Carnival Restart Information

[kdr69]

Crew is being brought back to select ships according to John Heald so some progress?

 

[Earthworm Jim]

21 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

FL vaccine law issue (TX also did similar I believe)

 

The Texas vaccine passport ban executive order only applies to state agencies and public or private entities receiving public funds. So not cruise companies.

 

https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/press/EO-GA-35_private_health_information_protection_vaccines.pdf

[bigrednole]

1 minute ago, Stallion said:

putting too much stock into a PRELIMINARY Injunction hearing which can be stayed and immediately appealed

The Appeal would go to the FL Supreme Court who determines when it would be heard. The result remains until the appeal is tried. They can make it for November and see if the CDC is even willing to contest it. 

 

My feeling is the CDC is going to get a rude awakening. There is a drastic difference between federal court and science which is not exact. There is little latitude in a court proceeding. All of their science and hand picked data sets become public record and can be analyzed correctly. Look at the "less than 10%" and the more accurate 0.1% infection rate outdoors. That does not play into the hands of a "margin of error". That is gross negligence of withholding information.

[Lee Cruiser]

3 minutes ago, NavyCruiser said:

Great.

We're booked on the Breeze out of Galveston in Sept.

Did Carnival say anything about those 3 cruises requiring 100% vaccination?

Or masks required?

Our Mom's 80+ and don't wanna cruise if it's not 100% vac required.

So what are cancellation & rebooking to future cruises policies if we want to transfer those OBC's...?

Thanks,

No word on vaccine requirements, but masks probably will be required unless the CDC changes its policies. 

[tidecat]

4 minutes ago, NavyCruiser said:

Great.

We're booked on the Breeze out of Galveston in Sept.

Did Carnival say anything about those 3 cruises requiring 100% vaccination?

Or masks required?

Our Mom's 80+ and don't wanna cruise if it's not 100% vac required.

So what are cancellation & rebooking to future cruises policies if we want to transfer those OBC's...?

Thanks,

I'd call to be sure, but if I read it correctly all July cruises can cancel peanlty-free until May 31.

[bigrednole]

4 minutes ago, NavyCruiser said:

Great.

We're booked on the Breeze out of Galveston in Sept.

Did Carnival say anything about those 3 cruises requiring 100% vaccination?

Or masks required?

Our Mom's 80+ and don't wanna cruise if it's not 100% vac required.

So what are cancellation & rebooking to future cruises policies if we want to transfer those OBC's...?

Thanks,

If you cancel the cruise yourself, no OBC's transfer. You used that play card already. There is no guarantee that the cruise will be 100% vaccinated and I don't expect it to be required either (just my opinion). 

[Lee Cruiser]

1 minute ago, bigrednole said:

The Appeal would go to the FL Supreme Court who determines when it would be heard. The result remains until the appeal is tried. They can make it for November and see if the CDC is even willing to contest it.

Is this not a federal case? If so, the Florida Supreme Court wouldn't have anything to do with it. 

[tidecat]

14 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I thought there was some type of 60 day requirement tied to the test cruise unvaccinated path.

The response time for evaluating test cruises has mercifully been trimmed down to 5 days by the CDC. 

[Lee Cruiser]

8 minutes ago, NavyCruiser said:

So what are cancellation & rebooking to future cruises policies if we want to transfer those OBC's...?

Thanks,

OBC typically do not transfer, but they make an exception. 

[Earthworm Jim]

7 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I could ask the same question about announcing a FL/TX restart without having worked out the FL covid vaccine law issue. Who knows? Confidence? Hope? Inside information? Your guess is as good as mine.   

 

The Florida vaccine passport ban law issue isn't about to have a hearing on it tomorrow. The Florida seeking an injunction on the CDC is. That's the difference.

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, tidecat said:

The response time for evaluating test cruises has mercifully been trimmed down to 5 days by the CDC. 

for both vaccinated and unvaccinated?  I thought it was five days for vaccinated.

[Stallion]

7 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

The Appeal would go to the FL Supreme Court who determines when it would be heard. The result remains until the appeal is tried. They can make it for November and see if the CDC is even willing to contest it. 

 

My feeling is the CDC is going to get a rude awakening. There is a drastic difference between federal court and science which is not exact. There is little latitude in a court proceeding. All of their science and hand picked data sets become public record and can be analyzed correctly. Look at the "less than 10%" and the more accurate 0.1% infection rate outdoors. That does not play into the hands of a "margin of error". That is gross negligence of withholding information.

Nope. It would go to the US Court of Appeals for whatever District Miami is in-probably Southern?

Edited May 11, 2021 by Stallion

[bigrednole]

I am not a legal expert, but it is being heard in Tampa. I think the correct path and I can be wrong is it goes to the FL Supreme Court before going to the Supreme Court. Like I said, I could be wrong. If it is to the Supreme Court, that would take far longer to be heard than the FL Supreme Court. Either way, the CDC losing will mean disaster for them.

