CDC 100 Day No Sail Order

[Butterbean1000]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, it gets a little gray.  The CDC cannot stop a cruise ship, with no passengers onboard, from leaving a US port and sailing to another country.  However, the USPH is tasked with prevention of introduction of infectious diseases into the US, so they can deny any ship, cruise or otherwise, from entering US waters, or require a quarantine for the ship.  The CDC is tasked with safekeeping the health of US citizens within the US, so they can deny a ship from embarking passengers if there is a perceived health risk.

Thank you for that explanation.  It's still "gray" to me.🙂

[LMaxwell]

33 minutes ago, 48traveler said:

The CDC order states that cruise ships can't board passengers and return to their sailing schedules until one of three events takes place:

• Expiration of the Department of Health and Human Services' declaration that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency.

• The CDC director's own decision to modify or rescind its no-sail decision.

• Passage of 100 days from the time the new order is published in the Federal Registry

 

The cruise lines have to have an actionable plan for evacuation and getting guests home that do not rely on the commercial systems

[LMaxwell]

35 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Question is, who does have the say

 

Well, in that regard it is up to the cruise lines to put plans in place; so they have control over being prepared to return to business when permissible 

[Nic6318]

Hi

 

I don't want to be overly pessimistic or overly optimistic, but I am willing to look at the situation as it is right now. I understand that we are all trying to guess on what might happen in a month or two or three. After all, just think back or look at what people were saying a month ago. Some were hoping this would all blow over. It very well could have, but it didn't. Just in the same way, we are doing the same now. It's called speculation because we just don't know, and we will be doing the same until it is over. Nobody is right just as nobody is wrong in the debate of when cruising will start again because nobody knows. 

 

For me, I see an issue in how some cruise lines are out there looking like (from their promotions) they are anticipating cruising again at any given moment. I don't blame them. That is what they want to happen. They want to have people lined up to sail as soon as that "all clear" rings. That's what their business is. So, some are being enticed by unusually low pricing/OBC's etc.,  and are hoping to go on a cruise in May/Jun/July. Reality is, we don't know. They might have a great time. It is just as likely that their cruise will be cancelled. Now you just end up with more people caught up in the refund/FCC maze. What I am seeing here is people are now willingly giving a company their money in the "hopes" that a product will be delivered as advertised, and it's just setting up disappointment. 

 

Back to my thoughts about cruising. I have said it on these threads before, but you can't have a cruise industry until borders are open. That isn't the case today. It may or may not be the case next month. It doesn't take any imagination to understand that a "lot" needs to happen before this changes. How long will this take...I don't know. Sounds like that car ride where the child asks, "are we there yet?"

 

 

[jimbo5544]

Discussion is actually a good thing.  Despite some claims to the contrary, Carnival is trying to sustain business and not at the cost of lives of their clients.  The same can be said for our country and the world. We have to find a way out, the status quo is not acceptable.  Whether it is May11 or Dec 1.  They are and should push the envelope to safely do that to the beat of their ability.   

[LMaxwell]

Just now, jperry2011 said:

The CDC will revise the order in my opinion before 100 days with less passenger sailings and better guidelines by the cruise companies on what to do if someone becomes I'll onboard. That's all I really have to say about this topic. Not much factual information it's all everyone's opinions.

 

 

How do you propose the cruise lines can meet the requirements put in here? https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/No-Sail-Order-Cruise-Ships_Extension_4-9-20-encrypted.pdf  

 

Pertinent section starts middle of page 6 

[jperry2011]

2 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

How do you propose the cruise lines can meet the requirements put in here? https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/No-Sail-Order-Cruise-Ships_Extension_4-9-20-encrypted.pdf  

 

Pertinent section starts middle of page 6 

Not too sure on some of the requirements. I believe with limited passengers onboard they could possibly move people to different cabin locations and keep certain sections empty. When someone shows symptoms and cant be held in the sick bay they move them to the "empty area". Temperature checks and all of that stuff is pretty easily done. Make plans with hospitals at whatever ports you are going to easily done also.

Nobody with any preexisting conditions that would hurt their survival chances with covid 19 allowed to board. 

 

The way testing has evolved it wouldn't surprise me if within a month or two they could tell in minutes if you are infected or not. Possibly do a drive up testing area prior to parking. Make everyone stay in their vehicles until the test comes back negative then they would be allowed to go through the boarding process. Sounds like a tall task but with limited passengers to begin with might be a possibility.

