When Will The CDC Publish Their New Guidelines?

[Raxter54]

With CLIA sending suggestions to the CDC and the 2 Florida Senators pressing them, I'm thinking (hoping?) that the CDC might publish the new guidelines by the end of this week. Anyone else have a guess?

[ColeThornton]

That's possible but no one here knows.  It's not worth speculating over at this point in time.  

[d9704011]

4 minutes ago, Raxter54 said:

With CLIA sending suggestions to the CDC and the 2 Florida Senators pressing them, I'm thinking (hoping?) that the CDC might publish the new guidelines by the end of this week. Anyone else have a guess?

I believe the senators made suggestions to circumvent the CDC from the cruise resumption decision process and the recommandations/suggestions you’re referring to were made to cruise lines, not the CDC.

[Raxter54]

8 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

I believe the senators made suggestions to circumvent the CDC from the cruise resumption decision process and the recommandations/suggestions you’re referring to were made to cruise lines, not the CDC.

https://www.travelmarketreport.com/articles/CLIA-Submits-Plan-for-Gradual-Resumption-of-US-Cruises-to-CDC

 

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/senators-introduce-bill-to-safely-bring-back-cruising-in-us.html

 

And the bill doesn't exclude the CDC, it creates a panel with members from differnet government agencies, including the Department of Health and Human Services, which I believe the CDC comes under. Guess you could say they are trying to go over the CDC's head and go straight to their boss..

Edited September 28, 2020 by Raxter54

[d9704011]

9 minutes ago, Raxter54 said:

https://www.travelmarketreport.com/articles/CLIA-Submits-Plan-for-Gradual-Resumption-of-US-Cruises-to-CDC

 

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/senators-introduce-bill-to-safely-bring-back-cruising-in-us.html

 

And the bill doesn't exclude the CDC, it creates a panel with members from differnet government agencies, including the Department of Health and Human Services, which I believe the CDC comes under. Guess you could say they are trying to go over the CDC's head and go straight to their boss..

Alright, I stand corrected.

[poz222]

Port employees at port of Miami terminal D were having a rally to Save our Salaries. It was aimed at the upcoming CDC decision.

[ray98]

The CDC should take a step back.....they have been ineffective and certainly have placed a target on the cruise industry.

[Moviela]

People around the world are the same. Everyone will put off making a decision until there is a deadline. While the CDC order "expires" Wednesday there are no ships in a US port bunkering to leave on Thursday. So there is no pressure to act quickly this week. The CLIA (industry association) has a suspension that runs to October 31st. The CDC also has a technical requirement that any no sail order has to be published in the Federal Register to give legal notice to ship owners. That can take a little time.

 

I think folks should plan on packing for November voyages. Batter up! Let's go.

[PhillyFan33579]

1 hour ago, Raxter54 said:

With CLIA sending suggestions to the CDC and the 2 Florida Senators pressing them, I'm thinking (hoping?) that the CDC might publish the new guidelines by the end of this week. Anyone else have a guess?

 
I’m hoping the CDC doesn’t do anything. Their current no sail order ends this week. If they don’t do anything, that is the CDC giving the green light for cruises from US ports. Like someone else already mentioned, CLIA suspended all cruises from US ports until the end of October, so nothing is going to change in the near future no matter what the CDC does or doesn’t do. 

[jimbo5544]

2 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

 
I’m hoping the CDC doesn’t do anything. Their current no sail order ends this week. If they don’t do anything, that is the CDC giving the green light for cruises from US ports. Like someone else already mentioned, CLIA suspended all cruises from US ports until the end of October, so nothing is going to change in the near future no matter what the CDC does or doesn’t do. 

While I agree it might be the best course of action, that would be a whimp move on their part.  

[PhillyFan33579]

7 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

While I agree it might be the best course of action, that would be a whimp move on their part.  

You know I am not a big fan of the CDC, so anything they do or don’t do won’t surprise me. 

[jimbo5544]

2 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

You know I am not a big fan of the CDC, so anything they do or don’t do won’t surprise me. 

I am also a member and running for president of the hate cc’d fan club.  They continue to under achieve on a remarkable consistent basis.  

Edited September 28, 2020 by jimbo5544

[clo]

Could I place an addendum here? If the CDC lifts the no sail order and mandates all the things that have been put out by CLIA, don't you think it would take at least a couple of months to get it all ready to go? So December? Or January?

[cruisemom42]

[chengkp75]

13 hours ago, Raxter54 said:

With CLIA sending suggestions to the CDC and the 2 Florida Senators pressing them, I'm thinking (hoping?) that the CDC might publish the new guidelines by the end of this week. Anyone else have a guess?

