U.S. appeals court lifts CDC cruise ship restrictions in win for Florida

[MrMarc]

8 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

Always taking a stand & making sound decisions:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-ship-coronavirus-zaandam
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jacksonville.com/amp/112255994

You mean St. DeSantis wanted to stop cruise ships and wanted to stop COVID from coming into his State when it suited him? No way.

[Ellaleah]

Vaccine passports or a reasonable facsimile needs to be implemented.  I don’t care if the government knows that I am vaccinated.  They gave it to me.  Other countries seem to be putting them in place and businesses are starting to ask employees if they are vaccinated.  It would be the best answer.  It is getting people to get vaccinated if they need it to get in a restaurant.

[BlerkOne]

22 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Even the CEO of Port Canaveral said that the lawsuit helped move things forward.  Anyone who has read the lawsuit can see what the cruise lines faced when dealing with the CDC over the past  1 1/2 years.  The goal post always moved.  I think the people who are not siding with Florida may have never even read the lawsuit.
 

Do you have anything besides the CEO of PC? That example is beyond old. I have read the suit which is one reason I see it as a political stunt and nothing more.

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

2 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

You mean St. DeSantis wanted to stop cruise ships and wanted to stop COVID from coming into his State when it suited him? No way.

It’s funny that the same people that laud DeSantis for his pro-business, non-regulation stance (especially as it applies to cruising) are the same ones crying “politics” when when you bring up the dark side.  
 

Gotta wonder if stricter regs could have prevented Champlain Towers.  And NO, I’m not blaming DeSantis in any way.  I am blaming lax regulations and government oversight (mostly on the local level).  Too little government oversight can be worse than the alternative.

[Lee Cruiser]

10 minutes ago, SDN said:

You are assuming that the cruise lines wanted to stay operating during that time (they didn't). If they wanted to stay operating, they would have fought for it. Luckily they were in a strong position to weather the storm and that was better to them than the risk of continuing operations.

Cruise lines may have seen the need to shut down temporarily.  This was to figure out the best and safest path forward for them and their passengers.   I highly doubt they wanted to stay shut for over a year as was mandated by the CDC's orders, with no real guidelines given on how to return until after the Florida lawsuit.  Like every other business, they had the ability to develop protocols for their business to return.  Just like every other business, the customer would make the ultimate decision on whether or not they were comfortable with  those protocols.

As far as being in a strong position to weather the storm, I'm not sure how you can say Carnival  having to take on over $32 Billion of debt placed them in a strong position then or now.

[Tippyton]

53 minutes ago, AtSeaWithChris said:

The only thing that concerns me is that the government doesn't like to lose. 

Which is why we are where we are...

[AtSeaWithChris]

10 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I think the people who are not siding with Florida may have never even read the lawsuit.

It's pretty bad when a lawsuit has to be filed just to try to get an entire industry back open after being completely shut down for 1 1/2 years.  No government entity should be powerful enough to shut down an industry the way the CDC did to the cruise industry

Time. People just forget after some period. It's like a block to make it less painful. The judge was blunt with his points in such a way that it was obvious where the CDC stood outside of the powers they had. The CDC has now lost, for the time being, in 2 different courts. They still have to prove their case. But even the people who read it are forgetting. There needs to be an independent review of the way the CDC asserted power AFTER the cruise industry voluntarily paused their operations. It was initially a No Sail order. Once the pandemic was underway and businesses were finding a way to resume operations the cruise industry was shut out. The CDC wouldn't even acknowledge the cruise industry.

[Lee Cruiser]

12 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Do you have anything besides the CEO of PC? That example is beyond old. I have read the suit which is one reason I see it as a political stunt and nothing more.

Obviously, Judge Merryday and the judges on the appeals court disagree with you or we wouldn't be having this discussion today.  They have seen merit in the case, even saying there was a likelihood that it would prevail.

[Tippyton]

43 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

No we wouldn't. And if Americans had followed simple instructions last year, we would have been cruising sooner.

Australia has entered the chat....

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, AtSeaWithChris said:

Time. People just forget after some period. It's like a block to make it less painful. The judge was blunt with his points in such a way that it was obvious where the CDC stood outside of the powers they had. The CDC has now lost, for the time being, in 2 different courts. They still have to prove their case. But even the people who read it are forgetting. There needs to be an independent review of the way the CDC asserted power AFTER the cruise industry voluntarily paused their operations. It was initially a No Sail order. Once the pandemic was underway and businesses were finding a way to resume operations the cruise industry was shut out. The CDC wouldn't even acknowledge the cruise industry.

