Covid-19 Vaccine Pfizer/BioNTech 90% Effective - Update 11/9/20

[All-ready2cruise]

6 minutes ago, zdcatc12 said:

 They told us that this is probably what Pfizer would do, i.e. let the placebos get the vaccine. However, in order to continue in the trial, the vaccine would obviously need to be the Pfizer one and not one of the others.

Good luck, hope all goes your way. And thanks for sticking with it! 

[ziggyuk]

Few issues with the Pfizer Vaccine, we started vaccinations yesterday and 2 health workers with known allergies and whom already carried EpiPen's have experienced anaphylactic reactions, as a result the Pfizer vaccine is not being used for people with allergies until more is known.
No word yet on how severe the anaphylactic reactions were or the nature of the heath workers allergies.

[BermudaBound2014]

49 minutes ago, ziggyuk said:

Few issues with the Pfizer Vaccine, we started vaccinations yesterday and 2 health workers with known allergies and whom already carried EpiPen's have experienced anaphylactic reactions, as a result the Pfizer vaccine is not being used for people with allergies until more is known.
No word yet on how severe the anaphylactic reactions were or the nature of the heath workers allergies.

 

Lots of articles on the subject floating around today. I'm not familiar with this particular news source, but this report seems reasonably well balanced. 

 

"However, the companies’ trial had excluded participants with a “history of severe adverse reaction associated with a vaccine”.

https://www.ft.com/content/239c768f-9f0d-46d4-8e86-f6944914003f

 

It seems the initial trials for the vaccine did not include studying patients with a history of severe allergies. Is it common practice for companies to exclude participants groups? Just wondering if this is standard protocol or a function of the "Warp Speed" committee recommendations?

[ziggyuk]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Lots of articles on the subject floating around today. I'm not familiar with this particular news source, but this report seems reasonably well balanced. 

 

"However, the companies’ trial had excluded participants with a “history of severe adverse reaction associated with a vaccine”.

https://www.ft.com/content/239c768f-9f0d-46d4-8e86-f6944914003f

 

It seems the initial trials for the vaccine did not include studying patients with a history of severe allergies. Is it common practice for companies to exclude participants groups? Just wondering if this is standard protocol or a function of the "Warp Speed" committee recommendations?

 

That's a good news source, the Financial Times is reputable, far better then the Daily (Fail) Mail that normally gets quoted.

 

It is a bit odd they did not include things like this from the trial participants, you would think they would include as many types of people as possible, I was accepted on the Oxford trail and I have diabetes.
You would certainly hope they had tested it on a good range of people and conditions when you consider it is being used on the most vulnerable at first!

[PelicanBill]

Yes it's normal to exclude those with history of adverse vaccine reactions.

 

If there was a history of adverse reactions, the recipient should have been asked and advised or had to sign a waiver. 

 

I am always asked not to get the flu vaccine if I have a history of adverse reaction or allergy to eggs.

 

 

[All-ready2cruise]

11 minutes ago, ziggyuk said:

You would certainly hope they had tested it on a good range of people and conditions when you consider it is being used on the most vulnerable at first!

I think of some of reason they didn't test those who might be vulnerable was due to the hope that a vaccine would be developed quickly. 

I just wonder how many people with conditions would volunteer to take a chance on an unknown vaccine being developed this quickly.  

Edited December 9, 2020 by All-ready2cruise

[nomad098]

I posted this on another thread towards the bottom of the page is a list of Pfizer excluded categories

 

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/record/NCT04368728

 

It makes interesting reading

[Von & John]

Not a Record we were looking to set: First US Adverse reaction to COVID-19 Vaccine - Juneau, AK

Within 10 minutes of receiving the vaccine, the Healthcare Worker had an anaphylactic reaction - no previous allergies or reactions to anything.

 

https://www.alaskasnewssource.com/2020/12/16/live-health-officials-speak-on-covid-19-vaccination-after-juneau-resident-had-an-adverse-reaction/

 

Unfortunately, a 2nd Healthcare worker at the same facility had an adverse reaction as well, the next day.  We've had a 3rd adverse reaction, this time in Fairbanks & this was also anaphylaxis.

