First Signs of fleet disposal?

[wwcruisers]

3 hours ago, FlorenceItaly said:

Thank you for this additional information.  I was convinced they were moving the Summit but, I will have to take a look at the Millie and re-evaluate.  I am glad the Charter Co. was smart enough to build the revolutionized ship into the contract.  You all pay premium prices and imo the last time I was on the Infinity the stateroom soft goods and furnishings were shabby.

 

Florence, our last Smooth Jazz Cruise (Feb '19) was on Infinity -- and yes, even then she was looking a little 'down at the heels'. The original plan was to have her retrofitted in time for all of ECP's 2021 Jazz Cruise charters -- which all got pushed back to Jan/Feb 2022, earlier this month. I'm kind of surprised that X hasn't taken full advantage of this 'down-time' to get the other two M-class ships revolutionized, ahead of schedule.

[FlorenceItaly]

29 minutes ago, wwcruisers said:

 

 I'm kind of surprised that X hasn't taken full advantage of this 'down-time' to get the other two M-class ships revolutionized, ahead of schedule.

It's all about the money!  I do not see it happening.

[Charles4515]

 
Florence, our last Smooth Jazz Cruise (Feb '19) was on Infinity -- and yes, even then she was looking a little 'down at the heels'. The original plan was to have her retrofitted in time for all of ECP's 2021 Jazz Cruise charters -- which all got pushed back to Jan/Feb 2022, earlier this month. I'm kind of surprised that X hasn't taken full advantage of this 'down-time' to get the other two M-class ships revolutionized, ahead of schedule.

They are short on money.


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[wwcruisers]

 

3 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

They are short on money.


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58 minutes ago, FlorenceItaly said:

It's all about the money!  I do not see it happening.

 

Sad to say it -- but that does make sense.

[C-Dragons]

1 hour ago, wwcruisers said:

 

Florence, our last Smooth Jazz Cruise (Feb '19) was on Infinity -- and yes, even then she was looking a little 'down at the heels'. The original plan was to have her retrofitted in time for all of ECP's 2021 Jazz Cruise charters -- which all got pushed back to Jan/Feb 2022, earlier this month. I'm kind of surprised that X hasn't taken full advantage of this 'down-time' to get the other two M-class ships revolutionized, ahead of schedule.

They couldn’t do the renovations while the shipyards were closed due to the virus. X had already secured the financing for the revolution renovations.

 

The St. Nazaire shipyard in France will soon be opening. When that happens Apex will get her finishing touches completed which were delayed because the shipyard was closed months ago due to Covid 19.

Edited June 14, 2020 by C-Dragons

[FlorenceItaly]

8 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

They couldn’t do the renovations while the shipyards were closed due to the virus. X had already secured the financing for the revolution renovations.

 

The St. Nazaire shipyard in France will soon be opening. When that happens Apex will get her finishing touches completed which were delayed because the shipyard was closed months ago due to Covid 19.

Celebrity has stated the renovations for Infinity and Constellation are on hold indefinitely.

[C-Dragons]

4 hours ago, FlorenceItaly said:

It's all about the money!  I do not see it happening.

 

3 hours ago, FlorenceItaly said:

Celebrity has stated the renovations for Infinity and Constellation are on hold indefinitely.

And I was stating the reason why X did not go forward with the renovations. It wasn’t because of money.

[Esprit]

9 hours ago, C-Dragons said:

They couldn’t do the renovations while the shipyards were closed due to the virus. X had already secured the financing for the revolution renovations.

 

The St. Nazaire shipyard in France will soon be opening. When that happens Apex will get her finishing touches completed which were delayed because the shipyard was closed months ago due to Covid 19.

The St Nazaire shipyard is open.

My SIL starting work there on MSC Virtuoso two weeks ago. There are strict social distance rules, so work is done in shift patterns to restrict the numbers working at any one time.

His shift today started at 6 am through to 2 pm. 

[german_navy]

On 6/13/2020 at 1:53 AM, dabear said:

 

The first ship listed for sale appears to be the Connie, which  is m class, has the same dimensions, gross weight and was built in 2002. 

 

I live in Hamburg so I just went ahead and called the agent. He was in his home office so he could not access all data. Therefore he could not name the ship`s names. I will call him again later this week to find out. But in general he confirmed that that these two ships are in the market. 

[Charles4515]

And I was stating the reason why X did not go forward with the renovations. It wasn’t because of money.

It is because of money. They need money to ride out the shutdown. They raised more cash last week. Their priority is cash for survival not renovating ships.


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[Redtravel]

It’s always about the MONEY.  Looked at the listings for ships for sale. There were over 80 cruise ships listed.  Amazingly, RCL including Celebrity have several ships on for sale. Celebrity M class ships and RCL Sovereign class are listed.  Also several Carnival and HAL ships.  

[Luckiestmanonearth]

2 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

It is because of money. They need money to ride out the shutdown. They raised more cash last week. Their priority is cash for survival not renovating ships.


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Exactly correct.  If people understood business , they would understand cash flow and paying bills when there is no income and that this would NOT be the time to spend money if one wanted to survive for the long haul

[Luckiestmanonearth]

41 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

It’s always about the MONEY.  Looked at the listings for ships for sale. There were over 80 cruise ships listed.  Amazingly, RCL including Celebrity have several ships on for sale. Celebrity M class ships and RCL Sovereign class are listed.  Also several Carnival and HAL ships.  

where would one go to find listings for cruise ships for sale ?

[Charles4515]

It’s always about the MONEY.  Looked at the listings for ships for sale. There were over 80 cruise ships listed.  Amazingly, RCL including Celebrity have several ships on for sale. Celebrity M class ships and RCL Sovereign class are listed.  Also several Carnival and HAL ships.  

