Cruise line execs call for return to service in United States

[firefly333]

11 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

 Pandemic management is not rocket science.  The rules should be able to be written on the back of a napkin.   Sure management and installation  of those rules can be difficult but the rules are fairly easy to design  

I just heard on tv that you stand a 2 to 1 chance of testing positive if you ate at a restaurant. Something like that. Double the amount of positives had eaten in a restaurant previous 14 days as those who didnt.

 

Now bars are opening again.

 

Since you have it all figured out, should people all be stopped from eating out, or doesnt where in usa matter where you live?

 

More than half of Americans say they wouldnt get the vaccine, faucci says that means we cant stamp it out and will be living with it well into 2021.

 

I dont think it's as easy as dictating to americans how and what they have to do. Easy yea ok. 

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I just heard on tv that you stand a 2 to 1 chance of testing positive if you ate at a restaurant. Something like that. Double the amount of positives had eaten in a restaurant previous 14 days as those who didnt.

 

Now bars are opening again.

 

Since you have it all figured out, should people all be stopped from eating out, or doesnt where in usa matter where you live?

 

More than half of Americans say they wouldnt get the vaccine, faucci says that means we cant stamp it out and will be living with it well into 2021.

 

I dont think it's as easy as dictating to americans how and what they have to do. Easy yea ok. 

I do believe I said management can be difficult but not protocols.   Me, I would throw any violators off of the ship as was done recently

Edited September 12, 2020 by Mary229

[firefly333]

1 minute ago, Mary229 said:

I do believe I said management can be difficult but not protocols.   

So what protocols are these that are easy to establish. I'm confused what you mean.

[Mary229]

Just now, firefly333 said:

So what protocols are these that are easy to establish. I'm confused what you mean.

Protocols are simply a list of procedures.  Things like temperature checks, testing (what kind of test).   Actually testing is an issue.  So many of the tests are unreliable or require a true professional to administer.  So someone with authority should designate which test.    Those are protocols.  
Now what happens in port is a local issue 

[Mary229]

If you are interested here is a link to the European CDC’s guidelines 

 

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/COVID-19-cruise-ship-guidance

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

2 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Tom or is it Cheryl, have you looked at the new suite class with perks on mardi gras?  Seems like your kind of thing.

 

We do have a corner Excel Suite booked for March. I'd like to go, but will have to reevaluate prior to final payment. Once I'm confident that there's a safe and effective vaccine, I'll be in line for it! After that, life can slowly return to normal. I've only been to one restaurant since March of this year - and they were definitely playing it safe there. I was curious about the Presidential Suite, but they were both long gone when I booked (so many months ago)... not even sure what they're getting for those!

 

Tom

[firefly333]

5 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

We do have a corner Excel Suite booked for March. I'd like to go, but will have to reevaluate prior to final payment. Once I'm confident that there's a safe and effective vaccine, I'll be in line for it! After that, life can slowly return to normal. I've only been to one restaurant since March of this year - and they were definitely playing it safe there. I was curious about the Presidential Suite, but they were both long gone when I booked (so many months ago)... not even sure what they're getting for those!

 

Tom

Well I hope you go and let us know.

 

The first vaccine to come out takes 2 doses 2 to 3 weeks between. I got a b2b feb 20 and feb 28 rcl and feel I'll be lucky to get it in if it's out in time. Takes another 2 or 3 weeks to be effective. I'm in dallas where it's being tested so feel like I will have good chance to get it here early on.

 

Well I hope you get to go. But agree, I'd rather have the vaccine than not to board a cruise.

Edited September 12, 2020 by firefly333

[jimbo5544]

12 hours ago, beerman2 said:

Chengkp75 had said long ago it was his feeling the cruise lines were trying to wait out the CDC. Maybe now they realized that tactic wasn't working. 

 

He has some past knowledge having worked for NCL as a Chief Engineer, before getting into private sector of shipping.

I don’t care who takes the credit, or who wins or loses.  It is the end result that interests me.  

[beerman2]

29 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I don’t care who takes the credit, or who wins or loses.  It is the end result that interests me.  

And that's all well and good, but the poster was directly "pointing fingers" which isn't correct. It's an opinion not fact.

Heck we all want things back to as normal as possible, on the Grand Scale of things cruise lines are only a part of what the CDC needs to watch over. 

 

Do they have too much power/control maybe/probably , don't many think government has too much say?

