When will things start back up?

[Queen of DaNile]

I would think he believes he has a very firm legal standing or else he would not be stating it.

[Host Jazzbeau]

My guess is that ultimately the CDC will actually give him a very strong legal basis.  They are going to reach a point where there is plenty of vaccine supply but no more willing arms for jabs.  They ultimate goal is herd immunity, but they don't have a stick to force people to get vaccinated.  So they will need carrots – and cruising could be one of those carrots.  So they will suddenly be interested in a Sail Order based on 100% vaccination.  But to work (as a carrot) it would also have to be workable for the cruise lines – suddenly their attitude becomes cooperation not confrontation!  [And, to circle back to the point of this post:  a CDC Sail Order that requires 100% vaccination gives the cruise lines all the legal basis they need to enforce it against passengers and local politicians.]

[njhorseman]

5 hours ago, Paulchili said:

Do you really think that will deter the antivaxers from claiming discrimination and being denied their personal freedom?

We see it happening all over the country in certain areas.

Will FDR have legal standing in denying them boarding?

Complaining and have a valid legal claim of discrimination are two entirely different things.  There are specifically defined reasons for what constitutes illegal discrimination in public accommodations such as discrimination on the basis of race, national origin, religion, disability, etc. Being an anti vaxxer or self proclaimed libertarian don't qualify as protected classes.

[pinotlover]

Today’s paper had an editorial from a national law group on this issue. Depending upon the courts, public necessities such as public transportation, grocery stores, and even government offices could/would be legally viewed in an entirely different light than non necessities such as sporting events, concerts, and amusement parks. Cruising clearly falls into the latter group.

 

As far as law suits, where are you going to sue a foreign entity, over a published protocols, to get on a foreign flagged ship, in a foreign country? 😂😂. Sounds more like a hog call to me Soo -EEE, or is that Sue-EEE!

[LHT28]

10 hours ago, njhorseman said:

FDR has already stated in the cruising resumption plan he filed with the CDC last week that all NCLH adult passengers and crew will have to be vaccinated.

My take on Paul's comment  was

Americans  will complain  because "they have the right  to " _______  fill in the blank

If they do not want to be vaccinated but want to cruise 

 

[ORV]

What are the demographics/politics of the main groups not wanting to be vaccinated? Very interesting. 

[pinotlover]

4 minutes ago, ORV said:

What are the demographics/politics of the main groups not wanting to be vaccinated? Very interesting. 

Adding to ORV’s question on demographics, what the percentage of antivaxers that would actually go on a cruise?

 

What damages are we discussing for not being allowed to sail? Enough that a law firm would take the case on without substantial money up front? Can that demographic afford the lawyer s ?

[clo]

12 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I've already written all four you name off until 2024 at the earliest.  AU/NZ have created a bubble but forgot that you need some vaccine to ever reach herd immunity so they will stay bubbled up indefinitely.  Canada is finally starting to put some jabs in arms, but way behind the US.  The question is why isn't the country with such a good vaccination rate [US] opening up?  Answer: CDC.

 

So I'm taking my money where they want me.  As I noted, there are plenty of countries that do want US tourists and even [shock!] cruisers.  That's where you'll find me.  Have fun at home.

Why on earth do you think I'm going to be at home? Don't you do any travel other than cruises? I actually find that incredibly sad.

[njhorseman]

21 minutes ago, ORV said:

What are the demographics/politics of the main groups not wanting to be vaccinated? Very interesting. 

This provides some insight:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2021/03/11/here-are-the-groups-who-dont-want-a-vaccine-and-trump-voters-are-near-top/?sh=7bd613549478

 

As does this;

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/04/07/984697573/vaccine-refusal-may-put-herd-immunity-at-risk-researchers-warn

 

[pinotlover]

If the major cruise lines don’t have most of their fleets going by March 22, you don’t have to worry about any of it. They’re bankrupt and gone. Will take years to rebuild any semblance of the industry.

[TrulyBlonde]

27 minutes ago, ORV said:

What are the demographics/politics of the main groups not wanting to be vaccinated? Very interesting. 

I live in a very liberal county in CO. Heavily Dem, Sanctuary city, etc. Our issue here is the Hispanic workforce in surrounding counties that do not want to be vaccinated and are afraid of it.

I offered to pay my housekeeper to get the vaccine and signed her up for it. She won't get it. I pay her $35 and hour and am getting ready to look for a new housekeeper. She will have a choice, work for minimum wage at a hotel or work for me. 

 

I also have to beg them to wear a mask or at least put it over their nose.

Edited April 16, 2021 by TrulyBlonde

[clo]

4 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

If the major cruise lines don’t have most of their fleets going by March 22, you don’t have to worry about any of it. They’re bankrupt and gone. Will take years to rebuild any semblance of the industry.

"Que sera sera."

[ORV]

29 minutes ago, clo said:

"Que sera sera."

Once again, if you hate cruise lines so much why are you here? They're a business, they do things that offend many people on a moral, environmental, legal, labor rules and probably a host of other issues. This is nothing new, it's the way they operate. I'm sure you could find plenty of products in your home from companies that operate just as bad or worse. You can probably start with whatever technology product you're interacting with this website on. I suggest you start by taking it and throwing it in your recycle bin, then you could feel good about taking a stand. 

[ORV]

51 minutes ago, TrulyBlonde said:

I live in a very liberal county in CO. Heavily Dem, Sanctuary city, etc. Our issue here is the Hispanic workforce in surrounding counties that do not want to be vaccinated and are afraid of it.

