NCL lost our trust forever

[spanishguy1970]

10 minutes ago, Zippeedee said:

Sorry! I thought you were on the TA from NYC to Southampton in April.  

No worries, but it seems the Getaway was a curse last year. You had problems with it and so did we, but fortunately or unfortunately we did the whole itinerary, however their private island was a bust. LOL

Edited April 14, 2020 by spanishguy1970

[buckeyefrank]

1 hour ago, manorf said:

What a load of rubbish.

1. They have plenty of staff from other support departments who could be transferred to the accounts / finance dept.

2. You ever sold on ebay? If an item you sold is out of stock / didn't arrive / broken / returned - you push 2 buttons and the buyer gets refunded to their original payment source.

Simples....

1  Not necessarily.  They are likely not going to trust people from other support departments to process credits

2  Apples to Oranges comparison.  Ebay's system is set up to handle refunds of that sort.  NCL is not.

 

I do believe all the major cruise lines are milking the clock to an extent, however; it is not just as easy as "pushing a button on a batch".  There is a lot of human interaction to get this done.

[Waquoit]

3 hours ago, PATRLR said:

Entire refund for the paid-in-full cruise.  This is a cruise that NCL cancelled.  I simply stated that the cruise was cancelled and I didn't want to wait 90 days for my refund.  I offered to provide documentation of the cancellation but they never requested it.  The credit card is through Chase. 

 

Thanks to your inspiration, I went ahead and initiated proceedings with my Amex. I gave then the entire story as I knew it and they went ahead started the dispute process. The one question they asked was "What day did I learn about the cancellation?" It's going to be a lot tougher for NCL to stiff Amex than me, I would imagine.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Waquoit
spelling

[tonit964]

Plus, the credit card company only gives you a certain amount of time to dispute a charge, so if we wait the 90 and still haven't got the refund, the CC company may pushback on why you waited so long.

[Waquoit]

3 minutes ago, tonit964 said:

Plus, the credit card company only gives you a certain amount of time to dispute a charge, so if we wait the 90 and still haven't got the refund, the CC company may pushback on why you waited so long.

That's what I'm thinking. I can easily see NCL doing an Otter from Animal House, "You [screwed] up, you trusted us!"

[julig22]

3 minutes ago, tonit964 said:

Plus, the credit card company only gives you a certain amount of time to dispute a charge, so if we wait the 90 and still haven't got the refund, the CC company may pushback on why you waited so long.

No, they wouldn't.  The rules are different for services not received.  You were told you would get a refund in 90 days.  If you do not, the time-line would start at that point because the dispute is that you didn't get the promised refund.  More than one person who contacted their bank has already been told to wait the 90 days.

 

[trummy]

The longer cruise companies take to issue refunds, the longer the cash stays in their account. The longer the cash stays in their account, the more interest THEY earn. It's not about you, it's about their bank balance.

Edited April 14, 2020 by trummy

[Waquoit]

16 minutes ago, julig22 said:

 More than one person who contacted their bank has already been told to wait the 90 days.

 

But not by Amex and Chase.

[julig22]

12 minutes ago, Waquoit said:

But not by Amex and Chase.

Actually, I believe it was Amex.

Edited April 14, 2020 by julig22

[jingle5616]

2 hours ago, Zippeedee said:

  We were told there was one person per ship assigned to issuing refunds. It took some on our roll call up to five months or so before they had all they were owed.  

 

 

 

 

If this is how NCL handles their customer service, it truly is a crappy company.  I don't think this is the issue.  The issue is they don't have money and they are using anything they have their hands on to continue on.  NCL is toast.  Hopefully they don't nick customers to harshly in their chapter 11 re-organization.  

[Waquoit]

40 minutes ago, julig22 said:

Actually, I believe it was Amex.

 

I got off the phone with Amex 2 hours ago, right after they accepted my disputed charge. They did not tell me to wait 90 days.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Waquoit

[julig22]

2 minutes ago, Waquoit said:

 

I got off the phone with Amex 2 hours ago, right after they accepted my disputed charge. They did not tell me to wait 90 days.

They have to accept your dispute and follow through.  Just repeating what was posted on another discussion.  Doesn't mean that they won't close the dispute after contacting NCL.

[AL3XCruise]

7 hours ago, KateQ22003 said:

Yea, no. The money should all be sitting in one accrual account for cruises paid for but not taken. That's on the liability side of the balance sheet.

That isn't how that works.  A liability doesn't mean the company has liquid assets sitting in an account somewhere to pay it off.  Few companies due unless there is regulatory requirement to do so.  NCLH had $1.95 billion in "advanced ticket sales" as a liability on the balance sheet at the end of 2019, vs $252 million in cash and around $500 million other current assets.  So not only is the money not in one account, it doesn't exist.

 

You car argue all you want that they should have a bigger cash reserve to better handle downturns, but the fact is they don't. 

[Newleno]

1 minute ago, AL3XCruise said:

 

You car argue all you want that they should have a bigger cash reserve to better handle downturns, but the fact is they don't. 

Exactly and that is why IF you can get your money now do it!

[Ms BumbleBee]

Here is the deal.  Excursions and taxes and port fees have an existing workflow.  All of those could be refunded at a click of the button.  The reason those are not (and are really what annoys me as that is not their money other than their cut of excursions) is because THEY SPENT IT.  The whole excuse of no process does not ring true - the fact is there is no money to refund so the hope is that 90 days gives them time to hopeful hook more reservations - I mean my 5/16 cruise is still open for booking and they know it won’t go (Alaska via Seattle) but if they can get a deposit then they will take it.