People seem to have forgotten the CSO was a product of the prior administration.

[BlerkOne]

Just now, Tippyton said:

Australia has entered the chat....

Not unless they have a time machine.

[Tippyton]

19 minutes ago, Ellaleah said:

Vaccine passports or a reasonable facsimile needs to be implemented.  I don’t care if the government knows that I am vaccinated.  They gave it to me.  Other countries seem to be putting them in place and businesses are starting to ask employees if they are vaccinated.  It would be the best answer.  It is getting people to get vaccinated if they need it to get in a restaurant.

Drip....drip....drip....

[AtSeaWithChris]

2 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

Australia has entered the chat....

lol Love it!

[MrMarc]

3 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

It’s funny that the same people that laud DeSantis for his pro-business, non-regulation stance (especially as it applies to cruising) are the same ones crying “politics” when when you bring up the dark side.  
 

Gotta wonder if stricter regs could have prevented Champlain Towers.  And NO, I’m not blaming DeSantis in any way.  I am blaming lax regulations and government oversight (mostly on the local level).  Too little government oversight can be worse than the alternative.

The idea that imposing special rules in the situation is a bad thing baffles me.  Our entire response has been random and unfocused.  And clearly a lot of people prefer such a disorganized response to a deadly threat.  This whole lawsuit is premised on not allowing the CDC to actually do it's job.  Honestly,  I am saddened at how paranoid and fearful people have become.  And the fear isn't about an unknown deadly virus, it's about a proven way to prevent that virus.  Sadly we are seeing Darwinism starting to take effect, and that is a tragedy. 

[jimbo5544]

57 minutes ago, AtSeaWithChris said:

umm, if the lawsuit in Florida hadn't forced the CDC to arbitration we might still be waiting for the 1st cruise.

Bingo

[cruisingguy007]

12 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

People seem to have forgotten the CSO was a product of the prior administration.

 

Bingo! 

[AtSeaWithChris]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

People seem to have forgotten the CSO was a product of the prior administration.

regardless of which administration that was able to create the CSO when there had been a NSO the CSO was a way to get cruising started. The path was set. one cruise line even started a group for volunteers for the test cruises that were sure to start going. It was stalled after the administration changed. No word from the CDC. The cruise lines were persona non grata on forthcoming details on the technical instructions for the phases. It was all a political stunt that was proven with the lawsuit that caused the CDC to act. It there had been provable statistics and data they would have won the case. They couldn't even prove why it was necessary to keep cruising stopped. If they had the science and data then a lawsuit wouldn't have phased them rather they reacted to the lawsuit and arbitration and started dropping little nuggets almost weekly. While the other side of the CDC was saying you can now take your masks off if you are vaccinated.

[AtSeaWithChris]

8 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

The idea that imposing special rules in the situation is a bad thing baffles me.  Our entire response has been random and unfocused.  And clearly a lot of people prefer such a disorganized response to a deadly threat.  This whole lawsuit is premised on not allowing the CDC to actually do it's job.  Honestly,  I am saddened at how paranoid and fearful people have become.  And the fear isn't about an unknown deadly virus, it's about a proven way to prevent that virus.  Sadly we are seeing Darwinism starting to take effect, and that is a tragedy. 

It is a little random and disorganized, that's because of our form of government. Multiple states and local jurisdictions as well as federal all have their own laws. The lawsuit is why cruising is happening now.

[MrMarc]

Perhaps it's time to start putting some of the vaccines that so manyvAmericans are afraid of and allow the cruise ships to take it to people who actually understand the need for it.

[SDN]

19 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

Australia has entered the chat....

Australians still can't leave their own country for a vacation.

 

If you are an Australian citizen or a permanent resident you cannot leave Australia due to COVID-19 restrictions unless you have an exemption. You can apply online but you must meet at least one of the following:

• your travel is as part of the response to the COVID-19 outbreak, including the provision of aid 
• your travel is for your business/employer
• you are travelling to receive urgent medical treatment that is not available in Australia
• you are travelling outside Australia for a compelling reason for three months or longer
• you are travelling on compelling or compassionate grounds 
• your travel is in the national interest.

[AtSeaWithChris]

2 minutes ago, SDN said:

you are travelling on compelling or compassionate grounds 

I can be pretty compelling when I really want to do something. