Natural immunity and no vaccine shot

[ilikeanswers]

6 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Why should people be suspicious?  Could it be that the very notion of developing a vaccine this quickly was derided as delusional?  Or that we were being told it would take years to develop a vaccine and that it would take a miracle for it to happen faster?  Or that prominent politicians, including a future VP, were saying they wouldn't take a vaccine developed under the then administration?

When "the science" turns on a dime in lockstep with political developments, people are naturally suspicious.  Look at the 180* turnaround on whether vaccinated people need to wear masks due to "evolving" science.  And how so many "follow the science" folks were outraged by that and vowed to remain masked.

Very little of this has to do with actual science and everything to do with politics.

 

To be fair as I pointed out it takes a certain set of conditions to fast track vaccine development so I think it was fair caution to tell the public not to get too excited about a vaccine. Even I was skeptical cause if you look at the more recent history of vaccine development so easily does the research get dropped🙄. Even during the Ebola epidemic it took lots of political pressure to get pharmaceutical companies to complete the development of the vaccine. A pandemic is a unique situation that no politician in the developed world would have any experience and in the less developed those politicians know how difficult it can be to get pharmaceutical companies to assist in an epidemic and at the beginning of the pandemic apart from Moderna most pharmaceutical companies weren't really jumping at the chance to make a Covid-19 vaccine. In my opinion the scepticism was warranted. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by ilikeanswers

[navybankerteacher]

5 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Your last sentence is the problem. 

 

I know someone who is frightened of the vaccine.  It is irrational but the fear is real.  The difference is she is responsible for her actions.  She understands her situation and is prepared to remain isolated and take precautions to protect herself and others until such a time as the pandemic is no longer an issue.    We all hope she will change her mind about the vaccine so she can join us in travel.  But I suspect she will wait years before boarding a plane if that is what is needed.       

I have a (perhaps unrealistic) faith in human nature that leads me to think that, given enough evidence, even profoundly misguided people can learn and give up behavior patterns which hurt them (and sometimes others).   After all — the common belief some 529 years ago was that the Earth was flat.  Enough evidence has convinced a very large number of people that the Earth is actually a spheroid.

 

The more intelligent people are, the greater the likelihood that they will learn something in their lifetimes.  Since we are in an “Information Age” there is grounds for hope that a critical mass (herd immunity in the context of COVID) can be achieved in our lifetimes rather than in half a millennium.

[ilikeanswers]

18 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

 After all — the common belief some 529 years ago was that the Earth was flat.  

 

That is pretty much a myth, by Middle Ages it was well established the Earth was spherical. The fact that in our present day the flat earth theory bacame a growing movement is what makes it a little disturbing😬. But then I suppose it is not much different to the rise of any conspiracy theory movement, like Qanon, it is practically a new religion😳. 

[SelectSys]

On 5/16/2021 at 5:32 PM, mayleeman said:

I am glad Big Pharma has a huge incentive to anticipate the plagues of the future.

I am not sure how they are going to do this.   Having a good toolset in place to react quickly seems to be a good approach.  The mRNA delivery technique seems to support this although the resulting product is a bit fragile for delivery to some areas.  

 

On 5/16/2021 at 5:38 PM, mom says said:

Or perhaps you are trying to say that pharmaceutical  companies should not be allowed to make a profit from the drugs they manufacture and sell?

Nope, but I do think about the patent protection afforded to Big Pharma and their ability to set prices without too much restraint in the US is a point of concern.  I believe Canada is different in this regard but I don't know.   This is especially true for vaccines where so much government money went in to support their development. 

 

23 hours ago, ldubs said:

I don't think Amazon should be blamed for having a 21st century business model

I am not blaming them for anything.  I am simply pointing out a fact.  If their market power gets excessive, then government might take a look.  

 

7 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I suppose the makers of bandaids, fire engines, ambulances and smoke detectors fall into the category of businesses (like pharma) which make their livings by responding to calamities

Bad comparison - these manufactures don't enjoy big government support making their products possible nor do their products receive much in the way of patent protection.

 

8 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

When "the science" turns on a dime in lockstep with political developments, people are naturally suspicious.  Look at the 180* turnaround on whether vaccinated people need to wear masks due to "evolving" science.  And how so many "follow the science" folks were outraged by that and vowed to remain masked.

