US cruising in early January (speculation)

[Biker19]

23 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

Its not a medical condition, it is a safety condition. It is already done with schools and other jobs. It is about to be done for the flu shot in many places this year as well. 

What database will be checked for the shot? The State Motor Vehicle database will likely not be allowed to be accessed and modified by a bunch of folks giving the shot and even less likely any doctor office giving the shot will allow any other database to link to its records.

[livingonthebeach]

Immunization / Vaccine registries / databases already exist in many States.  Wisconsin has a very good one.  It’s a question of who will be allowed to access it.  I believe schools go by the paperwork you present to them but that may change going forward. 

[jean87510]

22 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Immunization / Vaccine registries / databases already exist in many States.  Wisconsin has a very good one.  It’s a question of who will be allowed to access it.  I believe schools go by the paperwork you present to them but that may change going forward. 

School nurses are able to access state system to check for vaccinations. This is not new. This is a great system especially when you have parents who just do not send in vaccination records.  Or lost them, left them in another country...etc...  

[bigrednole]

46 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

What database will be checked for the shot? 

It would take no time to create a registry database. This is not rocket science. Anyone with any level of programming skill could develop it in the matter of hours. Name, SSN, State, State ID number, Doctor administering vaccine, date given. About a 6 field online form to complete. Less information required than a Chik Fil A drive through.

[livingonthebeach]

3 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

School nurses are able to access state system to check for vaccinations. This is not new. This is a great system especially when you have parents who just do not send in vaccination records.  Or lost them, left them in another country...etc...  

 

If New Jersey has that capability then more States should have it as well.  I'm not sure Florida has it yet -- they are developing a system here through the DOH (Department of Health) called SHOTS but not sure it is as developed as in other States but I'm sure we'll get there.  

[jean87510]

Just now, livingonthebeach said:

 

If New Jersey has that capability then more States should have it as well.  I'm not sure Florida has it yet -- they are developing a system here through the DOH (Department of Health) called SHOTS but not sure it is as developed as in other States but I'm sure we'll get there.  

I could be wrong but I think Florida does. I had to get shot records from Florida as the system only allows state searches not national. This was last year and I dont remember all the circumstances. It is a great way to check in a crunch. The actual vaccine records are also helpful!

[livingonthebeach]

7 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

I could be wrong but I think Florida does. I had to get shot records from Florida as the system only allows state searches not national. This was last year and I dont remember all the circumstances. It is a great way to check in a crunch. The actual vaccine records are also helpful!

 

Yes Florida has the database called SHOTS but it is not as refined or as well known by the public as in other States.  I'm confident we'll get there though.  You're right -- immunization records are on a State level not a national level for now. 

Edited September 7, 2020 by livingonthebeach

[Biker19]

28 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

It would take no time to create a registry database. Name, SSN, State, State ID number, Doctor administering vaccine, date given. About a 6 field online form to complete.

That was my point - existing databases where such information could be added are unlikely to work. You think it's difficult to get anti-vaxers on board with a vaccine, just wait till you ask someone to submit all that info into a no-mans land database.

[jean87510]

2 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

That was my point - existing databases where such information could be added are unlikely to work. You think it's difficult to get anti-vaxers on board with a vaccine, just wait till you ask someone to submit all that info into a no-mans land database.

When a vaccine is given at a doctor's office it is entered into the system. When a flu shot is given at a doctor's office, it is entered. I received my flu shot last year at Walgreens and asked my PCP to enter it into the system. Its already being done in some areas so it won't be that much of a stretch.

Regarding anti vaxxers, good luck with them on board. Their decision so I don't argue. I make sure my family is vaccinated.

[Milwaukee Eight]

3 hours ago, bigrednole said:

it will be as easy as scanning a driver's license or state issue ID to check against a database

We can’t require this to vote how would it work for a vaccine? 😇

 

M8

[Biker19]

11 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

When a vaccine is given at a doctor's office it is entered into the system. When a flu shot is given at a doctor's office, it is entered. I received my flu shot last year at Walgreens and asked my PCP to enter it into the system. Its already being done in some areas so it won't be that much of a stretch.

