No Sail Order extended - 100 days

[General's Lady]

Hey Peachtree, I invite you to visit New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland, Washington etc. and tell me and everyone else on this Forum that this is overblown.  When people you know around you start dying left and right including first responders, then we'll talk.  Plus all you have to do is divide the number of deaths in the U.S. by the number that have been identified each day and you come up with varying degrees from 2% to 3% not .01%, from the "flu" then do the same with the International numbers and it is even greater.  By the way it is only a matter of time till Georgia gets hit.  I know because my daughter lives in Georgia and she is out of work and works in the hospitality industry.  

[twins_to_alaska]

4 hours ago, marieps said:

Abbott test machines on board and in each embarkation terminal.  IMHO it would instill confidence to know my fellow passengers (and me) had been tested immediately prior to boarding.   

 

That might be false sense of security. I haven't heard about the Abbott tests specifically but read today that if you're positive for the coronavirus test that's accurate but there are many false negatives - up to 30% in one study - and that still doesn't account for folk who have been exposed/have the virus but aren't testing positive yet but could in 1, 2, 3 or more days into the cruise. If they would even be tested at that point as 20%+ asymptomatic.

Looks like tests for antibodies might be even worse - false negatives but also false positives so folk might think they've had and haven't.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hopes-home-fingerprick-coronavirus-test-dashed-after-accuracy-questioned-n1179541

Edited April 10, 2020 by twins_to_alaska

[dandee2]

27 minutes ago, General's Lady said:

Until there is universal testing, we are all guessing.  And as far as cruising in Europe, how does one propose to do that without flying there.  Luftansa has grounded all their huge planes permanently since the company feels airplane traffic will decrease significantly.  

 

Of course plane fly 20hr/day or more and sometime between different geographic area or continent. This is a risk that no country will accept if it can't be controlled or traceable. We will be stuck in our own country/continent until next year.

[dandee2]

4 hours ago, marieps said:

CLIA's plan should include ponying up to install multiple Abbott test machines on board and in each embarkation terminal.  

CLIA is a cruise ship organization. Each individual country will have to approve any methods, proceduress, equipement that will be used by cruises line. It will not happen tomorrow (Maybe the day after !!!)

[dandee2]

4 hours ago, jonthomas said:

 

There are still ships stuck out there. People are still suffering.

All of us need many reassurances in place, not just financial ones but the more important ones, like how do we  stay healthy while on and after a cruise. 

East Coast: 50 ships and 42000 crew members are waiting at anchorage.
West coast: 42 ships 45 ships and 32000 crew members also waiting.

I don't think they will want to work another 6 months contract after this. Where do you think the replacement worker will be coming from and thru which country?

[PTC DAWG]

More food for thought.

 

https://chicagocitywire.com/stories/530092711-roseland-hospital-phlebotomist-30-of-those-tested-have-coronavirus-antibody?fbclid=IwAR3ji_5ejMMzTUEE5Y-YN1PPtjD87IzrtlihxzxFCyBwByzObiZ-WdYbLH4

[PTC DAWG]

40 minutes ago, General's Lady said:

Hey Peachtree, I invite you to visit New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland, Washington etc. and tell me and everyone else on this Forum that this is overblown.  When people you know around you start dying left and right including first responders, then we'll talk.  Plus all you have to do is divide the number of deaths in the U.S. by the number that have been identified each day and you come up with varying degrees from 2% to 3% not .01%, from the "flu" then do the same with the International numbers and it is even greater.  By the way it is only a matter of time till Georgia gets hit.  I know because my daughter lives in Georgia and she is out of work and works in the hospitality industry.  

They have hammered our economy for sure...I totally agree with you there...I hope your daughter makes it through this debacle OK. 

[kwokpot]

48 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

More food for thought.

 

https://chicagocitywire.com/stories/530092711-roseland-hospital-phlebotomist-30-of-those-tested-have-coronavirus-antibody?fbclid=IwAR3ji_5ejMMzTUEE5Y-YN1PPtjD87IzrtlihxzxFCyBwByzObiZ-WdYbLH4

That's why it's imperative that the federal government assist in getting out testing equipment so we can test the population and determine the status of everyone. It's pretty much concensus among health professionals and State governors and even private industry CEOs. The only person that's resistant to testing everyone is the President.