Very little of this has to do with actual science and everything to do with politics.

I think the politicization of everything is a real problem these days.  The CDC director went from impending doom to take off your mask in 6 weeks.   Are politics involved? 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/cdc-director-warns-impending-doom-covid-cases-rise-n1262355

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/cdc-ease-mask-guidance-vaccinated-people-sources-2021-05-13/

 

Remember, even Fauci told the public a "white lie" to preserve masks for health workers.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/502890-fauci-why-the-public-wasnt-told-to-wear-masks

 

I guess the "ends justify the means" even if the gyrations have the unintended consequence (I assume it's unintended) to lower public trust in government institutions.

 

7 hours ago, ldubs said:

 anti-vaxxer nonsense and the PC rules that say I'm supposed to pretend they are free to have their own reality

It all stems from the 60's culture and mantra - do your own thing!  The Boomers institutionalized selfishness. 

 

5 hours ago, hallux said:

They interviewed someone that had been in several places without a mask, and openly (and proudly) admitted on camera that he is not vaccinated...

Perhaps they are in the running for a "Darwin award?"

 

23 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

To me there is no denying that when the money starts rolling in and people take serious interest everything moves a lot faster.

It does motivate people incredibly well!

[cruisemom42]

37 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

 

 

It does motivate people incredibly well!

 

I'm not sure it's quite fair to say "greed", at least not if you are going to imply it is somehow more common or universal among big Pharma.  Greed is very different than seeking to make a profit on one's work. 

 

Sure, you have the bad players like Martin Shkreli. But for every Shkreli you also have a lot of decent players whose work is motivated by saving lives and improving health.

 

US government funding for research has not kept pace with the need. The NIH's investment power has actually diminished in recent years, in effect reducing the dollars available for funding new research. And NIH used to be the primary funder of basic research. Who is going to fill the gap?  We reap what we sow.

 

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

Bad comparison - these manufactures don't enjoy big government support making their products possible nor do their products receive much in the way of patent protection.

 

Hmmm.  Fire apparatus is funded by tax dollars.  Safety products, like smoke detectors, are mandated by law, which is an indirect kind of gov't support.   Of course, the COVID emergency response is in a class of its own and deserving of significant gov't support.    

 

Quote

 

It all stems from the 60's culture and mantra - do your own thing!  The Boomers institutionalized selfishness. 

 

Aw, the 60's.   "Do your own thing" was about alternate lifestyles.  It certainly jump started some new awareness and ideas.   Would that include ignoring science and not doing your part during a pandemic -- maybe --  IDK.   But I am surprised you consider selfishness to be a product of the Boomer generation.  If asked which generation is the most selfish, I doubt boomers would win the vote -- just sayin.  

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by ldubs
repeat repeat

[ilikeanswers]

6 hours ago, SelectSys said:

It does motivate people incredibly well!

 

If the Ebola vaccine had been completed earlier we could have prevented the outbreak in the Western African nations. Waiting till it is a profitable situation isn't necessarily the right solution for all problems. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by ilikeanswers

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I have a (perhaps unrealistic) faith in human nature that leads me to think that, given enough evidence, even profoundly misguided people can learn and give up behavior patterns which hurt them (and sometimes others).   After all — the common belief some 529 years ago was that the Earth was flat.  Enough evidence has convinced a very large number of people that the Earth is actually a spheroid.

 

The more intelligent people are, the greater the likelihood that they will learn something in their lifetimes.  Since we are in an “Information Age” there is grounds for hope that a critical mass (herd immunity in the context of COVID) can be achieved in our lifetimes rather than in half a millennium.

Unfortunately, the information age has also led to a wide availability of misinformation. I t allows those with misconceptions to have "proof" that they are right.

[DirtyDawg]

57 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Unfortunately, the information age has also led to a wide availability of misinformation. I t allows those with misconceptions to have "proof" that they are right.

It is also not just fellow numskulls feeding misinformation back and forth to each other. Let's just say, Joseph Goebbels would have loved our information age.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by DirtyDawg

[navybankerteacher]

8 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

That is pretty much a myth, by Middle Ages it was well established the Earth was spherical. The fact that in our present day the flat earth theory bacame a growing movement is what makes it a little disturbing😬. But then I suppose it is not much different to the rise of any conspiracy theory movement, like Qanon, it is practically a new religion😳. 

