US cruising in early January (speculation)

[compman9]

6 hours ago, MommaBear55 said:

Having been in the medical field for 40 years and seeing both the Lyme vaccine and earlier Rota virus vaccine pulled off the market for deleterious side effects even after phase 3 trials were concluded, I'll wait for a while before getting a vaccine for Covid 19. Yes, I'm going stir crazy and have cancelled or changed 14 weeks of vacation through the end of 2020, and I miss seeing my grandchildren with a deep heartache, but I'm not willing to be a guinea pig, I'll let others do the experimentation for me. 

 

I don't doubt your expertise, but we are actually in the guinea pig phase now, in the UK, and I am pretty sure in the US and Germany, plus probably China

 

We have thousands of volunteers all taking a cocktail of different drugs and suppressants. What we are waiting for are the most successful results, which are taking months to learn their effectiveness

 

Something people have to remember, is scientists are not just looking for a vaccine - They are looking at treatment and suppressant drugs

 

The medical profession knows a lot more now than it did in March. back then, people were put on ventilators too quickly, people were left to lie on their backs. Lesson have been learned and treatment across the board has improved immeasurably. Lives are being saved with additional knowledge

 

We may or may not have a vaccine some time soon, but lessons are being learned daily, treatments are being developed quickly, and all of this knowledge will be shared internationally because we live in a global economy - The very thought that the US will just treat its own citizens and ignore their businesses that rely on international trade, is frankly preposterous

 

It is also bizarre to think you may be experimented on. We haven't got a few students mixing chemicals in some test-tubes. We have the best virologists in the world all working to find a solution

[Milwaukee Eight]

9 hours ago, chipmaster said:

I traveled weekly and was spending more than 1.5K / week, been home for 150 + days and at 95% efficiency.  Don't ever see myself working and traveling like I used to.

Similar experience after 9/11. With tighter screening and changes, travel came back. Technology today, allows for less person to person meetings. Once the bean counters realize the savings of video conference meetings, reduced travel will become the norm. 
 

M8

[Ocean Boy]

4 hours ago, compman9 said:

 

 

We have thousands of volunteers all taking a cocktail of different drugs and suppressants. What we are waiting for are the most successful results, which are taking months to learn their effectiveness

 

Effectiveness and safety are two very different things. There are plenty of lawyers making very good livings off of "safe" drugs that went through all the proper steps to gain approval only to have their dark side become apparent much later.

[Iamcruzin]

10 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

The business travel living on corporate expense is NOT coming back.  As the last 6 months have shown business have survivied with essentially no travel.    CFO are looking at that as well as how WFH is doing so well and the whole big city as well as face time travel will never be the same.

 

Airlines and hotels will need to adjust to a new norm.  Sure some travel will come back.   

 

I traveled weekly and was spending more than 1.5K / week, been home for 150 + days and at 95% efficiency.  Don't ever see myself working and traveling like I used to.

 

It's amazing what people have been doing remotely.  They have been broadcasting TV shows from home, Dr Visits, Zoom meetings, and teaching classes. We have adapted so quickly, I agree business travel as well as office real estate will take a permanent hit.

[mek]

1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

Effectiveness and safety are two very different things. There are plenty of lawyers making very good livings off of "safe" drugs that went through all the proper steps to gain approval only to have their dark side become apparent much later.

I agree with your statement - there are problems with some drugs - even ones that have been tested for years and years ; however, vaccines don't generally fall into that category.  I personally know someone who had a serious reaction to a flu shot and was partially paralyzed.  She got a large settlement from the drug company, but that is so very rare.

Because of her, she is very involved in the anti vaxxer movement I have a another friend who is an anti vaxxer because of her.

Not me. As previously stated, I will take the vaccine as soon as possible.

Edited September 4, 2020 by mek

[bobmacliberty]

I agree that business travel will change.  Many things can be done remotely as well as, or close to as well as, if they were done in person.  The part that gets lost though is social interaction/face-to-face relationships.  Maybe I'm just old, but I think that's still valuable.  Not needed all the time, but definitely needed occasionally.  Customers especially will still want suppliers to come to them (unless they somehow get a cut of the supplier's savings from not traveling).

[Ocean Boy]

6 minutes ago, mek said:

As previously stated, I will take the vaccine as soon as possible.

As previously stated, that is your prerogative. And for the record, I am far from an anti vaxxer.

