No Sail Order extended - 100 days

[drakes2]

2 minutes ago, Saab4444 said:

It is absolutely true that cruise ships are just one form where crowds come together and the virus could spread fast and easily. Beside plans e.g. busses, trains, stadiums, fun parks, big hotels and beach resorts are no different and provide the same risk.

Much more open areas in beach resorts therefore safer. IMO. 

[az_tchr]

Stepping away from the intense comments here.  

Maybe that several university presidents have begun planning to continue operating classes next fall totally online.  Would suggest universities are similar to cruise ships in that people travel from all over the World to join in classrooms, dormitories, etc to study.

There are videos posted from Arizona and Colorado among others in Q&A sessions.  

The two I viewed suggested resumption of classes this fall without either a vaccine or testing for both Covid19 AND another to show antibodies/immunity might cause classes to stay remotely held.

Universities are already putting early dates for enrollment acceptance and financial aid as enrollment is expected to fall significantly due to both financial and travel difficulties.  Numbers mentioned were all upward of 10%.

There is an obvious extension of this to the cruise industry.  

 

[az_tchr]

On 4/10/2020 at 3:12 PM, kwokpot said:

That's why it's imperative that the federal government assist in getting out testing equipment so we can test the population and determine the status of everyone. It's pretty much concensus among health professionals and State governors and even private industry CEOs. The only person that's resistant to testing everyone is the President.

Testing is absolutely imperative.  So is a test that is 99% accurate and can read even minute levels of the virus and give a reading fast.  We are not there yet.  In Arizona at least 2 private companies and U of Arizona are working on tests.  Presume dozens of others elsewhere

[marieps]

On 4/10/2020 at 1:39 PM, DaveSJ711 said:

 

"Overblown"?  Not for the passengers on the Ruby Princess.  The article's headline says it all.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/people-just-didnt-care-how-the-ruby-princess-cruise-ship-became-a-death-trap/2020/04/10/058ab45e-7a33-11ea-a311-adb1344719a9_story.html

 

 

This is why the media has the reputation in some circles that it has.  A headline that appears on its face to answer its own question.  Simply reverse the phases. "How the RP became a death trap....people just didn't care."  An editor with any sense of fairness would have flagged that headline.  

[kitty9]

On 4/10/2020 at 10:15 AM, General's Lady said:

Luftansa has grounded all their huge planes permanently since the company feels airplane traffic will decrease significantly.  We live in New York in the epicenter of this and right now on Long Island which is the newest hot spot.  American currently has just three departures daily.  Delta has grounded 95% of their fleet.  We are a long, long, way from getting out of this.  Ju

If you look closely at the picture, you will see jets parked on the runway at Pittsburgh International Airport.  This is just a small portion of all the jets that are there, and have been there for two weeks.  At last count, there are 126 jets, of every size, parked there. 

[PTC DAWG]

1 hour ago, kitty9 said:

If you look closely at the picture, you will see jets parked on the runway at Pittsburgh International Airport.  This is just a small portion of all the jets that are there, and have been there for two weeks.  At last count, there are 126 jets, of every size, parked there. 

Very sad, we have been played.  

[SeaHunt]

21 hours ago, Rancher Dave said:

As others have said I would expect the cruise lines to cancel sailings a block at a time so they can handle all the processing.  What we may see first is that new bookings on some sailings are blocked before they are more formally cancelled. Eliminates more cancellation work down the road. 

 

Sorry if this has already been brought over here, but here's the Princess response from the Princess board:

 

"Princess Cruises is aware of the recommendation by the U.S. government to extend the pause in cruise operations and we are making plans to cancel all scheduled sailings until July 1, 2020. Since this announcement was unexpected, we are making plans to minimize the disruption to our guests and will be sharing the details of our plan by the end of the business day Tuesday, April 14. Until those details are announced, we will not be in a position to discuss any scenarios or respond to questions. We ask our guests for their patience, and encourage them to watch their email and Princess.com for updates".

[kitty9]

30 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

Very sad, we have been played.  

