-doing.html

 

What transportation that Carnival would pay for is NOT PUBLIC ?

[cyclist_guy1]

If cruise lines are forced to provide private transportation to disembarking passengers to get them home those costs will ultimately be passed on to the passengers. Thus cruise costs will go up. Should be interesting to follow how this plays out.

[Roger88]

4 minutes ago, cyclist_guy1 said:

If cruise lines are forced to provide private transportation to disembarking passengers to get them home those costs will ultimately be passed on to the passengers. Thus cruise costs will go up. Should be interesting to follow how this plays out.

They will be reflected in the overall price of the cruise. Expect the prices to jump up to 20-30$. According to some news channel I ve been watching, all these measures will increase the total prices of the cruisers by 30% in general. They will also be allowed to charge you extra if there will be situations like the one where you have to be transported privately. Companies lost a lot of money by doing it. They want it back. So be sure to pay a little extra next time you book 

[MarLieb]

3 hours ago, glrounds said:

 

What transportation that Carnival would pay for is NOT PUBLIC ?

Charter flights, private buses and private cars are not public.  If you read through the Coral Princess thread you will get first hand accounts of how this is being handled under the guidelines.  

[MarLieb]

12 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

They will be reflected in the overall price of the cruise. Expect the prices to jump up to 20-30$. According to some news channel I ve been watching, all these measures will increase the total prices of the cruisers by 30% in general. They will also be allowed to charge you extra if there will be situations like the one where you have to be transported privately. Companies lost a lot of money by doing it. They want it back. So be sure to pay a little extra next time you book 

So this certainly doesn’t fall under the CDC guidelines as this ship is off the coast of Uruguay, but this is an interesting article about evacuating the Aurora in which they estimate it will cost about $9000 per person to charter a flight back to Australia.  Just gives a sense of how costly it is to charter private flights.  https://www.businessinsider.com/antarctic-cruise-ship-coronavirus-outbreak-2020-4

[cyclist_guy1]

21 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

They will be reflected in the overall price of the cruise. Expect the prices to jump up to 20-30$. According to some news channel I ve been watching, all these measures will increase the total prices of the cruisers by 30% in general. They will also be allowed to charge you extra if there will be situations like the one where you have to be transported privately. Companies lost a lot of money by doing it. They want it back. So be sure to pay a little extra next time you book 

ha jump up to 20-30$? wishful thinking. as someone else pointed out try cruise costs jumping possibly hundreds of dollars to cover private transportation costs.

[lottiegreen56]

Every time that I remind people that there are actual nazis still alive they look at my funny but do we really need anymore proof that we aren't that far removed from those atrocities? These rules are getting ridiculous 

[Radiioman46]

56 minutes ago, lottiegreen56 said:

Every time that I remind people that there are actual nazis still alive they look at my funny but do we really need anymore proof that we aren't that far removed from those atrocities? These rules are getting ridiculous 

If these rules stay in place even after this scare, goodbye to the cruise line industry. 

[lottiegreen56]

You people do realize that there isn't a shortage of ventilators, I just noticed people talking about that. The deployment of the ventilators are the point in the system that may be a problem but the gov't/media is misleading you on that issue in order to exert their views.