Will P&O now delay announcements for future cruise pauses?

[Dermotsgirl]

9 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

I don’t have a crystal ball, so can only say “Who knows” when changes, hopefully improvements might come.

 

However, I do know my own psyche and that of those close to me.  I cannot imagine the depth of despair we might feel if things are ‘set free’ for a few weeks in summer, like last year, but we end up locked down again in January 2022 

 

Boring, boring, boring, I know, but the vaccines have given us the start of a Get Out of Jail card.  If we use it carefully and accept short term pain for long term gain we might get there.  Please don’t blow it! 

Although it’s difficult, my mindset is to expect restrictions to come and go, and not to plan too far ahead.

 

This is particularly tough for me, as I’m a planner by nature, and normally have my life mapped out for the next couple of years.

 

Unfortunately, life is different now, and I’m not even thinking about a time when we might get back to how it was at the start of last year.

 

That’s not to say I don’t feel sad about it - I felt a bit down yesterday, as cruising felt a long way away, but acceptance of the current situation works for me, rather than repeatedly having my hopes dashed. 

[joeecco]

45 minutes ago, tring said:

Just seen this posted somewhere else. 

 

The following links were given:-

 

https://www.hospitalityandcateringnews.com/2021/01/government-extends-lockdown-july/?fbclid=IwAR0Hbk0A9t1Qn65xUsWdqNjOwfOih2rC96kdGkYgqVbwTGrSLgWt15ADujI

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/8/made?fbclid=IwAR2W9a91CWTWVv_3yU5EQTbCRxVuuaqvuw5oeZTxxvoV_Tqg8JNIwpfYbT8

 

The poster works in the hospitality industry and says  opening dates have been given by the Government and they are:-  "Retail and leisure won’t be open again until late April / May at the earliest and UK hotels won’t be open until July."

 

I presume plans can always change, but does not look good for the summer, especially cruising, from what I can see.

 

I’m getting increasingly tired of the random dates and timelines the governments seem to work towards without giving us any reason why. 
 

If they are expecting to go along with this timeline, why don’t they tell us why July is the time they expect things to get better. 
 

Dates are plucked out of thin air by every TOM, D*** and Harry at the moment and none of them correspond. 

[terrierjohn]

28 minutes ago, Eddie99 said:

I don’t have a crystal ball, so can only say “Who knows” when changes, hopefully improvements might come.

 

However, I do know my own psyche and that of those close to me.  I cannot imagine the depth of despair we might feel if things are ‘set free’ for a few weeks in summer, like last year, but we end up locked down again in January 2022 

 

Boring, boring, boring, I know, but the vaccines have given us the start of a Get Out of Jail card.  If we use it carefully and accept short term pain for long term gain we might get there.  Please don’t blow it! 

If the vaccines work then by early March the most vulnerable should have active antibodies and the number of hospital admissions will have declined quite significantly. So even if the infection rate is still high, it will be amongst younger people who mostly will not need hospital care. Equally we will then be vaccinating the younger, or more vulnerable worker cohorts, so the R rate and number of infections will continue to decline, even if we start to unlock.

Schools first, and hopefully hairdressers before the end of March, with a gradual progression over the rest of Spring, resulting in a final opening of the hospitality sector in early June.

I don't think that scenario is at all unrealistic, if we can maintain the vaccination rate at between 2-3 million per week.

[molecrochip]

53 minutes ago, tring said:

Just seen this posted somewhere else. 

 

The following links were given:-

 

https://www.hospitalityandcateringnews.com/2021/01/government-extends-lockdown-july/?fbclid=IwAR0Hbk0A9t1Qn65xUsWdqNjOwfOih2rC96kdGkYgqVbwTGrSLgWt15ADujI

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/8/made?fbclid=IwAR2W9a91CWTWVv_3yU5EQTbCRxVuuaqvuw5oeZTxxvoV_Tqg8JNIwpfYbT8

 

The poster works in the hospitality industry and says  opening dates have been given by the Government and they are:-  "Retail and leisure won’t be open again until late April / May at the earliest and UK hotels won’t be open until July."

 

I presume plans can always change, but does not look good for the summer, especially cruising, from what I can see.

 

All that has happened is the legislation's powers have been extended to July.  This does not mean that the legislation needs to be used. It just avoids having to extend it every time it runs out.

 

Imagine the scenario, we're all out of lockdown in April. 2 months later, a sudden flair up in ABC city means a lockdown is needed. With the legislation already in effect it can happen almost instantaneously. If the legislation was not in place, you're looking at a minimum of 48 hours+.