 

 

 

 

[beerman2]

6 hours ago, Von & John said:

Not a Record we were looking to set: First US Adverse reaction to COVID-19 Vaccine - Juneau, AK

Within 10 minutes of receiving the vaccine, the Healthcare Worker had an anaphylactic reaction - no previous allergies or reactions to anything.

 

https://www.alaskasnewssource.com/2020/12/16/live-health-officials-speak-on-covid-19-vaccination-after-juneau-resident-had-an-adverse-reaction/

 

Unfortunately, a 2nd Healthcare worker at the same facility had an adverse reaction as well, the next day.  We've had a 3rd adverse reaction, this time in Fairbanks & this was also anaphylaxis.

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately you will get the argument that the % is minuscule, which it is. However don't try to tell those 3 it wasn't a big deal. Not saying you would but there are some that try to pass it off as a blimp on the radar.

 

[BirdTravels]

On 12/19/2020 at 1:59 AM, beerman2 said:

Unfortunately you will get the argument that the % is minuscule, which it is. However don't try to tell those 3 it wasn't a big deal. Not saying you would but there are some that try to pass it off as a blimp on the radar.

 

Every time I get a flu shot, I get the allergy question and I also get the “don’t leave for 15 min in case you have an allergic reaction”. Reactions happen,,, even with something as common as a flu vaccine. 

[DCGuy64]

On 12/18/2020 at 11:58 PM, Von & John said:

Not a Record we were looking to set: First US Adverse reaction to COVID-19 Vaccine - Juneau, AK

Within 10 minutes of receiving the vaccine, the Healthcare Worker had an anaphylactic reaction - no previous allergies or reactions to anything.

 

https://www.alaskasnewssource.com/2020/12/16/live-health-officials-speak-on-covid-19-vaccination-after-juneau-resident-had-an-adverse-reaction/

 

Unfortunately, a 2nd Healthcare worker at the same facility had an adverse reaction as well, the next day.  We've had a 3rd adverse reaction, this time in Fairbanks & this was also anaphylaxis.

 

 

 

 

2 reactions vs millions of doses given = statistically insignificant.

[nomad098]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

2 reactions vs millions of doses given = statistically insignificant.

 

More like 8 in 700,000 if we're keeping score. 6 according to the CDC and 2 in the UK as of 2 days ago.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

 

What will be interesting to see is if the Moderna vaccine has a similar reaction or not as this could point to the lipid coating in the Pfizer vaccine causing the reaction, but if a similar number react to the Moderna vaccine it is likely the synthetic mRNA causing the reaction.

[DCGuy64]

30 minutes ago, nomad098 said:

 

More like 8 in 700,000 if we're keeping score. 6 according to the CDC and 2 in the UK as of 2 days ago.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

 

What will be interesting to see is if the Moderna vaccine has a similar reaction or not as this could point to the lipid coating in the Pfizer vaccine causing the reaction, but if a similar number react to the Moderna vaccine it is likely the synthetic mRNA causing the reaction.

According to the data in the link you provided, the USA has administered more doses than the UK, which is surprising given that the UK received the vaccine before we did. Several journalistic pundits, in true fashion, made it sound like a race with the UK 'beating' the US. It's not a competition, people!

I don't know how many bad reactions there have been worldwide, but again pointing to the data in that link, there have been over 2 million doses given so far (most in China). The US is on track to receive millions more doses in the coming weeks, particularly Moderna's, which was just approved for emergency use last Friday and began shipping yesterday morning.

Edited December 21, 2020 by DCGuy64
added missing word 'use'

[oteixeira]

1 hour ago, nomad098 said:

 

More like 8 in 700,000 if we're keeping score. 6 according to the CDC and 2 in the UK as of 2 days ago.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

 

What will be interesting to see is if the Moderna vaccine has a similar reaction or not as this could point to the lipid coating in the Pfizer vaccine causing the reaction, but if a similar number react to the Moderna vaccine it is likely the synthetic mRNA causing the reaction.