What do you mean, we’ve been played?   This is not some photoshopped thing. Just go to triblive.com and put “parked aircraft” in the search box. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by kitty9

[1SGCruiser]

33 minutes ago, kitty9 said:

What do you mean, we’ve been played?   This is not some photoshopped thing. Just go to triblive.com and put “parked aircraft” in the search box. 

It's not that he believes that the picture is fake.  I think he means that, in his mind, the pandemic is a hoax - or at least it's been overhyped relative to its importance and danger to the world's population.  Therefore,  our lives and the economy are paying an unnecessary price due to this sequestering policy.  I'm sure he'll let me know if I've mistakenly represented him.

Edited April 12, 2020 by 1SGCruiser

[TeeRick]

14 hours ago, az_tchr said:

Testing is absolutely imperative.  So is a test that is 99% accurate and can read even minute levels of the virus and give a reading fast.  We are not there yet.  In Arizona at least 2 private companies and U of Arizona are working on tests.  Presume dozens of others elsewhere

Yes I agree.  But we really need the rapid antibody test and hope that: 1) it is 100% accurate, and 2) folks walking around with SARS-CoV-2 antibodies are protected from re-infection.  There is only one county right now in my state (PA) that is gearing up to do the rapid antibody test.  I have been healthy but would love to know if I had been exposed and if I have antibodies.

[Blackduck59]

TeeRick, thank you so much for using the SARS-CoV-2 designation; pointing out that this is actually the 2nd or new SARS virus. This is not influenza. People dismiss this as "just another flu" at their own peril and that of those around them. I hope that your country is able to get a handle on this soon. I was shocked and saddened the other day when news showed that New York had more COVID 19 deaths in 1 day than Canada has suffered to date, so sad. Keep safe everyone and I hope that the companies that make the tests can ramp up production to meet demand and that all of the scientist around the world can work collaboratively to find an effective treatment and quickly develop a vaccine, which will be widely accepted and used. Vaccines are pretty useless if they aren't used. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Blackduck59
typo

[marieps]

14 hours ago, SeaHunt said:

 

Sorry if this has already been brought over here, but here's the Princess response from the Princess board:

 

"Princess Cruises is aware of the recommendation by the U.S. government to extend the pause in cruise operations and we are making plans to cancel all scheduled sailings until July 1, 2020. Since this announcement was unexpected, we are making plans to minimize the disruption to our guests and will be sharing the details of our plan by the end of the business day Tuesday, April 14. Until those details are announced, we will not be in a position to discuss any scenarios or respond to questions. We ask our guests for their patience, and encourage them to watch their email and Princess.com for updates".

I don't see any coverage of this anywhere.  Thanks for posting.  A CCL director just about $10 mil worth of stock.  Let's hope he made a good bet.

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, Blackduck59 said:

TeeRick, thank you so much for using the SARS-CoV-2 designation; pointing out that this is actually the 2nd or new SARS virus. This is not influenza. People dismiss this as "just another flu" at their own peril and that of those around them. I hope that your country is able to get a handle on this soon. I was shocked and saddened the other day when news showed that New York had more COVID 19 deaths in 1 day than Canada has suffered to date, so sad. Keep safe everyone and I hope that the companies that make the tests can ramp up production to meet demand and that all of the scientist around the world can work collaboratively to find an effective treatment and quickly develop a vaccine, which will be widely accepted and used. Vaccines are pretty useless if they aren't used. 

Right now (April 12) there are 533,000 positives (by test) in the US and you can add many many more if everybody could be tested.  Over 238,000 of those confirmed positives are in NY/NJ or about 45% of the cases in the US.  No other state or area is even close to these numbers.  That is one reason that the outside world sees the US as one big number but within the US there are big areas with very little virus and perhaps a few people in these areas view themselves at less risk.  I'm not implying that is a correct attitude but it perhaps might offer an explanation to those outside our vast country why our response sometimes seems erratic.