What you refer to as what was "well established"  by the Middle Ages was actually knowledge held by a very few.  In a world where witchcraft was widely seen as the cause of illness, bad harvests, etc. the sort of awareness which we think of as knowledge was limited to a very small percentage of the population - the educated very few whose life involved more than scratching out a meager existence.

 

The many millions of peasants who, being illiterate, left no hard record of their ignorance -- it was the less than 5% who had the leisure to think who had such understanding --- as well as the ability to leave traces of that understanding.

 

But I agree with your concern about the growing lunacy among the conspiracy theorists ---- there may, in fact, be substance in the theory that only a finite amount of intelligence was created by the big bang which brought our present universe into being -- meaning that, as world population grows, human intelligence is more thinly distributed.  Fortunately, it is not absolutely equally distributed.

[Anita Latte]

I know I'm going to regret writing this but I just can't stop thinking about what I would like to say and so...here I go...

 

I find it very disheartening to read all the judgements and condemnation that people have for anyone that thinks differently than themselves and how the automatic reason for that other person, whose thinking is so clearly wrong is so obviously an idiot, a candidate for a Darwin award, or some other negative. Because clearly, anyone who thinks differently than yourself is to be hated upon until you can bash them in the head enough to get them to change their personal beliefs and viewpoints to your own.

 

I do not participate in any social media. No FB. No birds. No instas. I seek out news from several different news sources, including international sources if I can access them and I will spend hours doing research...I love research. My degree is marketing and so I'm well aware of all the different ways that communications can be manipulated to make you think you have read one thing when you have really read something not quite what you think you did. I'm also aware of the reality of the phenomenon where people have a tendency to remember information but rather quickly forget the source...so when someone first reads or hears some tidbit, they may or may not immediately believe the information because they may or may not trust the source...but then, as time goes on, they forget where/how they heard something...and that filter that used to exist that assigned a trust factor to the source is gone...and now they are faced with information and need to decide all over again if they believe what they've heard.

 

I believe that all the men and women who are "running" the "pandemic response" are simply men and women...doing the best they can...hopefully they are educated enough on the topics that are pertinent to their assignment and hopefully they are clear and logical and maybe even touched by some divine inspiration as they go about their work... But I went to college and I know how people act in college and post college and in general...and quite frankly, I don't happen to have a lot of trust in the knowledge that people think they know...even having gone through extensive education, where they may or may not have actually learned, let alone remember everything they were exposed to. They are simply men and women. They will make mistakes. AND they will have successes. Time tells which is which.

 

I am not vaccinated. I am not an antivaxx person. But I am not one to jump quickly into any situation that will affect me for the rest of my life. There are many things in this world that you can "do over" but vaccinations...direct injection of lab sourced chemicals into your body...you can't undo that. And despite what people think about the longevity of the effectiveness of a vaccine, once those chemicals are inside you, whatever they do, it's quite possible that it cannot be undone. Only time will tell if what the vaccines do is truly 100% without negative consequence. 

 

The mRNA vaccines are a brand new vaccine technology. They have been in the works for years, I know...it just isn't every year that you have a need for a vaccine let alone conditions that are conducive to test them. I'm sure that however horrific the pandemic is, there are scientists and others that are as equally excited in their own way for such an event...finally, the thing that they have been preparing for has arrived. I am grateful that there are people out there that were/are willing to risk their very lives OR even more precarious, their fitness for life as they now have it, which could be irrevocably damaged, to participate in the early trials of the vaccines. 

 

I am very grateful for all the millions of people who are participating in what I consider to be Phase 4 trials, which is the vaccines going public. Now we really get to see what is happening with the vaccines...if only we could get any believable information about it. But sadly, believable information is in short supply...I don't really believe anyone is offering straight up truth without the taint of an agenda...and I don't know everyone's agenda...but I am positive that everyone has one.