[John&LaLa]

24 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

As previously stated, that is your prerogative. And for the record, I am far from an anti vaxxer.

 

Just curious, how do the modify flu vaccine every year?

[dani negreanu]

1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

There are plenty of lawyers making very good livings off of "safe" drugs that went through all the proper steps to gain approval only to have their dark side become apparent much later.

 

Vioxx comes to mind...although for me it did wonders.

[compman9]

2 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

Effectiveness and safety are two very different things. There are plenty of lawyers making very good livings off of "safe" drugs that went through all the proper steps to gain approval only to have their dark side become apparent much later.

 

That sounds a little tin-foil-hat, if you don't mind me saying

 

Although that is perhaps an American thing. I can assure you that in the UK, the trials, experiments and progress is all being monitored daily by our government with international (including American) cooperation

Edited September 4, 2020 by compman9
spelling

[John&LaLa]

29 minutes ago, dani negreanu said:

 

Vioxx comes to mind...although for me it did wonders.

 

I see Zantac lawsuit ads everyday

Edited September 4, 2020 by John&LaLa

[John&LaLa]

8 minutes ago, compman9 said:

 

That sounds a little tin-foil-hate, if you don't mind me saying

 

Although that is perhaps an American thing. I can assure you that in the UK, the trials, experiments and progress is all being monitored daily by our government with international (including American) cooperation

 

There are upwards of 60 current class action lawsuits against 'safe' drugs in the US.

 

I can't believe there are none in the UK

[Iamcruzin]

7 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

I see Zantac lawsuit ads everyday

How many used Johnson and Johnson’s baby powder? That case has gone from a commercial to an infomercial. 

[logan25]

10 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

There are upwards of 60 current class action lawsuits against 'safe' drugs in the US.

 

I can't believe there are none in the UK

 

Different consumer laws apply.

[John&LaLa]

31 minutes ago, logan25 said:

 

Different consumer laws apply.

 

Got it, but Zantac was pulled from the shelves in UK

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, bobmacliberty said:

I agree that business travel will change.  Many things can be done remotely as well as, or close to as well as, if they were done in person.  The part that gets lost though is social interaction/face-to-face relationships.  Maybe I'm just old, but I think that's still valuable.  Not needed all the time, but definitely needed occasionally.  Customers especially will still want suppliers to come to them (unless they somehow get a cut of the supplier's savings from not traveling).

Entertaining customers was a norm when I was still working in IT. That has changed over the years as well. Liberal expense reports were starting to get trimmed when I retired. 

[Ocean Boy]

2 hours ago, compman9 said:

 

That sounds a little tin-foil-hat, if you don't mind me saying

 

I don't mind you saying because I don't even know what it means.

[bobmacliberty]

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Entertaining customers was a norm when I was still working in IT. That has changed over the years as well. Liberal expense reports were starting to get trimmed when I retired. 

 

Agreed that entertaining customers will be greatly reduced.  That's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about the attitude of me having a problem with your system that is impacting my business and wanting you standing next to me working to get it fixed.  Many little problems can certainly be addressed remotely but for bigger problems, I believe that many customers will still want a warm body in their shop.

[Ocean Boy]

3 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Just curious, how do the modify flu vaccine every year?

To keep this simple.... The basic vaccine "structure"  and manufacturing process is the same every year. The different flu virus strains are characterized by their surface protein structure. These function as antigens. Antigens trigger responses from immune systems to greater or lesser degrees depending on many factors. The ones that are used in the vaccine are hemagglutinin and neuraminidase. So you take inactivated (killed) or attenuated (modified live) viron particles of the strain of flu that they think is going to be circulated around an put them into the vaccine. Injecting these into the body hopefully induces an immune response to develop antibodies that will neutralize matching flu virus (antigen) that attempts to make a home for itself inside of your body.

 

I hope that made sense and coming from a non-immunologist.

[SilkySal]

32 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I don't mind you saying because I don't even know what it means.

Not sure but I take it to mean those people who wear aluminum foil/tin foil on their heads to ward off aliens or the government "listening in" on them??? I do wish our neighbors would quit referring to some things as an "American thing" though. I don't like being lumped into a group like that but, oh well, it is what it is.

[Ocean Boy]

1 minute ago, SilkySal said:

Not sure but I take it to mean those people who wear aluminum foil/tin foil on their heads to ward off aliens or the government "listening in" on them??? I do wish our neighbors would quit referring to some things as an "American thing" though. I don't like being lumped into a group like that but, oh well, it is what it is.