 

There is absolutely loads of legislation in place sitting dormant, in case its needed.

[Snow Hill]

38 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I think life on land has got to be sorted out before they can even contemplate life at sea. 
 

 

Until the poorer countries get access to vaccine we will probably see restrictions on itineraries which will work against those countries who are ports of call for cruise ships. 
 

It does seem to me that the richer countries are buying up the vaccine stocks, India have donated vaccine to 8 countries including Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bangladesh, whilst China are looking to get vaccine to Sri Lanka as well. 

[pete14]

With so many variables and unknowns, surely it is impossible to commit to when restrictions will be eased. In showing reluctance to do this, I think the government are getting it right.
 

What is not helping is ‘experts’ some of whom appear to have given themselves a role in an organisation who sound authoritative, but speak for no one but them selves or their organisation, who are given airtime and credibility by the media, both broadcast and print. Membership of SAGE is a credibility bonus but SAGE do not speak with one voice and there appear to be no restrictions on what any of the many members on different SAGE groups say publicly.

[AnnieC]

11 minutes ago, pete14 said:

With so many variables and unknowns, surely it is impossible to commit to when restrictions will be eased. In showing reluctance to do this, I think the government are getting it right.
 

What is not helping is ‘experts’ some of whom appear to have given themselves a role in an organisation who sound authoritative, but speak for no one but them selves or their organisation, who are given airtime and credibility by the media, both broadcast and print. Membership of SAGE is a credibility bonus but SAGE do not speak with one voice and there appear to be no restrictions on what any of the many members on different SAGE groups say publicly.

Oh how I agree!

[yorkshirephil]

1 minute ago, pete14 said:

With so many variables and unknowns, surely it is impossible to commit to when restrictions will be eased. In showing reluctance to do this, I think the government are getting it right.
 

What is not helping is ‘experts’ some of whom appear to have given themselves a role in an organisation who sound authoritative, but speak for no one but them selves or their organisation, who are given airtime and credibility by the media, both broadcast and print. Membership of SAGE is a credibility bonus but SAGE do not speak with one voice and there appear to be no restrictions on what any of the many members on different SAGE groups say publicly.

I think people want something to cling to so they can formulate their own plans for the future, otherwise we stay in limbo. Nobody "knows" what is going to happen and when, we can all have a guess educated or otherwise which is what most of the posts on this site are, the real experts are undecided on many aspects. I think we are in a better position at the moment when compared to last year. (I know the death toll is still high before anybody jumps on me) I think the end of February will give a much clearer overall picture and a solid plan for exiting lockdown will be easier to manage. It is always going to be a balancing act and we will all have different views on whether the government actions are/were the best. On the one hand we need to see whether the vaccines are working to their full potential which won't happen if the majority of people are still locked down. We have to keep the death toll down and relieve pressure on the NHS, several reports are now quoting tens of thousands of cancer sufferers have missed out on life saving operations. I don't envy anybody having to make some of these decisions over the coming months.

[Teabelly69]

Celebrity have just cancelled everything until 30th April and the European season unt il end of October

[Gettingwarmer]

5 minutes ago, Teabelly69 said:

Celebrity have just cancelled everything until 30th April and the European season unt il end of October

I see nothing on the Celebrity Cruise Critic. Do you have a link.

[Gettingwarmer]

10 minutes ago, Teabelly69 said:

Celebrity have just cancelled everything until 30th April and the European season unt il end of October

Sorry found it on their website.

[tring]

1 hour ago, joeecco said:

I’m getting increasingly tired of the random dates and timelines the governments seem to work towards without giving us any reason why. 
 

If they are expecting to go along with this timeline, why don’t they tell us why July is the time they expect things to get better. 
 

Dates are plucked out of thin air by every TOM, D*** and Harry at the moment and none of them correspond. 

 

I do agree it is the lack of information from the Government that is the real problem.  It was the same with the vaccine program, yet they eventually knuckled under and gave a provisional timetable, which as they said may have to be changed, but at least it has given some sort of hope.  It is exactly the same now with the lock down as they have said schools will not be open until at least 8th March and also say that schools will be given priority, yet they will not commit to lock down remaining in place until that time, but as you say various comments are made by ministers here and there which seem to give cryptic hints.  The Boris says he will not give an outline of how the lock down will end until 22nd Feb - errr I think that is the lock down that is in place until a week before that!!

