Carnival Restart Information

[Stallion]

6 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

I don't know where it goes, but you are more familiar with it than me. It will go to some appeals court and the date for hearing will be well after cruising starts with no restrictions what-so-ever. 

If the Court of Appeals grants an application for immediate appeal (which I believe they would because its an important matter of national interest concerning public health in a pandemic). Both lower court and appellate court would have to consider whether to stay the District Court order too

Edited May 11, 2021 by Stallion

[cruisingguy007]

4 minutes ago, Lee Cruiser said:

I think the five days was their promise (CDC) to make a decision on the test cruises submitted. It was previously 60 days. They are feeling the heat from numerous fronts to allow cruises in some fashion. 

 

Where is this 5 days coming from? I thought they were waiting on clarification (so called part 3) on what these test cruises would entail?  

[cruisingguy007]

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/ti-simulated-voyages-cso.html

 

Looks like 2-7 days 

 

• Simulated voyages must be between 2-7 days in length with a least one overnight stay[2] to test the efficacy of the cruise ship operator’s ability to mitigate the risk of COVID-19 onboard the cruise ship, including through embarkation, disembarkation, and post-disembarkation testing.

 

[2] To fully test all procedures during a simulated voyage, CDC recommends a minimum voyage length of 3 days with 2 overnight stays.

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[ontheweb]

30 minutes ago, Stallion said:

putting too much stock into a PRELIMINARY Injunction hearing which can be stayed and immediately appealed

I think people have an all together inaccurate expectation of how courts work. They take their time, and whichever side loses more often than not files an appeal.

[Lee Cruiser]

10 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Where is this 5 days coming from? I thought they were waiting on clarification (so called part 3) on what these test cruises would entail?  

"CDC will respond to submissions within 5 business days. CDC expects to quickly approve applications that are both complete and accurate."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/ti-simulated-voyages-cso.html

[cruisingguy007]

Also interesting. I suspect this will apply when cruises resume as well. 

 

In addition, if a simulated voyage is ended early due to the above threshold being met or exceeded during the simulation, the cruise ship operator will have to repeat the simulated voyage at a later date. If the threshold for the voyage is met or exceeded during the simulation, the cruise ship operator will also have to advise all travelers to avoid commercial air travel or ground transportation for 14-days post voyage, unless they have one of the following:

• Proof of being fully vaccinated against COVID-19 using an S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized vaccine or a vaccine product that has received emergency use listing from the World Health Organization (WHO), or
• Documentation of recovery from COVID-19 in the past 90 days, which includes the following:
  • Paper or electronic copies of their previous positive viral test result (dated no more than 90 days ago), and
  • A signed letter, on official letterhead that contains the name, address, and phone number of a licensed healthcare provider or public health official, stating that the traveler has been cleared to end isolation and therefore can travel. A letter that states that they have been cleared to end isolation to return to work or school is also acceptable. The letter does not have to specifically mention travel.

[stobe1]

Here is the email I received today. 

[Stallion]

I think it would be funny if the District Court held that Florida's Application for Temporary Injunction was moot because Florida has passed a law that prohibits use of vaccination cards/passports to meet the CDC's reasonable protocols for intial testing cruises-so the relief requested by Florida is only a request for an advisory opinion. Court might or might not decide to use its discretion to consider the applications of Alaska and Texas because those applications should be more properly brought in different jurisdictions/venues

 

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Stallion

[Tapi]

Out of curiosity, I priced out these 3 Carnival ships for July for my family of 4. Without airfare, all are more expensive than what it would cost me to fly to Nassau and sail on Adventure of the Seas. Horizon would be the closest to "break even". And the question still remains whether my kids (under the age of 12) will be allowed to sail unvaccinated....

 

Stay tuned....! 

[cruisingguy007]

1 minute ago, Stallion said:

I think it would be funny if the District Court held that Florida's Application for Temporary Injunction was moot because Florida has passed a law that prohibits use of vaccination cards/passports to meet the CDC's reasonable protocols for intial testing cruises-so the relief requested by Florida is only a request for an advisory opinion. Court might or might not decide to use its discretion to consider the applications of Alaska and Texas because those application should be brought in different venues

 

 

 

Some believe FL has no standing already. 

[Stallion]

1 minute ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Some believe FL has no standing already. 

True

Standing will be the first issue for the Court to consider. Without standing, the Court has no jurisdiction to consider ANY of the matters raised by Florida

[Lee Cruiser]

21 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

Also interesting. I suspect this will apply when cruises resume as well. 

 

In addition, if a simulated voyage is ended early due to the above threshold being met or exceeded during the simulation, the cruise ship operator will have to repeat the simulated voyage at a later date. If the threshold for the voyage is met or exceeded during the simulation, the cruise ship operator will also have to advise all travelers to avoid commercial air travel or ground transportation for 14-days post voyage, unless they have one of the following:

• Proof of being fully vaccinated against COVID-19 using an S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized vaccine or a vaccine product that has received emergency use listing from the World Health Organization (WHO), or
• Documentation of recovery from COVID-19 in the past 90 days, which includes the following:
  • Paper or electronic copies of their previous positive viral test result (dated no more than 90 days ago), and
  • A signed letter, on official letterhead that contains the name, address, and phone number of a licensed healthcare provider or public health official, stating that the traveler has been cleared to end isolation and therefore can travel. A letter that states that they have been cleared to end isolation to return to work or school is also acceptable. The letter does not have to specifically mention travel.

Once again the key component of avoiding having to quarantine  or miss flights appears to be vaccination.