 

I am sure their legal team has very insane concerns because they have no data to back their claims. The data they provide has to be all of the data and not hand picked pieces to meet a narrative or agenda. The data that is now becoming available has been analyzed by many places and it is blasting crater size holes in the CDC's arguments. Walensky will not be able to sit on the stand and make comments like "from the data we...". She must state emphatically without a margin of error "from this exact data, 100% of everything, it clearly proves X" The problem is she cannot do that and if she attempts to, the CDC can be held liable for losses.

 

[firefly333]

31 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I don't know, that "information on July startup" seems pretty unworkable to me (as written). Then there is the FL vaccine law issue (TX also did similar I believe) that has yet to be worked out (why announce this before that has been worked out). Plus a favorable judge and a few envelopes on the back nine may help them see things clearer. The big dogs play by different rules. 😉 

I think it's been stated many time the florida law cant control interstate and will have no effect on cruises, even if florida doesnt like it. There was a vaccinated flight yesterday I think, from florida to New York which proves it does not affect interstate if you need proof. 

 

And texas law also does not affect businesses other than ones that get state funding. Like colleges cant require vaccinations.  Wouldnt affect my vista cruise one bit. 

 

I think all the headlines to the contrary are click bait. 

[tidecat]

1 minute ago, TNcruising02 said:

for both vaccinated and unvaccinated?  I thought it was five days for vaccinated.

It's for test cruises period. Test cruises can be bypassed only if the crew (98%) and passenger (95%) vaccination thresholds are met

[cruisingguy007]

2 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

The Florida vaccine passport ban law issue isn't about to have a hearing on it tomorrow. The Florida seeking an injunction on the CDC is. That's the difference.

 

I understand that. Not sure what your point was. 

[bigrednole]

1 minute ago, Stallion said:

Nope. It would go to the US Appellate Court for whatever District Miami is in-probably Southern?

Thanks for clarifying. Still nothing that would be heard in FL until well after it expires.

[Earthworm Jim]

13 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

The CDC had another bombshell dropped on them that they will now have to answer to as well. It is their claim of less than 10% infection rate in outdoors.

 

 

I'm not familiar with the news you are referring to, but a 10% infection rate would be outrageously high. The highest infection rate in the nation is New Mexico at 1.04%.

[TNcruising02]

3 minutes ago, tidecat said:

It's for test cruises period. Test cruises can be bypassed only if the crew (98%) and passenger (95%) vaccination thresholds are met

Thanks!  Ok, so that's good that it may only take 5 days for evaluations, although I have my doubts it can happen that quickly.  The CDC seems to be in no hurry to allow cruising.

[Stallion]

if it was originally filed in US District Court of Tampa it would be appealable to whatever US Court of Appeals that governs Tampa. Eastern District? I don't practice in Florida

[bigrednole]

Just now, Earthworm Jim said:

 

I'm not familiar with the news you are referring to, but a 10% infection rate would be outrageously high. The highest infection rate in the nation is New Mexico at 1.04%.

NYT posted an article that the CDC claims "less than 10% infection rate outdoors". This is a numerically correct statement, but the factual data is it is less than 0.1% per the data they use. But, they don't want to say that because it doesn't meet the narrative nor the media agenda. If they said for the last 12 months that the infection rate outdoors is 0.1% what do you think the entire country would have been doing? It is gross negligence to use data this inappropriately.

[bigrednole]

Just now, Stallion said:

if it was originally filed in US District Court of Tampa it would be appealable to whatever US Court of Appeals that governs Tampa. Eastern District? I don't practice in Florida

I don't know where it goes, but you are more familiar with it than me. It will go to some appeals court and the date for hearing will be well after cruising starts with no restrictions what-so-ever. 

[Lee Cruiser]

1 minute ago, TNcruising02 said:

Thanks!  Ok, so that's good that it may only take 5 days for evaluations, although I have my doubts it can happen that quickly.  The CDC seems to be in no hurry to allow cruising.

I think the five days was their promise (CDC) to make a decision on the test cruises submitted. It was previously 60 days. They are feeling the heat from numerous fronts to allow cruises in some fashion. 

[Earthworm Jim]

3 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I understand that. Not sure what your point was. 

 

I asked if the announcement was in anticipation of a favorable court ruling tomorrow as you surmised, why wouldn't they just wait until tomorrow.

 

You said one could ask the same question about the vaccine passport ban.

 

I'm saying, no, you really can't ask the same question about the vaccine passport ban because the vaccine passport isn't on the verge of being heard in court as the injunction case is.

 

If that's still not clear to you, I don't know what to tell you.

[cruisingguy007]

2 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

I asked if the announcement was in anticipation of a favorable court ruling tomorrow as you surmised, why wouldn't they just wait until tomorrow.

 

You said one could ask the same question about the vaccine passport ban.

 

I'm saying, no, you really can't ask the same question about the vaccine passport ban because the vaccine passport isn't on the verge of being heard in court as the injunction case is.

 

If that's still not clear to you, I don't know what to tell you.

 

I've answered that, if you don't find it satisfactory then I don't know what to tell you.