[Pushka]

5 hours ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

"Overblown"?  Not for the passengers on the Ruby Princess.  The article's headline says it all.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/people-just-didnt-care-how-the-ruby-princess-cruise-ship-became-a-death-trap/2020/04/10/058ab45e-7a33-11ea-a311-adb1344719a9_story.html

 

 

 

15 passengers have died from taking this cruise. Over 650 positive infections throughout Australia and does not include any overseas passengers who comprised 40% of the passenger load. Over 100 crew positive with several in Hospital here, including 3 in ICU. From a 10 day cruise to New Zealand where New Zealanders are now testing positive. Then there is the taxi driver who took a Ruby passenger from ship to home who was put into ICU. 
 

There is now a criminal investigation. 
 

yeah,  it's just the flu. NOT!
 

And this 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/10/ruby-princess-battle-begins-to-hold-someone-accountable-for-cruise-ship-coronavirus-debacle

[marieps]

3 hours ago, dandee2 said:

CLIA is a cruise ship organization. Each individual country will have to approve any methods, proceduress, equipement that will be used by cruises line. It will not happen tomorrow (Maybe the day after !!!)

The lines must work in concert to combine resources and present a unified plan.  There's no way CCL and RCI can have two completely separate solutions, IMHO.  CDC will want a single methodology, one that convinces then and the cruising public.

[Rancher Dave]

2 hours ago, marieps said:

The lines must work in concert to combine resources and present a unified plan.  There's no way CCL and RCI can have two completely separate solutions, IMHO.  CDC will want a single methodology, one that convinces then and the cruising public.

To a large extent I agree.  Some specific lines may take it a step beyond what others do to stand out and use as a marketing ploy, but all will have to meet a minimum requirement that would be consistent across the entire CLIA member fleet. 

 

As others have said I would expect the cruise lines to cancel sailings a block at a time so they can handle all the processing.  What we may see first is that new bookings on some sailings are blocked before they are more formally cancelled. Eliminates more cancellation work down the road. 

 

I know some international tour operators are cancelling trips for July to Central America and they are likely not just doing so on a whim but based on information that have about when folks will be able to travel to in this case Costa Rica, again, but I would suspect other foreign destinations will be on the same plate soon as well.  It will be a while before we globetrot for fun again. 

 

[danv3]

The order is going to be published on April 15, so it's 100 days from then.

 

https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2020-07930

[TeeRick]

16 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

More food for thought.

 

https://chicagocitywire.com/stories/530092711-roseland-hospital-phlebotomist-30-of-those-tested-have-coronavirus-antibody?fbclid=IwAR3ji_5ejMMzTUEE5Y-YN1PPtjD87IzrtlihxzxFCyBwByzObiZ-WdYbLH4

Thank you.  

[twins_to_alaska]

As another board has posted - the Celebrity cruise contract 6 d) about refunds.

 

d. Carrier shall have the right to comply with any orders, recommendations, or directions whatsoever given by any governmental entity or by persons purporting to act with such authority and such compliance shall not be deemed a breach of this Agreement entitling the Passenger to assert any claim for liability, compensation or refund.

 

They'd probably still offer compensation but possibly not refund, just FCC. This is just US sailings of course unless other countries enact similar.

 

The order might actually be a boon for the cruise lines.

Edited April 11, 2020 by twins_to_alaska

[TeeRick]

2 hours ago, danv3 said:

The order is going to be published on April 15, so it's 100 days from then.

 

https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2020-07930

Thanks!

[TeeRick]

The Heavens and Earth was created in 6 days.  So is 94 more days really such a big deal to wait for a cruise?