 

"Proof of being fully vaccinated against COVID-19 using an S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized vaccine or a vaccine product that has received emergency use listing from the World Health Organization (WHO),"

[Earthworm Jim]

37 minutes ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I've answered that, if you don't find it satisfactory then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

You've answered what? There was no question involved. And if there had been a question you saying you don't understand my point hardly qualifies as an answer anyway. It's asking for an explanation, which I gave as you requested, and then you gave the nonsensical response '"I've answered that"

 

I give up. You don't make any sense.

[TNcruising02]

6 minutes ago, Lee Cruiser said:

Once again the key component of avoiding having to quarantine  or miss flights appears to be vaccination.

 

"Proof of being fully vaccinated against COVID-19 using an S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized vaccine or a vaccine product that has received emergency use listing from the World Health Organization (WHO),"

I'm not sure why a negative covid test could not be one of the options too.  I think quarantining for 14 days is a bit much for someone who may test negative for covid and will fly home.  Again, it's another unnecessary hurdle when a negative covid test should suffice.

 

If we ever get to cruise from the US, we plan on putting our vaccination cards with our passports.

Edited May 11, 2021 by TNcruising02

[cruisingguy007]

1 minute ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

You've answered what? There was no question involved. And if there had been a question you saying you don't understand my point hardly qualifies as an answer anyway. It's asking for an explanation, which I gave as you requested, and then you gave the nonsensical response '"I've answered that"

 

I give up. You don't make any sense.

 

Good. I can't help you with your reading comprehension. Sorry.  

[cruisingguy007]

7 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I'm not sure why a negative covid test could not be one of the options too.  I think quarantining for 14 days is a bit much for someone who may test negative for covid and will fly home.  Again, it's another unnecessary hurdle when a negative covid test should suffice.

 

If we ever get to cruise from the US, we plan on putting our vaccination cards with our passports.

 

I think the thinking is that you may not test positive but exposure is enough take the extra precaution unless you have been fully vaccinated or have had a covid recovery within 90 days. So they are essentially saying you can get 3 months of protection with a natural infection as well. This may prevent some taking a cruise unvaccinated. That would be a pain to deal with. My buddy got covid in IL at a training and couldn't fly home either (said he was put on no fly list). Had to rent a car and drive back, staying in hotels along the way. Not sure if they are still doing this but if something like a threshold is triggered, I imagine there would be some extra scrutiny.   

Edited May 11, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[Homosassa]

DeSantis and Moody - a team made in heaven and with a history for filing losing lawsuits, but  - hey!! - the political posturing is worth its weight in gold among a small segment of the population.

 

The case tomorrow will be dismissed as Florida has no standing.

 

If a Carnival ship sails from Florida on July 4, it will be under the 95/98% vaccination option.

 

 

[CI66774]

1 hour ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

If that was the case, why wouldn't they just hold this announcement until tomorrow and see what the result of the hearing way before saying anything?

The hearing only is the beginning in terms of litigation. Unless the parties come to some acceptable compromise, nothing is resolved after tomorrow.

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, bigrednole said:

FL, TX, AK lawsuit against the CDC and injunction on the CSO.

Oh don't tell them that!  They are already in the end zone celebrating.  You are just spoiling things. 😉

[harkinmr]

2 hours ago, Lee Cruiser said:

Is this not a federal case? If so, the Florida Supreme Court wouldn't have anything to do with it. 

 

2 hours ago, bigrednole said:

I am not a legal expert, but it is being heard in Tampa. I think the correct path and I can be wrong is it goes to the FL Supreme Court before going to the Supreme Court. Like I said, I could be wrong. If it is to the Supreme Court, that would take far longer to be heard than the FL Supreme Court. Either way, the CDC losing will mean disaster for them.

 

I am sure their legal team has very insane concerns because they have no data to back their claims. The data they provide has to be all of the data and not hand picked pieces to meet a narrative or agenda. The data that is now becoming available has been analyzed by many places and it is blasting crater size holes in the CDC's arguments. Walensky will not be able to sit on the stand and make comments like "from the data we...". She must state emphatically without a margin of error "from this exact data, 100% of everything, it clearly proves X" The problem is she cannot do that and if she attempts to, the CDC can be held liable for losses.

 

Ok, first of all, this case is in federal court.  An appeal will not go to the Florida Supreme Court.  It will go the the Federal Court of Appeals for the relevant circuit.  Second of all, there is not going to be any live testimony for this hearing.  The parties have agreed that the court will be making a decision based solely on the briefs and evidence delivered to the court by each side.  So anyone hoping for any spectacular courtroom drama ain't going to get it.

Edited May 11, 2021 by harkinmr

[bigrednole]

If it is based off what each side has given, then the CDC has already lost. They have no facts or data. Their hypotheses are based off misinformation or hand picked information to meet a narrative. 

[CI66774]

57 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

DeSantis and Moody - a team made in heaven and with a history for filing losing lawsuits, but  - hey!! - the political posturing is worth its weight in gold among a small segment of the population.

 

The case tomorrow will be dismissed as Florida has no standing.

 

If a Carnival ship sails from Florida on July 4, it will be under the 95/98% vaccination option.

 

 

Small segment? Think again.

[cruisingguy007]

2 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

If it is based off what each side has given, then the CDC has already lost. They have no facts or data. Their hypotheses are based off misinformation or hand picked information to meet a narrative. 

 

I think it's more interpretation of powers. They thought they could do the eviction moratorium based on some old interpretation of the law and that didn't go so well for them either. It will be interesting to see if this will also be considered overreach of authority as well. 

[harkinmr]

6 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

If it is based off what each side has given, then the CDC has already lost. They have no facts or data. Their hypotheses are based off misinformation or hand picked information to meet a narrative. 

And you know this how??

[bigrednole]

False information, hand picking data instead of all of it, providing guidance for an agenda, the list can go on and on. Research has proven the CDC wrong. The world has proved them wrong. They have even proven themselves wrong. Just a little advice and take off the brainwashing goggles and open your eyes to reality.