 

When cruise lines show the CDC a plan (Del Rio-NCL) just said they would have a plan in a week to 10 days. That seems to say they were waiting not being proactive.

 

DW and I are going crazy not having been on vacation in over a year ( usually do 2-3).

She isn't ready to cruise when they first get open so we are going completely out of our comfort zone. Doing the snowbird thing in March and spending a month down south.

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, beerman2 said:

And that's all well and good, but the poster was directly "pointing fingers" which isn't correct. It's an opinion not fact.

Heck we all want things back to as normal as possible, on the Grand Scale of things cruise lines are only a part of what the CDC needs to watch over. 

 

Do they have too much power/control maybe/probably , don't many think government has too much say?

 

When cruise lines show the CDC a plan (Del Rio-NCL) just said they would have a plan in a week to 10 days. That seems to say they were waiting not being proactive.

 

DW and I are going crazy not having been on vacation in over a year ( usually do 2-3).

She isn't ready to cruise when they first get open so we are going completely out of our comfort zone. Doing the snowbird thing in March and spending a month down south.

It is a leap to go on a cruise.  I am ready now, the wife is close but not there yet.  I do not disagree with you post, just stating my view.  I have had more than a couple discussions on this topic and I see both sides.  There is part of me that thinks they want to wait to see what flies before submitting a plan.  Submitting one early can have repercussions with changes down the road as well.  I have always thought that CLIA will submit a plan for all members and they will customize as needed . 

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

It is a leap to go on a cruise.  I am ready now, the wife is close but not there yet.  I do not disagree with you post, just stating my view.  I have had more than a couple discussions on this topic and I see both sides.  There is part of me that thinks they want to wait to see what flies before submitting a plan.  Submitting one early can have repercussions with changes down the road as well.  I have always thought that CLIA will submit a plan for all members and they will customize as needed . 

There was another thread where one of those video bloggers said we will not hear from Carnival until the end of Sept or past as they are waiting for the panel results.

 

I dont expect to hear from carnival regarding new protocols for another couple of weeks per what they said.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by firefly333

[sgiflips]

I really hope cruising gets back in November for not only us cruisers but for all the workers that need these jobs.  Think about the towns that thrive on cruise passengers the night before the cruise...hotels and restaurants.  

I do have a cruise booked end of Nov. I do want to know the protocol that if our cruise does have an outbreak that we can get off on debarkation day. That is my concern.  I will need to get back home and go to work. 

I have been on 25 cruises.  I have come home with the flu twice.  And like a head cold a few times.  Cruises are known for people to get sick once home.  But I go with that risk...I DON'T CARE!  I WANT TO CRUISE!  We have got to learn to live with this virus just like we have the flu.  Time to cruise and time to live life without Covid 19 fear.  

[firefly333]

9 minutes ago, sgiflips said:

I really hope cruising gets back in November for not only us cruisers but for all the workers that need these jobs.  Think about the towns that thrive on cruise passengers the night before the cruise...hotels and restaurants.  

I do have a cruise booked end of Nov. I do want to know the protocol that if our cruise does have an outbreak that we can get off on debarkation day. That is my concern.  I will need to get back home and go to work. 

I have been on 25 cruises.  I have come home with the flu twice.  And like a head cold a few times.  Cruises are known for people to get sick once home.  But I go with that risk...I DON'T CARE!  I WANT TO CRUISE!  We have got to learn to live with this virus just like we have the flu.  Time to cruise and time to live life without Covid 19 fear.  

Another site some just commented that she has talked to a couple of staffers and workers are to report in by sept 15. I do see things moving toward reopening... I just think you will have to wait on protocols.

 

There is a thread on rcl board posted by Laura the cc head, about modifications to rcl app. I didnt go thru it all, I'm tech challenged. I think besides for ordering it is also supposed to open your cabin door for touch less entry. Many are saying just give me my card. Lol.

 

I hardly know what blue tooth is and gave up on explanations. I'll deal with it once onboard and someone can show me. 

 

Carnival has said they arent coming out with protocols until at least end of September so sounds like no choice but to wait. 

[2wheelin]

Someone commented earlier about walking from their MDR table without replacing their mask being a grave infraction but I am not going back through all the posts to find it. This happens when rules are dumbed down so no one has to think. Simply walking through the dining room is not going to infect anyone. No exposure time. Same with passing in the hallways.

 

Another problem I see with testing protocols is that one can test positive for several weeks but is only infectious for about a week at onset. People are allowed to return to work 10 days after onset of symptoms unless a fever persists.