[LMaxwell]

As soon as you have 1 infected person onboard that ship is going to be barred from docking in the US, likely, and the plan to repatriate is on the cruise line.  That's a monumental task.  It's proven difficult to manage and setup for Zaandam, Rotterdam, and Coral Princess.  I don't know how the industry maintains those plans for dozens of ships at a time 

[Wizpharm2]

36 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

The cruise lines have to have an actionable plan for evacuation and getting guests home that do not rely on the commercial systems

Actually, the plan must rely on commercial resources.  It can NOT rely on public/government resources including use of the Coast Guard to evacuate ill patients.

[LMaxwell]

9 minutes ago, Wizpharm2 said:

Actually, the plan must rely on commercial resources.  It can NOT rely on public/government resources including use of the Coast Guard to evacuate ill patients.

 

Item 3; Section K "the use of commercial flights to evacuate or repatriate individuals, both within or from the United States, is prohibited" meaning charter. 

 

Although just before that they reference the need for commercial means to remove people from the vessel and not call the US Coast Guard.  That could have been worded better by the CDC; "Privately-hired" is more appropriate. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by LMaxwell

[Wizpharm2]

10 minutes ago, jperry2011 said:

Not too sure on some of the requirements. I believe with limited passengers onboard they could possibly move people to different cabin locations and keep certain sections empty. When someone shows symptoms and cant be held in the sick bay they move them to the "empty area". Temperature checks and all of that stuff is pretty easily done. Make plans with hospitals at whatever ports you are going to easily done also.

Nobody with any preexisting conditions that would hurt their survival chances with covid 19 allowed to board. 

 

The way testing has evolved it wouldn't surprise me if within a month or two they could tell in minutes if you are infected or not. Possibly do a drive up testing area prior to parking. Make everyone stay in their vehicles until the test comes back negative then they would be allowed to go through the boarding process. Sounds like a tall task but with limited passengers to begin with might be a possibility.

What if I fly to the port and then I am denied boarding due to a positive test?  Refund?  What about my traveling companions?

Would they re-test when reboarding at every port of call?

I can actually be infected and test negative on day One due to an insufficient viral load.

[Earthworm Jim]

18 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

I think it will be near impossible for Carnival, or any of the cruise lines, to satisfy the requirements for evacuations 

 

There's been some debate on this site regarding whether that CDC statement is enforceable or just a recommendation. It clearly says recommendations at the top, but when it gets to the cruise line bit it reads more like an order: : Cruise lines must arrange for disembarking travelers...

 

Either way, if the federal government was in favor or cruising resuming enough for the CDC director's to decide to modify or rescind its no-sail decision, or alternately the end of the public health emergency, they'd presumably end this order/recommendation at the same time.

 

Unless one thinks this is a permanent CDC order for the future, regardless of the COVID-19 pandemic. In which case cruising from America would be finished. I think that is highly unlikely.

[Wizpharm2]

8 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Item 3; Section K "the use of commercial flights to evacuate or repatriate individuals, both within or from the United States, is prohibited" meaning charter. 

 

Although just before that they reference the need for commercial means to remove people from the vessel and not call the US Coast Guard.  That could have been worded better by the CDC; "Privately-hired" is more appropriate. 

Agreed... but a cruise line charted flight would still use “commerical” assets.  The object is to not have the US government organize/charter the flight.

The US state department has spend a significant amount of time and resources “recusing” US citizens from cruise ships around the world.  Some are waiting for a ride home.

[jperry2011]

5 minutes ago, Wizpharm2 said:

What if I fly to the port and then I am denied boarding due to a positive test?  Refund?  What about my traveling companions?

Would they re-test when reboarding at every port of call?

I can actually be infected and test negative on day One due to an insufficient viral load.

I would imagine they would have to refund all of you if that is your traveling companions choice not to board.

 

Port of calls might be tricky but they wouldn't stop at any highly infected areas and probably have limited excursions available with only negative testing tour guides etc.

 

Testing negative on day one is a possibility but becoming alot less likely with the newer tests. Could still happen though but you would know for sure that 95+% of those infected wouldn't be boarding.

[Earthworm Jim]

32 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

How do you propose the cruise lines can meet the requirements put in here? https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/No-Sail-Order-Cruise-Ships_Extension_4-9-20-encrypted.pdf  

 

Pertinent section starts middle of page 6 

 

Well, presumably if the CDC felt COVID conditions had improved enough to lift the 100 day order, they'd also feel conditions had improved enough to lift the order in your link too. It's the same agency. Either they are ready for cruises to resume, or they are not. Lifting the 100 day order while leaving the other unimplementable (in regard to non-commercial transportation at least) obstacles in place wouldn't make any sense.