What has changed that would lead the CDC to issue new requirements?  They have set requirements, and it is then up to the cruise lines to develop action/response plans to meet those requirements.  To date, this has not happened.  The "plans" sent to the CDC amount to a negotiating position paper, with an expert board's recommendations, but they are a long way from being the type of plan that is needed to satisfy the CDC.  Anyone who is familiar with the ISM (International Safety Management) System that ships operate under knows how detailed these action plans need to be, and as an example, one only needs to look at the CDC's VSP (Vessel Sanitation Plan) to see the level of detail required.

[bigrednole]

14 hours ago, ray98 said:

The CDC should take a step back.....they have been ineffective and certainly have placed a target on the cruise industry.

I question the word "ineffective". I would prefer a more chosen word of "useless". This pandemic has shown how much money is being wasted on people with no processes or standards in place to manage a pandemic. I feel actors that play CDC in movies are more capable than the actual people at the CDC. 

1. Single, standardize method of collecting data by all professionals within the country and territories
2. Free, open source data sharing on all information including race, ethnicity, age, sex, all pre-existing conditions, etc. Data scientists are far better with raw data than the manipulated data that was given to the press. As it has been for the last 7 months, garbage in is garbage out.
3. Standard method for declaring positive results and positive cause of death by the pathogen. Because the data is so horribly corrupt, the death and infection totals are over stated. No need to argue it, this is fact. I understand the other argument that not everyone has been tested. True, but if they were and positive, they had no symptoms because they lived their everyday life.

Edited September 29, 2020 by bigrednole

[K32682]

14 hours ago, ray98 said:

The CDC should take a step back.....they have been ineffective and certainly have placed a target on the cruise industry.

 

The cruise industry put a target on itself and continues to do so.  

[ray98]

30 minutes ago, K32682 said:

 

The cruise industry put a target on itself and continues to do so.  

 

Nah....the cruise industry presents a unique environment allowing you to see the big picture because you have a captive audience for a week.  The people still allowed to jet around the world, crowd in to their local grocery store or visit some amusement parks are no safer.  They are catching and spreading the virus at the same rate, they just disperse their impact into the community where it becomes some random unconnected number.

 

The cruise industry was low hanging fruit, it allowed the CDC to look as if they were doing "something".

[Raxter54]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

What has changed that would lead the CDC to issue new requirements?  They have set requirements, and it is then up to the cruise lines to develop action/response plans to meet those requirements.

Could you please give me a web address where these requirements to resume cruising are published? I haven't seen anything about the CDC putting out guidelines or requirements yet....

[cruisemom42]

3 minutes ago, Raxter54 said:

Could you please give me a web address where these requirements to resume cruising are published? I haven't seen anything about the CDC putting out guidelines or requirements yet....

 

So much misinformation is out there, fomented by those who don't understand the process and/or don't agree with it.

 

For those under the impression that the CDC has done nothing, they made it clear way back when the "No Sail" order was issued what the path forward for cruise lines was. In short, CDC expected (and expects) the cruise lines to provide them with a detailed plan and procedures to " prevent, mitigate, and respond to the spread of COVID-19 on board ships."  Including all of the following items:

 

• Training of all crew on COVID-19 prevention and mitigation
• Onboard monitoring of crew and non-crew for signs and symptoms of COVID-19
• COVID-19 testing (onboard or onshore)
• Onboard isolation, quarantine, and social distancing
• Adequate medical staffing (this can include telehealth or telemedicine providers)
• Maintaining sufficient quantities of Personal Protective Equipment (PPE), oxygen, and other supplies and the ability to obtain additional resources, if needed
• COVID-19 outbreak management and response information
• Medical arrangements for onshore evaluation and hospitalization
• Screening of embarking or disembarking crew and non-crew
• A system to notify respective national, state, and local public health authorities

In addition, plans should address pre-boarding measures, preventive measures onboard ships, and other measures, all of which can be seen here:   https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/maritime/recommendations-for-ships.html

 

For the first few months, the cruise lines apparently did nothing; then, when they realized the CDC was not going to just issue a re-start without having such plans, they started to scramble to put them together. 

 

Nothing I have seen so far includes the level of detail that I think CDC is looking for. However, it could be the lines are "floating" things like the Healthy Sails recommendations in order to get some response to CDC if they are on the right track. 

 

Those who think the 70-odd pages of Healthy Sails is enough documentation clearly have not worked in highly regulated industries. In mine, a single SOP dealing with a single step in a process could run to that length.