 

My agenda in writing this is to give voice to anyone like me that is simply waiting to see what is happening in these Phase 4 trials. I have two things that are personally of concern to me and my body chemistry and how it might react to the vaccines. The first is a blood clotting issue. Since the day I was born...my birthmark is a group of broken blood vessels and blood clots on the inside of my knee. For most of my life it hasn't bothered me, but a while back it changed and so I revisited it and have MRIs done and all that and basically, there was no known reason for what I was experiencing. I could get it all "removed" which would have all sorts of fun consequences or I could learn to deal. So I deal...but the whole blood clotting scenario and the fact that it is not typical blood clotting, but a weird low platelet level blood clotting...well...that makes me nervous. I feel like I walk around with a weird blood clotting issue...so not feeling super confident in doing something that has the chance for a weird blood clotting issue. And yes, I buy Powerball/Megamillions tickets frequently so I absolutely believe that I could be that ONE in whatever. I had thought to myself that the J&J vaxx would be more comfortable for me..."old school"...but the blood clotting hits too close to home. I'm not willing to risk it.

 

And the second health concern is having a family history of autoimmune disorders. The recommendation for those with a history of autoimmunity is to get the vaccine because COVID is worse than the known side effects of the vaccine but to be aware that there isn't any real information on what the vaccine does to people with autoimmunity. So, roll the dice in favor of choosing to inject yourself right now for who knows what all will happen OR continue to live your life with precautions and risk the possibility that you will get COVID, which had a less than 2% death rate in the US when last I looked. 

 

I am well aware of long COVID. I am well aware of lasting affects from having COVID. I am well aware that death may be a blessing to some of the long term affects of COVID. But getting COVID and having severe COVID are not a sure thing...but taking the vaccine IS a sure thing...an immediate decision...and I am willing to continue to live my life as I have been while I wait.

 

I've been wearing masks since before they were recommended. The fact that masks exist at all was proof enough for me of the common sense of wearing them. I don't linger indoors. I do go indoors...but I'm intentional...I don't feel the need to run in and out...but I don't just look around like I might have in the past. At the beginning of the pandemic, I set myself up and have continued to set my life up in such a way that I can do everything that I want to do with common sense precautions and basically, that life is a good life for me. For the time being.

 

I have a deadline by which I will make a decision. My son studies in London. He is in his second year...and I will want to go to the UK for his graduation. I will share...my son will be coming home again to visit this summer (we brought him home last March until August when he went back) and he is eager to get the vaccines. In his words, "There's a pandemic? You've got a vaccine for that? Sign me up for that sh*t." He's a very healthy 20-year old.

 

And I have no problems with him getting the vaccine. It feels weird that he will get it before I do...but he actually needs to get it. It's not as much of a choice for him with his current life. It will be interesting to see how he does frankly because no one else in my blood line has gotten the vaccine. Everyone is waiting. My pushing 90-years Grandma is opting out. My parents are opting out. I have no siblings. My parents don't have blood related siblings. 

 

I don't fault anyone for wanting to get the vaccine. And I don't fault anyone for not wanting to get the vaccine. The best we can do in this life is to live it by a standard, a criteria for doing what you do, and trying our best to stay true to that standard. I am a believer. I could spout out scriptures referring to living life according to faith...how everyone should be following that personal belief path because it is straying from that path/belief/standard that is the true sin. People can change their own mind but bullying someone or pressuring someone isn't the way to do it. 

 

Flame away, I suppose...but I just really wanted to share my viewpoint. It is not based on conspiracy theories. It is not based on misinformation. It is based on me...the way I live my life. If you were to look at my life and the way that I do everything in it, you would see that my current choices are right in line with my standard of living. Vaccine hesitancy is not a new concept...it goes way back. Time is generally what works best to change people's actions.

[ColeThornton]

Edited.

 

😞

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by ColeThornton

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

What you refer to as what was "well established"  by the Middle Ages was actually knowledge held by a very few.  In a world where witchcraft was widely seen as the cause of illness, bad harvests, etc. the sort of awareness which we think of as knowledge was limited to a very small percentage of the population - the educated very few whose life involved more than scratching out a meager existence.

 

The many millions of peasants who, being illiterate, left no hard record of their ignorance -- it was the less than 5% who had the leisure to think who had such understanding --- as well as the ability to leave traces of that understanding.