 

The timetable of lock down will depend on how things develop, but not even giving an outline path of what may be done (or not) is a very bad sit on the fence situation IMO.

Edited February 1, 2021 by tring

[joeecco]

13 minutes ago, Teabelly69 said:

Celebrity have just cancelled everything until 30th April and the European season unt il end of October

I’m afraid that’s incorrect. They have cancelled SOME of the ships from Europe and repositioned them to the Caribbean but not all of the ships. It’s about 50% cancelled, 50% going ‘ahead’. 

[joeecco]

Silhouette, Infinity, Reflection and Apex all still booked to sail Europe this year. 

[Teabelly69]

Sorry, misread it. Not as bad as I first thought then. Let's hope P& O update us soon

[pete14]

1 hour ago, yorkshirephil said:

I think people want something to cling to so they can formulate their own plans for the future, otherwise we stay in limbo. Nobody "knows" what is going to happen and when, we can all have a guess educated or otherwise which is what most of the posts on this site are, the real experts are undecided on many aspects. I think we are in a better position at the moment when compared to last year. (I know the death toll is still high before anybody jumps on me) I think the end of February will give a much clearer overall picture and a solid plan for exiting lockdown will be easier to manage. It is always going to be a balancing act and we will all have different views on whether the government actions are/were the best. On the one hand we need to see whether the vaccines are working to their full potential which won't happen if the majority of people are still locked down. We have to keep the death toll down and relieve pressure on the NHS, several reports are now quoting tens of thousands of cancer sufferers have missed out on life saving operations. I don't envy anybody having to make some of these decisions over the coming months.

I agree with what you say but I just hope the constant clamour for information and ‘experts’ giving their views does not push the government into ending lockdown too early and risk another spike in infections with the increased death toll it brings. Far better be kept in lockdown for a few weeks longer in order to lessen the chance of this. It is a very delicate balance between public safety and freedom to get back to some sort of normal but I prefer the emphasis to be tilted towards safety (and no more stupid eat out to help out style gimmicks)

[joeecco]

26 minutes ago, pete14 said:

I agree with what you say but I just hope the constant clamour for information and ‘experts’ giving their views does not push the government into ending lockdown too early and risk another spike in infections with the increased death toll it brings. Far better be kept in lockdown for a few weeks longer in order to lessen the chance of this. It is a very delicate balance between public safety and freedom to get back to some sort of normal but I prefer the emphasis to be tilted towards safety (and no more stupid eat out to help out style gimmicks)

I agree with everything except the ‘gimmick’ comment, in hindsight it led to more cases yes and I don’t disagree with you on that but it did help so many small business and their employees, I have so many friends who work

in hospitality and the ones that remain in jobs all say it’s thanks to that increase in the summer. Hopefully they have just as good a summer this year but without the rise in cases/deaths this time. 

[Scriv]

8 hours ago, tring said:

Just seen this posted somewhere else. 

 

The following links were given:-

 

https://www.hospitalityandcateringnews.com/2021/01/government-extends-lockdown-july/?fbclid=IwAR0Hbk0A9t1Qn65xUsWdqNjOwfOih2rC96kdGkYgqVbwTGrSLgWt15ADujI

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/8/made?fbclid=IwAR2W9a91CWTWVv_3yU5EQTbCRxVuuaqvuw5oeZTxxvoV_Tqg8JNIwpfYbT8

 

The poster works in the hospitality industry and says  opening dates have been given by the Government and they are:-  "Retail and leisure won’t be open again until late April / May at the earliest and UK hotels won’t be open until July."

 

I presume plans can always change, but does not look good for the summer, especially cruising, from what I can see.

 

 

I know this is slightly side tracking, but does anyone have any idea which category self catering accommodation like holiday cottages and caravans fit into?

 

[tring]

7 hours ago, Snow Hill said:

Until the poorer countries get access to vaccine we will probably see restrictions on itineraries which will work against those countries who are ports of call for cruise ships. 
 

It does seem to me that the richer countries are buying up the vaccine stocks, India have donated vaccine to 8 countries including Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bangladesh, whilst China are looking to get vaccine to Sri Lanka as well. 

 

Seemed a bit strange that the Chinese are helping Sri Lanka.  Then DH reminded me that over the last four years, (when we have had two holidays in Sri Lanka), we saw a very big area with numerous tower blocks going up in Colombo - all Chinese investment.  The main complex appeared finished when we were last there, this time last year.  One of the big hotels, (The Shangri La), that was bombed in the terrorist attacks was part of that Chinese complex.  