[twins_to_alaska]

The CLIA statement

 

https://cruising.org/news-and-research/press-room/2020/april/clia-statement-regarding-no-sail-order

[ECCruise]

52 minutes ago, twins_to_alaska said:

The CLIA statement

 

https://cruising.org/news-and-research/press-room/2020/april/clia-statement-regarding-no-sail-order

They are a little cavalier with the facts.

the fact is cruising is neither the source or cause of the virus or its spread. 

[yorky]

8 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

They are a little cavalier with the facts.

the fact is cruising is neither the source or cause of the virus or its spread. 

How anyone can think cruising caused the virus to spread around the world rather than flying is rediculous.

[ECCruise]

12 minutes ago, yorky said:

How anyone can think cruising caused the virus to spread around the world rather than flying is rediculous.

Well there is this thing called "both".

Why in heavens name would you think it had to be "either/or?"

 

[yorky]

14 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Well there is this thing called "both".

Why in heavens name would you think it had to be "either/or?"

 

I guess if you could prove that the first case of the virus in any country in the world was brought in by a cruise passenger fair enough, I highly doubt that’s the case.

[Blackduck59]

7 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Well there is this thing called "both".

Why in heavens name would you think it had to be "either/or?"

 

indeed a valid point but let's agree that someone who flew somewhere passed it on to someone who flew somewhere and boarded a cruise and passed it around then those people flew somewhere and passed it around. Many of them having no idea or responsibility for passing it around. The largest outbreaks in Canada are from Air travel, cruise season hasn't started here. Many in the Metro Vancouver area are from travel BY AIR to and from China and Iran. So yes by both but the crap being flung at Cruising is exponentially greater than that on air travel, by far the more efficient spreader of COVID 19.

[phoenix_dream]

While it does seem to me that cruise lines are being singled out to a point regarding the virus, at the same time cruise ships (and as we are now seeing, any major ships like US Navy ships) have unique circumstances that unfortunately increase the risk of contamination a hundred fold.  To imply that the only reason you hear about cruises so much is that they are subject to reporting requirements is a load of bull IMHO.  I might have agreed with that for things like norovirus, which are unpleasant but generally don't kill.  For this, no I do not agree at all.

 

The facts are that cruise ships are unique compared to most other gatherings of people, including airplanes.  There are some similarities, sure - there are people all over the world on flights (or there were), and you are in an enclosed area and so on.  But it goes beyond that.  For example, on a flight you are onboard for only a relatively short period of time and the planes air circulation is much better than most people realize.  On a cruise you are onboard with people from many more countries (generally speaking) for long periods of time in much closer environments like riding elevators.  You are being served food by staff from all over the world, sitting in dining areas next to people from all over the world in close quarters (in Blu I could reach over and feed myself from my neighbor's plate!).  You might eat a buffet - many people do.  You are also 'stuck' for the length of the cruise (and these days possibly more).  At a resort or hotel or similar you have options to leave.  Not so on a ship.  On shore you have an option to call 911 if you are seriously ill.  Not so on a ship.

 

Yes, there are some communities like nursing homes and assisted living where conditions are similar.  But can anyone tell me these have not also been getting a boatload of press as well?  They sure have in my area.

[yorky]

1 minute ago, Blackduck59 said:

indeed a valid point but let's agree that someone who flew somewhere passed it on to someone who flew somewhere and boarded a cruise and passed it around then those people flew somewhere and passed it around. Many of them having no idea or responsibility for passing it around. The largest outbreaks in Canada are from Air travel, cruise season hasn't started here. Many in the Metro Vancouver area are from travel BY AIR to and from China and Iran. So yes by both but the crap being flung at Cruising is exponentially greater than that on air travel, by far the more efficient spreader of COVID 19.

The thing is that cruising added to the cases for sure, but the first cases in just about every country will have come from air travel, or those crossing borders. Maybe there is an example of an individual on a cruise ship bringing it into a country for the first time but I’ve not seen it.

[Saab4444]

It is absolutely true that cruise ships are just one form where crowds come together and the virus could spread fast and easily. Beside plans e.g. busses, trains, stadiums, fun parks, big hotels and beach resorts are no different and provide the same risk.