Entering it might be "easy", but RCI or some other outside entity getting access to that database may a bit harder - typically those records are protected by HIPAA in the US.

[Ocean Boy]

14 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

When a vaccine is given at a doctor's office it is entered into the system. When a flu shot is given at a doctor's office, it is entered. I received my flu shot last year at Walgreens and asked my PCP to enter it into the system. Its already being done in some areas so it won't be that much of a stretch.

Regarding anti vaxxers, good luck with them on board. Their decision so I don't argue. I make sure my family is vaccinated.

You go to Walgreens for the shot and then your doctor's office has to do the work to enter the info? Why didn't Walgreens do it? This reminds me of people who go to walk-ins in the middle of the day and then call me at 2 AM when the treatment isn't working and they are feeling worse.

[Ocean Boy]

4 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Entering it might be "easy", but RCI or some other outside entity getting access to that database may a bit harder - typically those records are protected by HIPAA in the US.

RI has a vaccine registery. I can't imagine the state giving access to some cruise line. Who gets access is pretty tightly controlled by the Dept. of Health.

[jean87510]

13 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

You go to Walgreens for the shot and then your doctor's office has to do the work to enter the info? Why didn't Walgreens do it? This reminds me of people who go to walk-ins in the middle of the day and then call me at 2 AM when the treatment isn't working and they are feeling worse.

I have no idea. I am able to check to see if it is and it wasn't entered so during my scheduled physical months later the doctor entered it. I had the paperwork with me as some places I go to I have to show proof I have the current flu vaccine (visits).  

Fyi - my nursing agency has a contract with Walgreens to give us flu vaccines. I would have loved to get it from my PCP but they would not give it without a physical and I needed the vaccine for work.  My nursing agency unfortunately does not give vaccines at their office.  I honestly have no idea why you inserted the rude comment about people doing walk-ins. No connection to my story.

Edited September 7, 2020 by jean87510

[bouhunter]

12 hours ago, bigrednole said:

 

 but they can quickly eliminate 75% of their freedom.

Welcome to the brave new world if it comes to that....... 😞

 

[ipeeinthepool]

26 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

That was my point - existing databases where such information could be added are unlikely to work. You think it's difficult to get anti-vaxers on board with a vaccine, just wait till you ask someone to submit all that info into a no-mans land database.

 

You know what I find amusing.  We expected industrial companies like General Motors, Ford and others to turn around their manufacturing capability and supply chain overnight and build ventilators, PPE, hand sanitizer, etc but we don't request some of these high-tech companies to develop apps and other software to solve these type of problems with the same speed.  I'm still waiting for the testing app locator promised early on to materialize.  Maybe we should ask some of the "low-tech" manufacturing companies to solve this database problem instead of relying on companies like Apple, Google or Amazon.

[Ocean Boy]

31 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

  I honestly have no idea why you inserted the rude comment about people doing walk-ins. No connection to my story.

It wasn't intended to be rude. Sorry if it came off that way. It is a bit of a peeve of mine when people get care, that we provide, somewhere else and then my staff, or I,  end up dealing with the uncompensated aftermath if those decisions. Since you work in a health care organization I suspect you understand.

[bigrednole]

1 hour ago, Biker19 said:

Entering it might be "easy", but RCI or some other outside entity getting access to that database may a bit harder - typically those records are protected by HIPAA in the US.

Getting it would be easy. CDC requirement for a cruise line to verify. Written consent (online signature) to allow RCI to verify. If it is a requirement to cruise, they can have access with your consent. Very simple as part of the cruise document process:

 

Form: In order to cruise, you are required to have a covid vaccine. Do you give RCI consent to verify your vaccination record?

Yes: You can cruise

No: Thanks for donating to the RCI debt relief fund.

[Milwaukee Eight]

19 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

It wasn't intended to be rude. Sorry if it came off that way. It is a bit of a peeve of mine when people get care, that we provide, somewhere else and then my staff, or I,  end up dealing with the uncompensated aftermath if those decisions. Since you work in a health care organization I suspect you understand.