Edited February 1, 2021 by tring

[terrierjohn]

5 hours ago, pete14 said:

I agree with what you say but I just hope the constant clamour for information and ‘experts’ giving their views does not push the government into ending lockdown too early and risk another spike in infections with the increased death toll it brings. Far better be kept in lockdown for a few weeks longer in order to lessen the chance of this. It is a very delicate balance between public safety and freedom to get back to some sort of normal but I prefer the emphasis to be tilted towards safety (and no more stupid eat out to help out style gimmicks)

Pete most of the european cafe culture re-opened during the summer, and that did not seem to lead to any increase in infection rates. Possibly its the UK culture that resulted in our increased infection rates in September, rather than Rishi's attempt to breathe life back into the hospitality sector.

[pete14]

30 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Pete most of the european cafe culture re-opened during the summer, and that did not seem to lead to any increase in infection rates. Possibly its the UK culture that resulted in our increased infection rates in September, rather than Rishi's attempt to breathe life back into the hospitality sector.

You may be right in your assessment John but I remember at the time thinking it did seem risky to encourage people to eat out so soon after the first wave when many experts were predicting a second wave which could be worse than the first unless we continued to follow restrictions. Had we just opened up hospitality, socially distanced as it was, without giving incentives for people to use it, things may have turned out better. We will never know.

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, Scriv said:

 

I know this is slightly side tracking, but does anyone have any idea which category self catering accommodation like holiday cottages and caravans fit into?

 

 
My understanding, from the holiday cottage booking that we have had cancelled at the end of this month, is that they are effectively governed by travel restrictions and tiers. In other words, if there is a stay at home / essential travel only order in place in either the area that you live or the area that you are visiting, then the booking is cancelled. I don’t believe that they are connected to hotels, which makes sense. Caravans I’m not so sure, given that they are usually in caravan parks with a degree of shared facilities, so more akin to hotels. I stress that the info on holiday cottages has not been gleaned from a government website. I am merely quoting from the notification we received that explained why our booking was cancelled. 

[Son of Anarchy]

39 minutes ago, pete14 said:

You may be right in your assessment John but I remember at the time thinking it did seem risky to encourage people to eat out so soon after the first wave when many experts were predicting a second wave which could be worse than the first unless we continued to follow restrictions. Had we just opened up hospitality, socially distanced as it was, without giving incentives for people to use it, things may have turned out better. We will never know.

We used the Eat Out to Help Out scheme about 7 or 8 times while it was running, plus a couple of few other places that were not part of that scheme - we on holiday at the time.  Several times we ate with people from other households.  

 

Neither The Ole Lady or I contracted Covid,.  Although 3 of our friends did catch covid, that wasn't until January.  They are all in key worker roles and cannot work from home.  In their cases, I doubt they caught Covid due to the EOTHO.  The others we ate/drank with around that time are mostly also key workers who can't work from home.  They didn't get Covid.

 

 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Son of Anarchy said:

We used the Eat Out to Help Out scheme about 7 or 8 times while it was running, plus a couple of few other places that were not part of that scheme - we on holiday at the time.  Several times we ate with people from other households.  

 

Neither The Ole Lady or I contracted Covid,.  Although 3 of our friends did catch covid, that wasn't until January.  They are all in key worker roles and cannot work from home.  In their cases, I doubt they caught Covid due to the EOTHO.  The others we ate/drank with around that time are mostly also key workers who can't work from home.  They didn't get Covid.

 

 

We used a very busy M&S cafe but only once, and neither of us contracted Covid.  Like you I think key workers like shop assistants, waitresses and bus drivers, are all far more likely to catch covid because they are in very regular contact with the general public.

But the experts still say that the vast majority of transmissions, outside of hospitals and care homes, occur in the household setting, and I believe them.

[zap99]

2 hours ago, Son of Anarchy said:

We used the Eat Out to Help Out scheme about 7 or 8 times while it was running, plus a couple of few other places that were not part of that scheme - we on holiday at the time.  Several times we ate with people from other households.  

 

 

 

 

We had 2 separate weeks away in the summer and a couple of weekends. We ate in restaurants about 10 times. The increased infection rate started a good time after that. We can find out more about the effects of easing lockdown soon as Italy did it today and Spain are considering it soon.

Edited February 1, 2021 by zap99