 

Churches talked about a global Earth and nearly everyone attended mass back then, public art depicted spherical Earths, illiterate workers in the shipping industry would have been exposed to the idea of a globe. You would have to have lived as hermit in the middle of nowhere to avoid the information. Besides the elite believed in witchcraft along with a spherical Earth so the two can co exist. 

 

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

But I agree with your concern about the growing lunacy among the conspiracy theorists ---- there may, in fact, be substance in the theory that only a finite amount of intelligence was created by the big bang which brought our present universe into being -- meaning that, as world population grows, human intelligence is more thinly distributed.  Fortunately, it is not absolutely equally distributed.

 

You are assuming conspiracy theories have anything to do with intelligence when usually it is about having a sense of control and elitism. Being a person who knows something no one else understands and having a theory you can bend to your will. It is addictive like gambling or alcohol. Might not be good for you but gives you a great hit of dopamine. 

[Hlitner]

Getting back to the original topic, there is still a lot of disagreement about whether those with natural immunity (previously had COVID) should get vaccinated.  As usual I am obsessed with avoiding agendas and dealing with facts.  So folks that think they have natural immunity and were never tested positive for COVID may not have even had COVID!  But what if they did have COVID?  That is kind of interesting.  Natural immunity does work for a time (some studies say at least 8 months).  But the interesting news comes from Peru where they are now experiencing a 2nd surge with many folks contracting COVID for a 2nd time.  Why?  The Peru authorities think this is happening because of relatively new variant that has come to their country through Brazil.  Apparently Natural Immunity is not very effective against different variants.  But the vaccinated folks seem to be doing quite fine so this is a situation where being vaccinated seems to have some advantages over natural immunity.

 

Hank

[wowzz]

13 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

The more intelligent people are, the greater the likelihood that they will learn something in their lifetimes.  Since we are in an “Information Age” there is grounds for hope that a critical mass (herd immunity in the context of COVID) can be achieved in our lifetimes rather than in half a millennium.

But some people still don't believe in evolution - stupidity is alas, still alive and well in many people. 

[ilikeanswers]

53 minutes ago, Anita Latte said:

direct injection of lab sourced chemicals into your body

 

Nothing is "lab sourced". The definition of source is where something originates from. Labs can distill, isolate, cultivate etc but they can't source. Nothing originates from a lab, things are brought into labs to be used. In the end everything comes from nature 😉. 

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Anita Latte said:

I know I'm going to regret writing this but I just can't stop thinking about what I would like to say and so...here I go...

 

I find it very disheartening to read all the judgements and condemnation that people have for anyone that thinks differently than themselves and how the automatic reason for that other person, whose thinking is so clearly wrong is so obviously an idiot, a candidate for a Darwin award, or some other negative. Because clearly, anyone who thinks differently than yourself is to be hated upon until you can bash them in the head enough to get them to change their personal beliefs and viewpoints to your own.

 

I do not participate in any social media. No FB. No birds. No instas. I seek out news from several different news sources, including international sources if I can access them and I will spend hours doing research...I love research. My degree is marketing and so I'm well aware of all the different ways that communications can be manipulated to make you think you have read one thing when you have really read something not quite what you think you did. I'm also aware of the reality of the phenomenon where people have a tendency to remember information but rather quickly forget the source...so when someone first reads or hears some tidbit, they may or may not immediately believe the information because they may or may not trust the source...but then, as time goes on, they forget where/how they heard something...and that filter that used to exist that assigned a trust factor to the source is gone...and now they are faced with information and need to decide all over again if they believe what they've heard.

 

I believe that all the men and women who are "running" the "pandemic response" are simply men and women...doing the best they can...hopefully they are educated enough on the topics that are pertinent to their assignment and hopefully they are clear and logical and maybe even touched by some divine inspiration as they go about their work... But I went to college and I know how people act in college and post college and in general...and quite frankly, I don't happen to have a lot of trust in the knowledge that people think they know...even having gone through extensive education, where they may or may not have actually learned, let alone remember everything they were exposed to. They are simply men and women. They will make mistakes. AND they will have successes. Time tells which is which.