[Blackduck59]

I really do understand how big the US is, it's just a little smaller than Canada but has 10x the population. We have larger outbreaks in Quebec and Ontario, of course they have the largest population densities. And living on the west coast  Vancouver and Seattle are very close and both have fairly significant outbreaks.That being said I think Washington state and here in BC we got on the self isolation and social distancing protocol quite quickly. Regardless of where we are, be safe, be aware and do our part to slow this thing

[TeeRick]

4 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

I really do understand how big the US is, it's just a little smaller than Canada but has 10x the population. We have larger outbreaks in Quebec and Ontario, of course they have the largest population densities. And living on the west coast  Vancouver and Seattle are very close and both have fairly significant outbreaks.That being said I think Washington state and here in BC we got on the self isolation and social distancing protocol quite quickly. Regardless of where we are, be safe, be aware and do our part to slow this thing

In my earlier years a few people in my age group dodged the draft and the Vietnam War and found sanctuary in Canada.  Unfortunately there is no sanctuary from SARS-CoV-2 virus and COVID-19 disease.

[Cachecara]

On 4/10/2020 at 1:23 PM, PTC DAWG said:

I’m not sure many understand the effect this is having on many sectors of the economy.  
 

On another note, folks die, every day. We have a vaccine for the Flu..it kills many every year..yeah, I think this is overblown...call me a skeptic of the panic..every Governor trying to outdo the other on restrictions. The projections of death keep going down.  But I doubt it will ever be gone for good, just like the Flu...

Overblown? Really. Interesting POV. 
I  invite you to the state of NJ.  Specifically, our healthcare units.  
Personally,  I have lost a fellow nurse to this overblown hoax.  I have friends working there butts off and risking their own health and families’ health.  All for an overblown reaction.  
Then I invite you to observe what’s going on in our long term care settings.  
There are NO staff left.  These facilities were not given or ran out of PPE long ago.  My daughter is a Director of Activities, think cruise director.  She received an N95 mask about 11 days ago. Most of the staff are using and rewashing cloth masks. 
She has been frantic the last week.  Staff are getting sick.  So that means at a minimum they can not come back to work in less than 10 days. Residents, who prior to Covid , were healthy, are dying. There are staff who are refusing to come to work and risk theirselves etc for 11 bucks an hour. 
 My daughter is the liaison between resident and family via video facing.  For some that was their last contact with family.  Yesterday she called crying.  There were so little nurses and Cna’s that my daughter was assigned patient care.  Today there are no nurses on 3 floors.  No cna’s on two of those. She is doing patient care today.  She is totally PTSD along with so many thousands of others, that certainly do not think this is the overblown.  
SMDH.  

[Charles4515]

 

Sorry if this has already been brought over here, but here's the Princess response from the Princess board:

 

"Princess Cruises is aware of the recommendation by the U.S. government to extend the pause in cruise operations and we are making plans to cancel all scheduled sailings until July 1, 2020. Since this announcement was unexpected, we are making plans to minimize the disruption to our guests and will be sharing the details of our plan by the end of the business day Tuesday, April 14. Until those details are announced, we will not be in a position to discuss any scenarios or respond to questions. We ask our guests for their patience, and encourage them to watch their email and Princess.com for updates".

 

They say the announcement was unexpected! What world are they living in? I don’t believe they didn’t expect it. Someone used the word played in this thread. I think an appropriate use of the word played is how Princess is treating their customers.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Iamcruzin]

On 4/10/2020 at 9:28 AM, PTC DAWG said:

Agree..fine to be on a plane, but not on a cruise, makes no sense.  
 

 

Airlines have cut and canceled flights. Cruising is a nonessential form of travel. Trains and planes are still essential. Makes perfect sense to shut down the cruise lines considering it's a vacation to places that aren't even accepting visitors and the tourist attractions are all closed.

[Shadow9612]

11 hours ago, Cachecara said:

Overblown? Really. Interesting POV. 
I  invite you to the state of NJ.  Specifically, our healthcare units.  
Personally,  I have lost a fellow nurse to this overblown hoax.  I have friends working there butts off and risking their own health and families’ health.  All for an overblown reaction.  
Then I invite you to observe what’s going on in our long term care settings.  
There are NO staff left.  These facilities were not given or ran out of PPE long ago.  My daughter is a Director of Activities, think cruise director.  She received an N95 mask about 11 days ago. Most of the staff are using and rewashing cloth masks. 
She has been frantic the last week.  Staff are getting sick.  So that means at a minimum they can not come back to work in less than 10 days. Residents, who prior to Covid , were healthy, are dying. There are staff who are refusing to come to work and risk theirselves etc for 11 bucks an hour. 
 My daughter is the liaison between resident and family via video facing.  For some that was their last contact with family.  Yesterday she called crying.  There were so little nurses and Cna’s that my daughter was assigned patient care.  Today there are no nurses on 3 floors.  No cna’s on two of those. She is doing patient care today.  She is totally PTSD along with so many thousands of others, that certainly do not think this is the overblown.  
SMDH.  