[cruisinmeme]

Goodness people let’s get rid of the virus off the ships before hopping on and expecting a good result. Valour was docked in New Orleans yesterday to start getting crew off. Apparently the cruise from February 29th started something that has yet to be cleared up. Even now that it is just crew the virus is still going around.

 

[LMaxwell]

7 minutes ago, Wizpharm2 said:

Agreed... but a cruise line charted flight would still use “commerical” assets.  The object is to not have the US government organize/charter the flight.

The US state department has spend a significant amount of time and resources “recusing” US citizens from cruise ships around the world.  Some are waiting for a ride home.

 

But they also don't want it being a case of the cruise lines dropping people off at airports and letting them take their own flights home.  It's on the cruise line to charter the plane and fly their passengers to a destination city.  

[Host Carolyn]

I'm not sure how we get from a CDC directive to debating who should or should not be admitted to hospitals, just plain rude remarks and slamming other people's opinions that have nothing to do with the topic at hand --- which is the cdc order and how it affects future cruises.

 

This is a difficult time and I know tempers can be short and each of us has our own set of circumstances that we're dealing with but please please try to be respectful and not judge people for their opinions.  I'm trying very hard to keep these threads on topic as well as allow you guys to debate them but name calling and things that are totally unrelated to the topic at hand just can't continue. It makes it impossible for people who really want to discuss — — not argue — — the topic at hand to do so. 

 

You may not have seen it or perhaps have forgotten it but I did create a topic at the top of this CARNIVAL board called "how are things where you live" and that would be a great place to discuss what is happening with your family and hometown.

 

Be well .....stay home....😷

[LMaxwell]

7 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

Well, presumably if the CDC felt COVID conditions had improved enough to lift the 100 day order, they'd also feel conditions had improved enough to lift the order in your link too. I

 

I would not be certain of that.  Clearly the old way of doing business is never returning. Much more responsibility will be shifted to the cruise lines going forward. 

[Joebucks]

50 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Discussion is actually a good thing.  Despite some claims to the contrary, Carnival is trying to sustain business and not at the cost of lives of their clients.  The same can be said for our country and the world. We have to find a way out, the status quo is not acceptable.  Whether it is May11 or Dec 1.  They are and should push the envelope to safely do that to the beat of their ability.   

 

The discussion to me is just a bunch of noise. Like you said, whether it is May 11 or Dec 1, it depends on what actually happens. We can discuss until we are blue in the face, but doesn't matter in the slightest.

 

I for one like to remain optimistic that it will end sooner than later and hope everyone gets back to enjoying cruises, safely. If it doesn't I don't need to debate to death why I think it should.

[Wizpharm2]

10 minutes ago, jperry2011 said:

I would imagine they would have to refund all of you if that is your traveling companions choice not to board.

 

Port of calls might be tricky but they wouldn't stop at any highly infected areas and probably have limited excursions available with only negative testing tour guides etc.

 

Testing negative on day one is a possibility but becoming alot less likely with the newer tests. Could still happen though but you would know for sure that 95+% of those infected wouldn't be boarding.

It only takes one positive person to infect the entire ship as seen with the Diamond Princess.  Patient zero got off in Hong Kong long before anyone knew he or anyone one else on board was infected.

[Radiioman46]

What I find puzzling is that there has never been a definition of what constitutes the conditions for the end game. IOW, what is the definition of circumstances that determine this COVID 19 crisis is over? 

[jperry2011]

1 minute ago, Wizpharm2 said:

It only takes one positive person to infect the entire ship as seen with the Diamond Princess.  Patient zero got off in Hong Kong long before anyone knew he or anyone one else on board was infected.

If your gonna take that assumption with no proof since there are no accurate antibodies tests then cruising will stop forever. Yep. LOL

[jimbo5544]

3 minutes ago, Radiioman46 said:

What I find puzzling is that there has never been a definition of what constitutes the conditions for the end game. IOW, what is the definition of circumstances that determine this COVID 19 crisis is over? 

Not sure anyone knows this and it may be that it never is.  That said, science may mitigate it.  When and how feasible is up in the air.  

[crewsweeper]

17 minutes ago, cruisinmeme said:

Goodness people let’s get rid of the virus off the ships before hopping on and expecting a good result. Valour was docked in New Orleans yesterday to start getting crew off. Apparently the cruise from February 29th started something that has yet to be cleared up. Even now that it is just crew the virus is still going around.

 

I agree.  Cruise lines should be deep cleaning and disinfecting every ship in their fleets. Then probably need to have some testing or certified clearance for passengers to board, and testing on reboarding in certain ports if not all.

Realize that's an additional hassle for cruisers, but probably a necessary on going procedure.  Latest stats seem to show more people between 30 and 60 are catching this that above 65.