 

I am not vaccinated. I am not an antivaxx person. But I am not one to jump quickly into any situation that will affect me for the rest of my life. There are many things in this world that you can "do over" but vaccinations...direct injection of lab sourced chemicals into your body...you can't undo that. And despite what people think about the longevity of the effectiveness of a vaccine, once those chemicals are inside you, whatever they do, it's quite possible that it cannot be undone. Only time will tell if what the vaccines do is truly 100% without negative consequence. 

 

The mRNA vaccines are a brand new vaccine technology. They have been in the works for years, I know...it just isn't every year that you have a need for a vaccine let alone conditions that are conducive to test them. I'm sure that however horrific the pandemic is, there are scientists and others that are as equally excited in their own way for such an event...finally, the thing that they have been preparing for has arrived. I am grateful that there are people out there that were/are willing to risk their very lives OR even more precarious, their fitness for life as they now have it, which could be irrevocably damaged, to participate in the early trials of the vaccines. 

 

I am very grateful for all the millions of people who are participating in what I consider to be Phase 4 trials, which is the vaccines going public. Now we really get to see what is happening with the vaccines...if only we could get any believable information about it. But sadly, believable information is in short supply...I don't really believe anyone is offering straight up truth without the taint of an agenda...and I don't know everyone's agenda...but I am positive that everyone has one.

 

My agenda in writing this is to give voice to anyone like me that is simply waiting to see what is happening in these Phase 4 trials. I have two things that are personally of concern to me and my body chemistry and how it might react to the vaccines. The first is a blood clotting issue. Since the day I was born...my birthmark is a group of broken blood vessels and blood clots on the inside of my knee. For most of my life it hasn't bothered me, but a while back it changed and so I revisited it and have MRIs done and all that and basically, there was no known reason for what I was experiencing. I could get it all "removed" which would have all sorts of fun consequences or I could learn to deal. So I deal...but the whole blood clotting scenario and the fact that it is not typical blood clotting, but a weird low platelet level blood clotting...well...that makes me nervous. I feel like I walk around with a weird blood clotting issue...so not feeling super confident in doing something that has the chance for a weird blood clotting issue. And yes, I buy Powerball/Megamillions tickets frequently so I absolutely believe that I could be that ONE in whatever. I had thought to myself that the J&J vaxx would be more comfortable for me..."old school"...but the blood clotting hits too close to home. I'm not willing to risk it.

 

And the second health concern is having a family history of autoimmune disorders. The recommendation for those with a history of autoimmunity is to get the vaccine because COVID is worse than the known side effects of the vaccine but to be aware that there isn't any real information on what the vaccine does to people with autoimmunity. So, roll the dice in favor of choosing to inject yourself right now for who knows what all will happen OR continue to live your life with precautions and risk the possibility that you will get COVID, which had a less than 2% death rate in the US when last I looked. 

 

I am well aware of long COVID. I am well aware of lasting affects from having COVID. I am well aware that death may be a blessing to some of the long term affects of COVID. But getting COVID and having severe COVID are not a sure thing...but taking the vaccine IS a sure thing...an immediate decision...and I am willing to continue to live my life as I have been while I wait.

 

I've been wearing masks since before they were recommended. The fact that masks exist at all was proof enough for me of the common sense of wearing them. I don't linger indoors. I do go indoors...but I'm intentional...I don't feel the need to run in and out...but I don't just look around like I might have in the past. At the beginning of the pandemic, I set myself up and have continued to set my life up in such a way that I can do everything that I want to do with common sense precautions and basically, that life is a good life for me. For the time being.

 

I have a deadline by which I will make a decision. My son studies in London. He is in his second year...and I will want to go to the UK for his graduation. I will share...my son will be coming home again to visit this summer (we brought him home last March until August when he went back) and he is eager to get the vaccines. In his words, "There's a pandemic? You've got a vaccine for that? Sign me up for that sh*t." He's a very healthy 20-year old.

 

And I have no problems with him getting the vaccine. It feels weird that he will get it before I do...but he actually needs to get it. It's not as much of a choice for him with his current life. It will be interesting to see how he does frankly because no one else in my blood line has gotten the vaccine. Everyone is waiting. My pushing 90-years Grandma is opting out. My parents are opting out. I have no siblings. My parents don't have blood related siblings. 