[jimbo5544]

4 hours ago, firefly333 said:

There was another thread where one of those video bloggers said we will not hear from Carnival until the end of Sept or past as they are waiting for the panel results.

 

I dont expect to hear from carnival regarding new protocols for another couple of weeks per what they said.

 

 

Makes sense, why the rush they are not going to rescind.

[BlerkOne]

9 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

Someone commented earlier about walking from their MDR table without replacing their mask being a grave infraction but I am not going back through all the posts to find it. This happens when rules are dumbed down so no one has to think. Simply walking through the dining room is not going to infect anyone. No exposure time. Same with passing in the hallways.

 

Another problem I see with testing protocols is that one can test positive for several weeks but is only infectious for about a week at onset. People are allowed to return to work 10 days after onset of symptoms unless a fever persists.

 

One cough or sneeze is all it takes. One doesn't have to have symptoms to spread the virus. IMO, if it saves a life, it is worth a minor inconvenience.

[sanger727]

On 9/12/2020 at 5:17 PM, firefly333 said:

I just heard on tv that you stand a 2 to 1 chance of testing positive if you ate at a restaurant. Something like that. Double the amount of positives had eaten in a restaurant previous 14 days as those who didnt.

 

Now bars are opening again.

 

Since you have it all figured out, should people all be stopped from eating out, or doesnt where in usa matter where you live?

 

No, that’s not what they said. They said that of the people who tested positive, they were twice as likely to have eaten in a restaurant in the last two weeks. I’m not good enough at statistics to put the actual percentages on that. But most restaurant eaters will not catch Covid. 
 

but this is correlation, which is very different than causation. What if I told you that you were twice as likely to get sunburned this year if you had eaten ice cream in the last two weeks. Obviously you know that ice cream doesn’t cause sunburn, they are just both correlated to it being hot and sunny out. 
 

I think that the causation here is taking more risks with going out in public and social distancing, just so happens that the people who take more risks are more likely to eat out in a restaurant. You could probably find the same trend for people going to work in person vs working at home. I don’t think that this is anywhere near strong enough evidence to suggest that restaurants are a primary driver of people catching COVID.

 

now, if they discovered through contact tracing that 50% of the people had caught Covid at a restaurant. That would be causal and need to be considered. But what if they did contact tracing and 10% caught it from their kids who played sports, 10% caught it at work, 10% caught it at a house party, 10% caught it from visiting a sick relative, etc. 

Edited September 14, 2020 by sanger727

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

No, that’s not what they said. They said that of the people who tested positive, they were twice as likely to have eaten in a restaurant in the last two weeks. I’m not good enough at statistics to put the actual percentages on that. But most restaurant eaters will not catch Covid. 
 

but this is correlation, which is very different than causation. What if I told you that you were twice as likely to get sunburned this year if you had eaten ice cream in the last two weeks. Obviously you know that ice cream doesn’t cause sunburn, they are just both correlated to it being hot and sunny out. 
 

I think that the causation here is taking more risks with going out in public and social distancing, just so happens that the people who take more risks are more likely to eat out in a restaurant. You could probably find the same trend for people going to work in person vs working at home. I don’t think that this is anywhere near strong enough evidence to suggest that restaurants are a primary driver of people catching COVID.

 

now, if they discovered through contact tracing that 50% of the people had caught Covid at a restaurant. That would be causal and need to be considered. But what if they did contact tracing and 10% caught it from their kids who played sports, 10% caught it at work, 10% caught it at a house party, 10% caught it from visiting a sick relative, etc. 

I agree in the quantum leaps some of these analysis take.  Is the most important thing to get out of it that they went to restaurants or their total life style is what caused it.  You have to take all of these semi factual analysis with a couple of pounds of salt.

[firefly333]

2 hours ago, sanger727 said:

No, that’s not what they said. They said that of the people who tested positive, they were twice as likely to have eaten in a restaurant in the last two weeks. I’m not good enough at statistics to put the actual percentages on that. But most restaurant eaters will not catch Covid. 
 

but this is correlation, which is very different than causation. What if I told you that you were twice as likely to get sunburned this year if you had eaten ice cream in the last two weeks. Obviously you know that ice cream doesn’t cause sunburn, they are just both correlated to it being hot and sunny out. 
 