I offered to pay my housekeeper to get the vaccine and signed her up for it. She won't get it. I pay her $35 and hour and am getting ready to look for a new housekeeper. She will have a choice, work for minimum wage at a hotel or work for me. 

 

I also have to beg them to wear a mask or at least put it over their nose.

Sounds like it's hard to find good help there. Where I live McDonalds has signs out, Text XXXX for a job, starting pay $15 an hour. It's almost impossible to find people to work here, and we're not in a metropolitan area, it is a huge tourist area, but historically not a high paying area. 

[TrulyBlonde]

21 minutes ago, ORV said:

Sounds like it's hard to find good help there. Where I live McDonalds has signs out, Text XXXX for a job, starting pay $15 an hour. It's almost impossible to find people to work here, and we're not in a metropolitan area, it is a huge tourist area, but historically not a high paying area. 

We do get good help here. The issue is that it is a very expensive place to live and everyone must commute because they cannot afford a home here. My housekeeper is very good, worked hard to learn English, has two children born in USA and a decent person. However, our health and safety is most important to us and this is really bothering me. I hate to lose her, but I hate to risk getting the Covid after locking up for over a year.

[clo]

41 minutes ago, ORV said:

Once again, if you hate cruise lines so much why are you here? They're a business, they do things that offend many people on a moral, environmental, legal, labor rules and probably a host of other issues. This is nothing new, it's the way they operate. I'm sure you could find plenty of products in your home from companies that operate just as bad or worse. You can probably start with whatever technology product you're interacting with this website on. I suggest you start by taking it and throwing it in your recycle bin, then you could feel good about taking a stand. 

I don't hate cruising whatsoever. But there are plenty of businesses and industries that forever go out of business. That's what will be will be means.

[Aloha 1]

2 hours ago, clo said:

I don't hate cruising whatsoever. But there are plenty of businesses and industries that forever go out of business. That's what will be will be means.

And one day people will wake up and wonder what happened to all the businesses and places they used to frequent. What happened is they didn't care enough to help save them.

[clo]

1 hour ago, Aloha 1 said:

And one day people will wake up and wonder what happened to all the businesses and places they used to frequent. What happened is they didn't care enough to help save them.

Okay then, what do you think individuals should do to help the cruise lines? Seriously. Concrete things. I DO like the idea of writing congresspeople with true suggestions.

[Petoonya]

@TrulyBlonde

What a fix. You obviously care for this good woman and employee, but having an unvaccinated person indoors with you is yikes! My sister has the same predicament and leaves home when her housekeeper is there- goes shopping, bike riding, to the beach....not ideal but she can''t bear the thought of leaving this nice lady without a job. It's a tough decision.

 

Speaking of tough, you're a strong lady to walk through what you must have with your dad's passing. Hoping that you and your family are managing through a very difficult time.

 

 

[cruisemom42]

6 hours ago, Aloha 1 said:

And one day people will wake up and wonder what happened to all the businesses and places they used to frequent. What happened is they didn't care enough to help save them.

 

But this is the nature of the world. How many businesses have come and gone in the last hundred years due to changing demographics, competition, recession, or even disasters?  I imagine a fair number of businesses in London went under during the blitz -- and how many family farms and construction firms did not survive the Great Depression?

 

When disasters strike, even with a collective will we cannot protect everyone.

[Petoonya]

10 hours ago, ORV said:

What are the demographics/politics of the main groups not wanting to be vaccinated? Very interesting. 

My 53 year old neighbor, an anti-vaxxer, is fearful of the "nanobots" that might Injected in her system by the vax with the blessing of Bill Gates. She is fearful that they will jump from me onto her even if I stand 20 feet away. This is an educated woman, UC Berkeley PhD, who is ultra-conservative in a very liberal community.

[Host Jazzbeau]

2 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

My 53 year old neighbor, an anti-vaxxer, is fearful of the "nanobots" that might Injected in her system by the vax with the blessing of Bill Gates. She is fearful that they will jump from me onto her even if I stand 20 feet away. This is an educated woman, UC Berkeley PhD, who is ultra-conservative in a very liberal community.

As a Stanford grad, I'm biting my tongue...

[Petoonya]

2 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

As a Stanford grad, I'm biting my tongue...

Hee-hee!

 

[clo]

21 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

But this is the nature of the world. How many businesses have come and gone in the last hundred years due to changing demographics, competition, recession, or even disasters?  I imagine a fair number of businesses in London went under during the blitz -- and how many family farms and construction firms did not survive the Great Depression?

 

When disasters strike, even with a collective will we cannot protect everyone.

Oh, woman, if there's reincarnation, please allow me to come back with your wonderful "voice." Exactly what I wanted to say but couldn't wrap my tongue around it. Thanks as always.

[PhD-iva]

10 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

But this is the nature of the world. How many businesses have come and gone in the last hundred years due to changing demographics, competition, recession, or even disasters?  I imagine a fair number of businesses in London went under during the blitz -- and how many family farms and construction firms did not survive the Great Depression?

I would point out the difference here. These businesses and livelihoods are being “destroyed” (yes, that’s correct) by their government. Our friends and neighbors are losing their homes and their ability to provide for their families. In the beginning, when we didn’t understand the virus, lockdowns were understandable. Now, and in the US, lockdowns have become a way for government bureaucrats to maintain their grip on power, and to keep the proletariat dependent upon government transfers. (And, please don’t forget that most government employees did not lose income during lockdowns).
I’d say that the goal of epidemiologists has become eradication of the virus, an impossible goal. How long did it take to eradicate polio?
If you are concerned, please remain isolated in your home, and let others get back to work.