 

While the other cruise lines may be doing it - I have yet to see anyone with these tight timelines and ridiculous refund process.  I cancelled an excursion 30 days ago - still no refund.  That money should never have been spent by them but times are tight.  They spent our gov’t taxes and port fees - that money was not ever theirs to spend but yet its gone.  

 

This has nothing to do with complexity - for ANY of the cruise lines, it’s cash flow and I bet they are weighing bankruptcy especially as this continues.  

[luv2kroooz]

3 hours ago, trummy said:

The longer cruise companies take to issue refunds, the longer the cash stays in their account. The longer the cash stays in their account, the more interest THEY earn. It's not about you, it's about their bank balance.

True, I'm just not convinced the money is currently in their accounts. I am thinking they are low on available cash and are hoping to time the issuance of refunds with customer deposits on future cruises once the industry opens up. This way they don't have to draw on their lines of credit and pay interest to the banks. Just my theory....

[luv2kroooz]

9 minutes ago, Ms BumbleBee said:

Here is the deal.  

Your entire post was well written. I agree with the theory you outlined.

[njhorseman]

5 minutes ago, blcruising said:

True, I'm just not convinced the money is currently in their accounts. I am thinking they are low on available cash and are hoping to time the issuance of refunds with customer deposits on future cruises once the industry opens up. This way they don't have to draw on their lines of credit and pay interest to the banks. Just my theory....

They just got an infusion of $1.55 billion, so more cash is available.

[luv2kroooz]

2 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

They just got an infusion of $1.55 billion, so more cash is available.

Oh, ok. I missed that. Do you know what the interest rate is on that money? Tx!

[njhorseman]

15 minutes ago, Ms BumbleBee said:

Here is the deal.  Excursions and taxes and port fees have an existing workflow.  All of those could be refunded at a click of the button.  The reason those are not (and are really what annoys me as that is not their money other than their cut of excursions) is because THEY SPENT IT.  The whole excuse of no process does not ring true - the fact is there is no money to refund so the hope is that 90 days gives them time to hopeful hook more reservations - I mean my 5/16 cruise is still open for booking and they know it won’t go (Alaska via Seattle) but if they can get a deposit then they will take it.

 

While the other cruise lines may be doing it - I have yet to see anyone with these tight timelines and ridiculous refund process.  I cancelled an excursion 30 days ago - still no refund.  That money should never have been spent by them but times are tight.  They spent our gov’t taxes and port fees - that money was not ever theirs to spend but yet its gone.  

 

This has nothing to do with complexity - for ANY of the cruise lines, it’s cash flow and I bet they are weighing bankruptcy especially as this continues.  

 

5 minutes ago, blcruising said:

Your entire post was well written. I agree with the theory you outlined.

 

Sorry, but the post shows a lack of knowledge about normal business practices. When a company takes in cash they don't hold on to it just in case they have to make a refund. It's used to pay their ongoing current expenses with some retained as cash on the books. The advance payments are booked as liabilities. 

 

We have an unprecedented emergency . None of the major cruise lines...in fact businesses of all types don't have the cash on hand to cover what's suddenly having to be paid out all at once. Airlines have the same problem as the cruise lines, for example.

[njhorseman]

3 minutes ago, blcruising said:

Oh, ok. I missed that. Do you know what the interest rate is on that money? Tx!

I don't know off hand and I 'm not about to spend the time needed to wade through the credit facility contracts. You can be sure it's substantial though...I think Carnival paid something around 12% to borrow several billion.

[tonit964]

2 hours ago, julig22 said:

They have to accept your dispute and follow through.  Just repeating what was posted on another discussion.  Doesn't mean that they won't close the dispute after contacting NCL.

I'm thinking that just because the cruise lines tell you to wait 90 days which is totally unreasonable in my opinion, the bank certainly is not going to expect you to wait that long just because that's what you've been told to do.

 

My sail date has come and gone without me on a ship which I paid for in full and I'm supposed to wait for them? I don't think any bank would side with then on that issue.

[Ms BumbleBee]

15 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

 

 

Sorry, but the post shows a lack of knowledge about normal business practices. When a company takes in cash they don't hold on to it just in case they have to make a refund. It's used to pay their ongoing current expenses with some retained as cash on the books. The advance payments are booked as liabilities. 

 

We have an unprecedented emergency . None of the major cruise lines...in fact businesses of all types don't have the cash on hand to cover what's suddenly having to be paid out all at once. Airlines have the same problem as the cruise lines, for example.

 

Hmmm well I am a Senior VP of a Fortune 100 financial institution - I will make sure to let my company know I am incompetent and lack knowledge of normal business practices.  Good to know.  I am sure if we ran our company as NCL we would be shutdown in a millisecond but carry on

[Comi.uy]

The 125% + 20% worked wonders for me. Turned a 11 day cruise to a 31 b2b cruise with a better room adding just 1000, that I didnt add yet and plenty of time to cancel if things are messy still by the end of the year. To each their own, NCL is doing the best it can. But yes, the money should be returned faster

[Buford T Justiice]

Just a data point: IRS was able to take a new stimulus law, design systems, and starting get direct deposits out in two weeks... got my stimulus money today!