I get it. Boss gets stuck with uncompensated work which is required to have privileges. Should be a Tax write off. 😇

Edited September 7, 2020 by Milwaukee Eight

[Ocean Boy]

17 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

Getting it would be easy. CDC requirement for a cruise line to verify. Written consent (online signature) to allow RCI to verify. If it is a requirement to cruise, they can have access with your consent. Very simple as part of the cruise document process:

 

Form: In order to cruise, you are required to have a covid vaccine. Do you give RCI consent to verify your vaccination record?

Yes: You can cruise

No: Thanks for donating to the RCI debt relief fund.

There is a huge difference between verifying information and getting access to a database.

 

Royal has how many ships carrying how many passengers each week? They are going to independently verify the vaccination records of each of those passengers with each of their physicians? As I stated previously,  I cannot fathom that the State of Rhode Island is going to grant access to countless businesses to our database. And even if Royal had access, they are going to access records each week for thousands of people from all around the world?

[bigrednole]

16 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

There is a huge difference between verifying information and getting access to a database.

 

Royal has how many ships carrying how many passengers each week? They are going to independently verify the vaccination records of each of those passengers with each of their physicians? As I stated previously,  I cannot fathom that the State of Rhode Island is going to grant access to countless businesses to our database. And even if Royal had access, they are going to access records each week for thousands of people from all around the world?

RCI may not have the option!!! If the CDC requires verification of immunization to cruise, guess what? You don't get to cruise. It is the same as checking your passport and ID. It is not rocket science. It would be a federal database that the DOCTOR"S OFFICE updates as you get the vaccine. All they need to do is query the database and it is simple. It would ALL be automated on RCI's side. 

 

Honestly, I have no clue how some people think this digital world works. It is not the Dewey Decimal System where you have to send a person to each doctor's office of a potential passenger, to see if the office will tell them. Even on an Oasis class ship, fully booked with 6,000+ passengers, would take about 3 minutes to run the verification report. All RCI has to do is place on your reservation a notice that you have not completed the necessary steps to sail. Setup email reminders that YOU have to get it done and not RCI.

Edited September 7, 2020 by bigrednole

[Ocean Boy]

27 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

RCI may not have the option!!! If the CDC requires verification of immunization to cruise, guess what? You don't get to cruise. It is the same as checking your passport and ID. It is not rocket science. It would be a federal database that the DOCTOR"S OFFICE updates as you get the vaccine. All they need to do is query the database and it is simple. It would ALL be automated on RCI's side. 

 

Honestly, I have no clue how some people think this digital world works. It is not the Dewey Decimal System where you have to send a person to each doctor's office of a potential passenger, to see if the office will tell them. Even on an Oasis class ship, fully booked with 6,000+ passengers, would take about 3 minutes to run the verification report. All RCI has to do is place on your reservation a notice that you have not completed the necessary steps to sail. Setup email reminders that YOU have to get it done and not RCI.

So I guess Royal will be sailing with only American citizens aboard. 

[not-enough-cruising]

5 hours ago, bigrednole said:

This is the difference between an uncontrollable mandate versus a requirement. For US Citizens, it easy to block access without proof of immunization and vaccination. Right now, it is only done at schools for kids. But many counties are requiring proof of flu vaccinations this Fall to be able to attend school. That will expand and the anti-vaxxers will scream. But, they can homeschool their kids anyway. As for everyone else, it will be as easy as scanning a driver's license or state issue ID to check against a database indicating you are vaccinated. It is not rocket science and a high school kids could program it in about an hour. Fines for establishments not verifying can be high enough to insure they do. 

Schools can’t mandate vaccines, that has been shot (pun intended) down in districts all over the country. 

Edited September 7, 2020 by not-enough-cruising

[Milwaukee Eight]

I can just see getting a chip inserted with the vaccine. The end to our Freedoms. 
 

M8

[Ocean Boy]

1 minute ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I can just see getting a chip inserted with the vaccine. The end to our Freedoms. 
 

M8

But look at the bright side. When we are old an senile and wander off and get lost, all they will have to do is scan your chip to get you back to the correct nursing home just like we do with our dogs now.