We are fortunate to have so many health care workers, front line workers, essential services workers, and the list goes on.  I am grateful - thank you for going to work every day, so that we have a chance to return to work one day and to be cared for if we get Covid-19.

 

I really wish people would't minimize this.  I can only hope that even when they think it's overblown, that they still follow public health guidelines and stay home (for example).   I'd be ok if they later think they were right. 

 

Let's get through this crisis...stay healthy everyone. 

[Ronin23]

On 4/12/2020 at 3:14 AM, Saab4444 said:

It is absolutely true that cruise ships are just one form where crowds come together and the virus could spread fast and easily. Beside plans e.g. busses, trains, stadiums, fun parks, big hotels and beach resorts are no different and provide the same risk.

Simply not true, the area that cruise ships differ is that your are confined to a small space with many thousands of people for a long period of time and can’t escape. The other examples you mention you can easily remove yourself from, not so easy on a cruise ship.

[Saab4444]

19 minutes ago, Ronin23 said:

Simply not true, the area that cruise ships differ is that your are confined to a small space with many thousands of people for a long period of time and can’t escape. The other examples you mention you can easily remove yourself from, not so easy on a cruise ship.

On a cruise you are in your private cabin over night and on land during most days, you eat with many other people and can decide if you join entertainment options or crowded pool decks with many others or not, not that much different to a land hotel resort vacation. And the total time you spend together with crowds does not make the difference, some hours in a bus, train or plane are more than sufficient to get the virus. 

[Boatharbour]

On 4/11/2020 at 3:39 AM, DaveSJ711 said:

 

"Overblown"?  Not for the passengers on the Ruby Princess.  The article's headline says it all.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/people-just-didnt-care-how-the-ruby-princess-cruise-ship-became-a-death-trap/2020/04/10/058ab45e-7a33-11ea-a311-adb1344719a9_story.html

 

 

To add to this story...another two passengers from the Ruby Princess died in Australia today. 

[Ronin23]

31 minutes ago, Boatharbour said:

To add to this story...another two passengers from the Ruby Princess died in Australia today. 

Another interesting note is that they are saying patient zero was a crew member in the galley. Will be interesting to see the implications for Carnival if true. 

[Boatharbour]

10 minutes ago, Ronin23 said:

Another interesting note is that they are saying patient zero was a crew member in the galley. Will be interesting to see the implications for Carnival if true. 

18 passengers now deceased and over 40% of the Australian passengers have become infected. Alarmingly, nearly 1000 passengers flew overseas after the cruise,  many to the US.

[TeeRick]

I am of the personal opinion that we need to stop beating up cruise lines, airlines, bus lines, public markets, governments, whatever, and maybe even ourselves. Some will disagree that is ok with me.  Beat me up here if it helps you.    It is just frustrating and unproductive, to me anyway, to point at and blame events in the past which were out of our knowledge at the time and out of our control.  It is easier for me to just understand my options now given what's happened and help myself, my family and others as I can. 

 

In retrospect everything contributed to the pandemic.  It came on extremely fast - much too fast for countries or companies or individuals or governments to properly plan and react.  Trying to narrow it down to one cruise ship is just like taking one infected jelly bean out of a jar of a million infected jelly beans.  We will never really identify jelly bean zero.  That does not matter at this point.  The Genie was let out of the bottle sometime in 2019 and we had some clues from China but it really was too late.  New data from blood banks in San Francisco shows people had viral antibodies there- in the US- as early as December 2019.  Heck I cruised on Eclipse in early January happily unaware.  It was probably already there.