 

I don't fault anyone for wanting to get the vaccine. And I don't fault anyone for not wanting to get the vaccine. The best we can do in this life is to live it by a standard, a criteria for doing what you do, and trying our best to stay true to that standard. I am a believer. I could spout out scriptures referring to living life according to faith...how everyone should be following that personal belief path because it is straying from that path/belief/standard that is the true sin. People can change their own mind but bullying someone or pressuring someone isn't the way to do it. 

 

Flame away, I suppose...but I just really wanted to share my viewpoint. It is not based on conspiracy theories. It is not based on misinformation. It is based on me...the way I live my life. If you were to look at my life and the way that I do everything in it, you would see that my current choices are right in line with my standard of living. Vaccine hesitancy is not a new concept...it goes way back. Time is generally what works best to change people's actions.

There are so many falsehoods in your diatribe, that it is simply not worth pointing them all out. You have obviously made your mind up, decided that your viewpoint is correct, and the fact that your decision will help CV19 to continue to proliferate, and cause additional deaths, seems to have escaped your conscience.

[Anita Latte]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Nothing is "lab sourced". The definition of source is where something originates from. Labs can distill, isolate, cultivate etc but they can't source. Nothing originates from a lab, things are brought into labs to be used. In the end everything comes from nature 😉. 

 

Fair enough. My word choice was poor for talking about a final product that nature alone is unlikely to produce. DH (a biochemical engineer) talks about such things all the time...everything is a chemical. Virtually everything is “natural” at the source and “natural” isn’t always desirable...things that happen in labs are often superior for a variety of reasons. I get you.

[Anita Latte]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

There are so many falsehoods in your diatribe, that it is simply not worth pointing them all out. You have obviously made your mind up, decided that your viewpoint is correct, and the fact that your decision will help CV19 to continue to proliferate, and cause additional deaths, seems to have escaped your conscience.

 

You have recognized that however error filled my current thinking is, I have actually spent time researching and gathering what info I can to have an opinion. I hold a strongly rooted opinion and am not easily swayed...that time will be the biggest impact on my thinking. And of course I think my viewpoint is correct for myself or I wouldn’t be thinking it. 😉 I think I present and post as a discussion contributor and not someone that is combative, defensive, or offensive...but I understand not wanting to actually talk to me because you perceive that it would be a waste of your time. Fair enough.

 

Not sure what you think to accomplish with your contribution to the discussion. I’m not a hermit but you have no idea how isolated I am. My conscience is clear.

[SelectSys]

8 hours ago, ldubs said:

Fire apparatus is funded by tax dollars.  Safety products, like smoke detectors, are mandated by law, which is an indirect kind of gov't support.

It isn't the purchase of the items themselves, it is the long term patent protection against competition that allows for monopoly pricing,  Remember the epipen(sp?) price increase scandal?  

 

8 hours ago, ldubs said:

 But I am surprised you consider selfishness to be a product of the Boomer generation.  If asked which generation is the most selfish, I doubt boomers would win the vote -- just sayin.

It's an opinion and I am a Boomer myself.  Boomers have always been about self.  We can agree to disagree.  The story below suggests the Boomer focus on self was a reaction again the previous generations.

 

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/09/05/priority-baby-boomers-nicknamed-generation-due-perceived-narcissism/

The development of a youth culture focusing so heavily on self-fulfillment was also perhaps a reaction against the traits that characterized the older generation, which had grown up during the Great Depression. That generation had learned values associated with self-sacrifice. The deprivations of the Depression had taught that generation to work hard, save money and not spend it; to cherish family and community ties. Loyalty to institutions, traditional religious faiths, and other common bonds were what that generation considered to be the cultural foundations of their country. Baby boomers gradually abandoned those values in large numbers, a development that was entrenched during the 1970s.

 

6 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

If the Ebola vaccine had been completed earlier we could have prevented the outbreak in the Western African nations. Waiting till it is a profitable situation isn't necessarily the right solution for all problems.

100% agree.  Markets work well for just about everything almost all of the time.  Governments are needed to fill the gaps for those societal needs that the market won't fill.  

 

12 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

I'm not sure it's quite fair to say "greed", at least not if you are going to imply it is somehow more common or universal among big Pharma.