I just want to point out that 8 in 700,000 is in fact 0.001 % which, as @DCGuy64 correctly states is statistically insignificant. 

[Von & John]

4 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

2 reactions vs millions of doses given = statistically insignificant.

 

17 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Every time I get a flu shot, I get the allergy question and I also get the “don’t leave for 15 min in case you have an allergic reaction”. Reactions happen,,, even with something as common as a flu vaccine. 

 

52 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

I just want to point out that 8 in 700,000 is in fact 0.001 % which, as @DCGuy64 correctly states is statistically insignificant. 

 

Good Morning  --  I was not attempting to be statistically significant...
I was simply reporting the news...
And, possibly, hoping people would have empathy for those impacted...
On a side note - there have been more cases of anaphylaxis in Alaska since first reported...

Wondering if there is a potential link to low Vitamin D Levels...

Edited December 21, 2020 by Von & John

[nomad098]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

According to the data in the link you provided, the USA has administered more doses than the UK, which is surprising given that the UK received the vaccine before we did. Several journalistic pundits, in true fashion, made it sound like a race with the UK 'beating' the US. It's not a competition, people!

I don't know how many bad reactions there have been worldwide, but again pointing to the data in that link, there have been over 2 million doses given so far (most in China). The US is on track to receive millions more doses in the coming weeks, particularly Moderna's, which was just approved for emergency use last Friday and began shipping yesterday morning.

 

Sorry I misread the information tiny print 😀 But still an odd way to do the numbers, I'm not sure they have gotten them right

 

Boris Johnson reported UK just over 500,000 so 0.75 per 100 and 2 bad reactions from Pfizer vaccine

 

This article reports numbers as

US 211,038 and the CDC reports 6 bad reactions from Pfizer vaccine

https://www.nst.com.my/world/world/2020/12/650941/more-16-million-people-have-been-vaccinated-against-covid-19

 

Not sure who's right but hopefully numbers will go up quickly for all.

 

China and Russia are using their own vaccines.

 

53 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

I just want to point out that 8 in 700,000 is in fact 0.001 % which, as @DCGuy64 correctly states is statistically insignificant. 

 

Not to them it's not

[oteixeira]

35 minutes ago, nomad098 said:

 

Not to them it's not

I never said that to them it wasn't important.  There is a huge difference between a person and their life/health and a statistical insignificance.  We are talking about the later here.  I can tell you stories everyday of tragedies in life that are absolutely something you NEVER EVER talk about because they are statistically irrelevant to you at this moment.  (eg.  Somewhere yesterday there was 21 people hit and killed by a car/bus (a pedestrian)).   Source:  https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/road-users/pedestrians/

Sad for the folks who died?  Heck yes.  Not insignificant for them, also heck yea.  Statistically insignificant?  YES.  Something we are on the internet talking about every day, or that you hear about in the news every time it happens?  No.  Something that will make us stop driving?   No.  Covid is just micro analyzed right now, or you would have NEVER heard about the side effects.  Heck, I haven't researched it, but how many people have bad side effects to the flu shot, and who talks about that on cruising forums daily??

[peterwl694]

I am scheduled to receive the vaccine within the next week. I really hope this may be the light at the end of this long, seemingly-never-ending tunnel..

[BermudaBound2014]

Unfortunately, statistical significance has played a very minor role how we respond to Covid.

[DCGuy64]

57 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

I never said that to them it wasn't important.  There is a huge difference between a person and their life/health and a statistical insignificance.  We are talking about the later here.  I can tell you stories everyday of tragedies in life that are absolutely something you NEVER EVER talk about because they are statistically irrelevant to you at this moment.  (eg.  Somewhere yesterday there was 21 people hit and killed by a car/bus (a pedestrian)).   Source:  https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/road-users/pedestrians/

Sad for the folks who died?  Heck yes.  Not insignificant for them, also heck yea.  Statistically insignificant?  YES.  Something we are on the internet talking about every day, or that you hear about in the news every time it happens?  No.  Something that will make us stop driving?   No.  Covid is just micro analyzed right now, or you would have NEVER heard about the side effects.  Heck, I haven't researched it, but how many people have bad side effects to the flu shot, and who talks about that on cruising forums daily??