I think that the causation here is taking more risks with going out in public and social distancing, just so happens that the people who take more risks are more likely to eat out in a restaurant. You could probably find the same trend for people going to work in person vs working at home. I don’t think that this is anywhere near strong enough evidence to suggest that restaurants are a primary driver of people catching COVID.

 

now, if they discovered through contact tracing that 50% of the people had caught Covid at a restaurant. That would be causal and need to be considered. But what if they did contact tracing and 10% caught it from their kids who played sports, 10% caught it at work, 10% caught it at a house party, 10% caught it from visiting a sick relative, etc. 

Actually I was thinking along the same lines ... and mentioned bars opening as I think will increase odds of getting it. 

 

Nevertheless I dont care that much about eating in restaurants that I personally will eat in one, but I'm turning 70 soon and dont have vaccine yet, though I plan on it due to my age.

 

It's a matter of picking your poison/risky behaviour. I plan on cruising. 

[glrounds]

3 hours ago, sanger727 said:

No, that’s not what they said. They said that of the people who tested positive, they were twice as likely to have eaten in a restaurant in the last two weeks. I’m not good enough at statistics to put the actual percentages on that. But most restaurant eaters will not catch Covid. 
 

but this is correlation, which is very different than causation. What if I told you that you were twice as likely to get sunburned this year if you had eaten ice cream in the last two weeks. Obviously you know that ice cream doesn’t cause sunburn, they are just both correlated to it being hot and sunny out. 
 

I think that the causation here is taking more risks with going out in public and social distancing, just so happens that the people who take more risks are more likely to eat out in a restaurant. You could probably find the same trend for people going to work in person vs working at home. I don’t think that this is anywhere near strong enough evidence to suggest that restaurants are a primary driver of people catching COVID.

 

now, if they discovered through contact tracing that 50% of the people had caught Covid at a restaurant. That would be causal and need to be considered. But what if they did contact tracing and 10% caught it from their kids who played sports, 10% caught it at work, 10% caught it at a house party, 10% caught it from visiting a sick relative, etc. 

 

Excellent metaphor explaining the difference between CAUSATION and CORRELATION. I wish people would use this logic in all their thinking.

Edited September 14, 2020 by glrounds

[2wheelin]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

I agree in the quantum leaps some of these analysis take.  Is the most important thing to get out of it that they went to restaurants or their total life style is what caused it.  You have to take all of these semi factual analysis with a couple of pounds of salt.

Quantum leaps X 10 in some cases. How many cases are they now attributing to Sturgis? In the first two weeks it was hundreds of thousands—even more than the total attendance. According to news reports, if a person from county Y in state Z attended, or even just drove through, Sturgis in Aug then new cases in that county were “caused” by a biker. Whereas even if a biker became positive there was no evidence in most cases of contact at the rally. Lots of gas station stops could just as well be the contact.

[ProgRockCruiser]

1 hour ago, glrounds said:

I wish people would use this logic in all their thinking.

I wish people would use even a hint of logic in any of their thinking.

 

I swear it is now to the point where if you are a careful logical thinker, then you are an outcast, for all truth really comes from the TV and Internet! 

 

Way too much cod philosophy.

[2wheelin]

12 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

One cough or sneeze is all it takes. One doesn't have to have symptoms to spread the virus. IMO, if it saves a life, it is worth a minor inconvenience.

“Simply walking through the dining room is not going to infect anyone. No exposure time. Same with passing in the hallways” is what I said.

Anyone coughing or sneezing should be wearing a mask—I never said they shouldn’t—better yet, they should not be in the MDR or out of their room. Of course one does not have to have symptoms to spread the virus but the exposure time requirement still applies and is likely extended.

[ProgRockCruiser]

1 minute ago, 2wheelin said:

“Simply walking through the dining room is not going to infect anyone. No exposure time. Same with passing in the hallways” is what I said.

Anyone coughing or sneezing should be wearing a mask—I never said they shouldn’t—better yet, they should not be in the MDR or out of their room. Of course one does not have to have symptoms to spread the virus but the exposure time requirement still applies and is likely extended.

I think the point is that one does not always plan sneezes or coughs.  One unfortunate and unplanned sneeze might be all that is needed.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

29 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

I think the point is that one does not always plan sneezes or coughs.  One unfortunate and unplanned sneeze might be all that is needed.

 

Normal conversation, normal breathing, laughing -- all can be vectors as well. Thusly, we should ban comedy clubs onboard!  😉

 

Tom