 

Those ships have been listed for years. There have been new threads on cruise critic for years about the listings when someone googles and sees the listings. Those listings are meaningless. They are amusing to read but don’t take those listings seriously.

 

 

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[Charles4515]

where would one go to find listings for cruise ships for sale ?

Google cruise ships for sale. There are several sites. Usually run by a Captain....


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[TeeRick]

19 hours ago, Argo. said:

Here is one on the market:

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23088-rcgs-resolute-expedition-cruise-ship-to-be-sold-at-auction.html

Thank you.  Maybe I will put a bid on it!  A good strategy for me to cruise again!😃

[C-Dragons]

6 hours ago, Esprit said:

The St Nazaire shipyard is open.

My SIL starting work there on MSC Virtuoso two weeks ago. There are strict social distance rules, so work is done in shift patterns to restrict the numbers working at any one time.

His shift today started at 6 am through to 2 pm. 

Good to hear, thanks for the update.

Btw, how is Valentina doing? 

[Esprit]

1 minute ago, C-Dragons said:

Good to hear, thanks for the update.

Btw, how is Valentina doing? 

Hi C-Dragons

She's good thanks and relieved her husband is working again after a long lockdown in Madrid. No desire herself for getting back on a cruise ship though!

Stay safe eh

Peter

[C-Dragons]

5 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

. Their priority is cash for survival not renovating ships.

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I won't disagree with that.

And as I stated earlier, Imo, the M class ships may end up being sold off or transferred to a RCCL subsidiary.

[C-Dragons]

2 minutes ago, Esprit said:

Hi C-Dragons

She's good thanks and relieved her husband is working again after a long lockdown in Madrid. No desire herself for getting back on a cruise ship though!

Stay safe eh

Peter

Thanks, will do.

Same to you.

[Redtravel]

True it is that some M ships have been listed for sale many times.  Wonder if it is just seeing if there are any takers. The listed prices are high.  Of course, prices are negotiable. It’s like listing a house at an ridiculously high price. If somebody wants it, sell and make a profit.  That happens.  Selling cruise ships during a no sail order with no real end predicted is like throwing money into the ocean with no return.  For all we know, ships could be ordered to not sail again.  Until there is a vaccine, there are many previous cruisers that are not booking future cruises. There is a lot of speculation about the future. Only time will tell. Be patient and safe.

[Charles4515]

17 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

I won't disagree with that.

And as I stated earlier, Imo, the M class ships may end up being sold off or transferred to a RCCL subsidiary.

 

One thing to consider is that the Celebrity brand and fleet could be sold off as a package if things get bad enough for RCCL. 

[C-Dragons]

44 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

One thing to consider is that the Celebrity brand and fleet could be sold off as a package if things get bad enough for RCCL. 

“The Company’s obligations under the Loan Agreement are guaranteed by our wholly-owned subsidiaries, Celebrity Cruises Holdings Inc., Celebrity Cruises Inc. and certain of our wholly-owned vessel-owning subsidiaries, and will be secured by our trademarks and a pledge of 100% of the equity interests of certain of our wholly-owned vessel-owning subsidiaries. We will also use commercially reasonable efforts to deliver a mortgage in favor of the collateral agent over each of the vessels owned by such vessel-owning subsidiaries.“
 

Considering X's ships were put up as collateral for one of the loans, unfortunately that’s possible. If push comes to shove, If they wished the X brand to remain in business, personally, I think they would keep Edge and Apex and let the other ships go. Financing for Beyond has already been secured, so they could finish building her and add to the E class fleet. Jm2c.

Edited June 15, 2020 by C-Dragons

[ECCruise]

7 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

“The Company’s obligations under the Loan Agreement are guaranteed by our wholly-owned subsidiaries, Celebrity Cruises Holdings Inc., Celebrity Cruises Inc. and certain of our wholly-owned vessel-owning subsidiaries, and will be secured by our trademarks and a pledge of 100% of the equity interests of certain of our wholly-owned vessel-owning subsidiaries. We will also use commercially reasonable efforts to deliver a mortgage in favor of the collateral agent over each of the vessels owned by such vessel-owning subsidiaries.“
 

Considering X's ships were put up as collateral for one of the loans, unfortunately that’s possible. If push comes to shove, If they wished the X brand to remain in business, personally, I think they would keep Edge and Apex and let the other ships go. Financing for Beyond has already been secured, so they could finish building her and add to the E class fleet. Jm2c.

That would mean our Celebrity sailing would end at 30, unfortunately.

No interest in E class at all.  

[D C]

1 hour ago, C-Dragons said:

“The Company’s obligations under the Loan Agreement are guaranteed by our wholly-owned subsidiaries, Celebrity Cruises Holdings Inc., Celebrity Cruises Inc. and certain of our wholly-owned vessel-owning subsidiaries, and will be secured by our trademarks and a pledge of 100% of the equity interests of certain of our wholly-owned vessel-owning subsidiaries. We will also use commercially reasonable efforts to deliver a mortgage in favor of the collateral agent over each of the vessels owned by such vessel-owning subsidiaries.“
 

Considering X's ships were put up as collateral for one of the loans, unfortunately that’s possible. If push comes to shove, If they wished the X brand to remain in business, personally, I think they would keep Edge and Apex and let the other ships go. Financing for Beyond has already been secured, so they could finish building her and add to the E class fleet. Jm2c.

 

If RCCL defaults on the loan, the bank gets X and RCL gets a major financial black eye and credit rating hit.  I can't imagine this being a desired route for RCL under any circumstances.

 

And only Edge class? ick