Exactly. Much has been made this year of the millions of people who've contracted COVID-19 and the millions who've died. No one underestimates the toll to human life. But when we're talking about multiple vaccines being administered as we speak, and a tiny fraction of those receiving them have experienced unpleasant side effects (sometimes very serious ones, but all treatable and no loss of life, thus far), I think it's worth pointing that out. I'd also argue that anaphylaxis from a shot is far preferable to dying from COVID. (at the risk of stating the blatantly obvious)

[Formula280SS]

31 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Unfortunately, statistical significance has played a very minor role how we respond to Covid.

 

Agreed, and the CDC's new panel recommendations for the prioritizations of the vaccine allocation are continued proof of the lack of any integrity based on factual data.

 

Thankfully, we have 50 states plus territories that have their own implementation plan and not all will fall in line with, IMO, a pathetic allocation of the vaccine resources.

 

Statistical data identify those that are at the highest risk of death.  How?  They died.  Those elderly in long-term care facilities, higher amounts in governmental ones (federal, state and other local) and "front line" health care workers, immediately followed by those "over 60 and those with serious underlying conditions."

 

So, what did the "experts" recommend?  

 

Front line medical workers, great.

 

Long-term care facilities' residents and patients, great.

 

Over 60 or with serious underlying conditions?  NOPE.

 

"Essential workers" (i.e., either those that cash lobbied and those that are politically/vote important).

 

I'm not going to go through the list, but if one is a healthy, under 60 year old in ANY work environment, the data is clear that such is essentially not at risk of death (if that is what is desired to be minimized).

 

It doesn't make any sense for a 28 year old (teacher, fire fighter, liquor store clerk, telephone repairman, USPS driver, etc.) to get a life saving, but limited in supply, early vaccination.

 

So, if it makes no sense, it is called the "recommendations of government experts."

 

LOL.  Government experts, the ultimate planetary oxymoron.  😲

 

Just IMO.

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Formula280SS

[nomad098]

1 hour ago, Von & John said:

On a side note - there have been more cases of anaphylaxis in Alaska since first reported...

Wondering if there is a potential link to low Vitamin D Levels...

 

Interesting as this would have a knock on effect for many communities 

 

I know synthetic mRNA is known to cause an autoimmune response this was one of the biggest stumbling blocks of early research. They resolved this by placing the mRNA in an envelope, in Pfizer's case a type of lipid. 

 

During recent cancer research it was shown synthetic mRNA treatments could induce a autoimmune response in a small number of patients but the researchers could not pin down if it was the treatment being coded into the mRNA or the synthetic mRNA that was causing it.

 

Anaphylactoid reaction to the vaccine would look no different to anaphylaxis and is treated the same way.

The question is,

is it the lipid coating, the synthetic mRNA or something else causing the reaction?

https://www.worldallergy.org/ask-the-expert/questions/anaphylaxis-vs-anaphylactoid-reactions

 

[cruisequeen4ever]

3 hours ago, Von & John said:

 

 

 

Good Morning  --  I was not attempting to be statistically significant...
I was simply reporting the news...
And, possibly, hoping people would have empathy for those impacted...
On a side note - there have been more cases of anaphylaxis in Alaska since first reported...

Wondering if there is a potential link to low Vitamin D Levels...

That’s a really interesting theory! They do say for everyone to load up on Vitamin D to help prevent Covid, so maybe there is a connection to the vaccine, too. It certainly seems odd that our state has had a higher number of reactions compared to other states. 

[DCGuy64]

15 hours ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

That’s a really interesting theory! They do say for everyone to load up on Vitamin D to help prevent Covid, so maybe there is a connection to the vaccine, too. It certainly seems odd that our state has had a higher number of reactions compared to other states. 

Interesting. I've been taking Vitamin D supplements since the beginning of the year and I have been healthy, so maybe there's some truth to that. Thanks!