 

CDC is not the bad guy here. Just because everyone is frustrated and not being able to cruise doesn't mean that cruising should be allowed to restart when it is not necessarily safe to do so. Just yesterday there were reports of a number of crew testing positive for COVID on one of the ships trying to start up cruising in the Mediterranean.

 

[chengkp75]

27 minutes ago, Raxter54 said:

Could you please give me a web address where these requirements to resume cruising are published? I haven't seen anything about the CDC putting out guidelines or requirements yet....

The requirements are all listed in the "no sail order", put out there in March, and can be seen at the link above.  The CDC does not promulgate specific plans to meet the requirements that they feel are necessary to preserve public health.  Just like the VSP is a co-operative plan, developed by both the CDC and the cruise lines (the CDC provides the "what is needed", and the cruise lines provide the "what we do to meet that"), any action plan needs to have specifics of actions to take, equipment to have, etc.  Wherever the Healthy Sail panel says "the cruise lines should" do such and so, the actual plan needs to say how the cruise lines intend to do this.  It must have specific contracts and contact information for the private health providers and quarantine facilities that the CDC requires and that the report recommends, much like the vessel's VRP (Vessel Response Plan, or the plan for dealing with an oil spill) designates the contracted oil spill response company, and the contact information and available resources.

 

I agree with cruisemom that the Healthy Sail report is a position paper, to see if the lines are on the right track.  Given comments from Carnival's CEO a few weeks back about it being too soon to prepare protocols, since they didn't know what would be required (hoping, foolishly, that the CDC would change their requirements as the pandemic wound down), I don't believe the cruise lines have gone much beyond this report, which as cruisemom says, is far short of the type of action/response plan that is required.

[Raxter54]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

The requirements are all listed in the "no sail order", put out there in March, and can be seen at the link above.  The CDC does not promulgate specific plans to meet the requirements that they feel are necessary to preserve public health.  Just like the VSP is a co-operative plan, developed by both the CDC and the cruise lines (the CDC provides the "what is needed", and the cruise lines provide the "what we do to meet that"), any action plan needs to have specifics of actions to take, equipment to have, etc.  Wherever the Healthy Sail panel says "the cruise lines should" do such and so, the actual plan needs to say how the cruise lines intend to do this.  It must have specific contracts and contact information for the private health providers and quarantine facilities that the CDC requires and that the report recommends, much like the vessel's VRP (Vessel Response Plan, or the plan for dealing with an oil spill) designates the contracted oil spill response company, and the contact information and available resources.

 

I agree with cruisemom that the Healthy Sail report is a position paper, to see if the lines are on the right track.  Given comments from Carnival's CEO a few weeks back about it being too soon to prepare protocols, since they didn't know what would be required (hoping, foolishly, that the CDC would change their requirements as the pandemic wound down), I don't believe the cruise lines have gone much beyond this report, which as cruisemom says, is far short of the type of action/response plan that is required.

If this was "all out there" in March, why would the CDC wait until late August and start asking for input on how cruising should be restarted? Confusing.

.

[clo]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

CDC is not the bad guy here. Just because everyone is frustrated and not being able to cruise doesn't mean that cruising should be allowed to restart when it is not necessarily safe to do so. Just yesterday there were reports of a number of crew testing positive for COVID on one of the ships trying to start up cruising in the Mediterranean.

 

This^

[d9704011]

23 minutes ago, Raxter54 said:

If this was "all out there" in March, why would the CDC wait until late August and start asking for input on how cruising should be restarted? Confusing.

.

The cruise lines had months to develop and submit detailed plans for consideration by the CDC which may have led to an earlier resumption of cruising.  The recent Request for Information is a process to acquire information that may be used for future guidance on public health and the resumption of cruise ship operations.  Without being privy to all that’s gone on, my feeling is that any plans submitted were inadequate and the majority of the public input will be something like.... I want to cruise again... not too helpful.

[chengkp75]

36 minutes ago, Raxter54 said:

If this was "all out there" in March, why would the CDC wait until late August and start asking for input on how cruising should be restarted? Confusing.

.

Because the original no sail order, as is stated in the order, is an emergency order, and does not carry the finality of a regulation, and does not require a "request for information" that is required when a new regulation is proposed.  At the time of the no sail order, it was not anticipated that this was going to be a long term problem, so only an emergency order was used.  Now, they are looking at this long term, and are likely considering making the requirements permanent.  And, the "request for information" really wasn't to query the cruising public, nor the cruising haters, but input from stakeholders and experts.  Anyone who believes that any comments from either Stand.earth or the cruising public received anything other than a casual perusal and dismissal is naïve regarding government operations. 

 

The better question is, why if these requirements were known in March, have the cruise lines done nothing to meet them?

Edited September 29, 2020 by chengkp75