I live in an area that is very big in bio tech and pharma (#5 in the US according the link below.)  My daughter works in the industry and I have friends and neighbors who have been on the VC-funded biotech train for many years. I can tell you that the desire for financial success is very strong among the investors, founders/scientists and key employees.

https://www.genengnews.com/a-lists/top-10-u-s-biopharma-clusters-6/

 

49 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

Nothing originates from a lab, things are brought into labs to be used. In the end everything comes from nature

Sorry, I don't buy this statement.  Novel substances and compounds are made in the lab that don't occur in nature.  For many years, scientists have extended the periodic table with elements that don't occur naturally.  More to the point, I'll bet you might have difficulty finding an mRNA vaccine occurring in nature outside the lab.    

 

BTW - I do agree that labs don't alter the underlying physics that govern our world.

[wowzz]

7 minutes ago, Anita Latte said:

 

You have recognized that however error filled my current thinking is, I have actually spent time researching and gathering what info I can to have an opinion. I hold a strongly rooted opinion and am not easily swayed...that time will be the biggest impact on my thinking. And of course I think my viewpoint is correct for myself or I wouldn’t be thinking it. 😉 I think I present and post as a discussion contributor and not someone that is combative, defensive, or offensive...but I understand not wanting to actually talk to me because you perceive that it would be a waste of your time. Fair enough.

 

Not sure what you think to accomplish with your contribution to the discussion. I’m not a hermit but you have no idea how isolated I am. My conscience is clear.

5 months ago, 1000 people a day in the UK were dying of Covid. Thanks to vaccinations, with an  extremely high take up level (over 95% of the over 65s)  the daily number is now between 5 and 20.  

The areas with continued high levels of CV19 are those with low uptake of vaccinations - the correlation is clear. If people don't get vaccinated,  the pandemic will continue.  

[Toofarfromthesea]

21 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I guess some might think it OK for unvaccinated people to expose others to COVID because the number who get sick enough to be hospitalized represents a small percent.  Wonderful.   

If we start demanding people change behavior because the behavior poses a miniscule risk to others there would be a lot of things banned before being unvaccinated.  Every time you get in your car you pose a greater risk to others than an un-vaccinated person poses to vaccinated people.

You demonstrate the 'if it saves just one person' mentality that demands 100% safety no matter what the cost.

[Toofarfromthesea]

21 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

What sort of thinking do you expect from COVID-deniers and anti-vaxxers?

Another endorphin rush for you.

[Toofarfromthesea]

21 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

That smart guy with the wild gray hair once said something like the difference between a lack of good judgement and genius is genius has limits. 

 

I'm getting tired of hearing the anti-vaxxer nonsense and the PC rules that say I'm supposed to pretend they are free to have their own reality.  If someone doesn't want the vaccine, don't take it and take responsibility by staying the heck away from those of us doing our part to eliminate this pandemic. 

Why do you believe that un-vaccinated people pose a risk to you despite you being fully vaccinated?  Even the CDC says that is highly unlikely.  Do you not believe the vaccine works?

[ldubs]

13 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

 

It's an opinion and I am a Boomer myself.  Boomers have always been about self.  We can agree to disagree.  The story below suggests the Boomer focus on self was a reaction again the previous generations.

 

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/09/05/priority-baby-boomers-nicknamed-generation-due-perceived-narcissism/

The development of a youth culture focusing so heavily on self-fulfillment was also perhaps a reaction against the traits that characterized the older generation, which had grown up during the Great Depression. That generation had learned values associated with self-sacrifice. The deprivations of the Depression had taught that generation to work hard, save money and not spend it; to cherish family and community ties. Loyalty to institutions, traditional religious faiths, and other common bonds were what that generation considered to be the cultural foundations of their country. Baby boomers gradually abandoned those values in large numbers, a development that was entrenched during the 1970s.

 

 

 

I could post articles describing the social consciousness, drive and achievement characteristics of the boomer generation.  That is the thing about the internet.  We can find some quote to support whatever we want.  I do think us boomers had opportunities, but we also had good role models from depression era parents.   It is kind of funny that the wording in your story is often used, and even more harshly, to describe the millennials.  Maybe each new generation is considered lazy and self absorbed by those who went before.