I think those people had better be very careful going outside during lightning storms.😁

[TheMastodon]

40 minutes ago, SilkySal said:

Not sure but I take it to mean those people who wear aluminum foil/tin foil on their heads to ward off aliens or the government "listening in" on them??? I do wish our neighbors would quit referring to some things as an "American thing" though. I don't like being lumped into a group like that but, oh well, it is what it is.

Likewise.

 

 

[TheMastodon]

10 hours ago, compman9 said:

 

I don't doubt your expertise, but we are actually in the guinea pig phase now, in the UK, and I am pretty sure in the US and Germany, plus probably China

 

We have thousands of volunteers all taking a cocktail of different drugs and suppressants. What we are waiting for are the most successful results, which are taking months to learn their effectiveness

 

Something people have to remember, is scientists are not just looking for a vaccine - They are looking at treatment and suppressant drugs

 

The medical profession knows a lot more now than it did in March. back then, people were put on ventilators too quickly, people were left to lie on their backs. Lesson have been learned and treatment across the board has improved immeasurably. Lives are being saved with additional knowledge

 

We may or may not have a vaccine some time soon, but lessons are being learned daily, treatments are being developed quickly, and all of this knowledge will be shared internationally because we live in a global economy - The very thought that the US will just treat its own citizens and ignore their businesses that rely on international trade, is frankly preposterous

 

It is also bizarre to think you may be experimented on. We haven't got a few students mixing chemicals in some test-tubes. We have the best virologists in the world all working to find a solution

Thank you.

 

Literally, the brightest people in the WORLD are working on this.  There will be diff methods to address it, but they all will work to reduce symptoms etc etc.  I have a great deal of respect for those working around the clock to end this madness.  
 

People seem to forget that virologists didn’t get caught w/ their pants down on this thing.  They have an insurmountable amount of knowledge/research on the coronavirus family of virus.  Sure this one is obviously different - but they had a pretty good idea from the get go how to fight it - that’s why there are a few vax showing positive results already in similar timeframes.  This is not something new like HIV was circa 1983 - Fauci himself has admitted this.

 

Research suggests Covid19 doesn’t mutate like the “flu” but that is yet to be seen - meaning potentially would need a yearly Covid19 vax like the flu for better protection against symptoms.  
 

Again, this all points to learning to live with Covid19 - not staying locked up rest of your life.

[chipmaster]

3 minutes ago, TheMastodon said:

Thank you.

 

Literally, the brightest people in the WORLD are working on this.  There will be diff methods to address it, but they all will work to reduce symptoms etc etc.  I have a great deal of respect for those working around the clock to end this madness.  
 

People seem to forget that virologists didn’t get caught w/ their pants down on this thing.  They have an insurmountable amount of knowledge/research on the coronavirus family of virus.  Sure this one is obviously different - but they had a pretty good idea from the get go how to fight it - that’s why there are a few vax showing positive results already in similar timeframes.  This is not something new like HIV was circa 1983 - Fauci himself has admitted this.

 

Research suggests Covid19 doesn’t mutate like the “flu” but that is yet to be seen - meaning potentially would need a yearly Covid19 vax like the flu for better protection against symptoms.  
 

Again, this all points to learning to live with Covid19 - not staying locked up rest of your life.

 

Remember if you look at the Flu virus any given year you might come to the conclusion no mutation to.....

 

The SARs-CoV-2 has already mutated and by careful examination the source of the infection can often be traced.  The strains on the west coast and east cost of US were different till the larger mix within the US.

 

Early studies are suggesting it isn't mutating as fast, till it does.   You can't cheat or deny evolutionary biology.    

 

 

[TheMastodon]

15 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

Remember if you look at the Flu virus any given year you might come to the conclusion no mutation to.....

 

The SARs-CoV-2 has already mutated and by careful examination the source of the infection can often be traced.  The strains on the west coast and east cost of US were different till the larger mix within the US.

 

Early studies are suggesting it isn't mutating as fast, till it does.   You can't cheat or deny evolutionary biology.    

 

 

 

Absolutely Chip - I also have read about this.  

I am fully aware it could mutate but cautiously optimistic it doesn’t mutate into something more sinister.  My point was this could be a yearly vax type deal and people should be open to the idea of a yearly vaccination for Rona19.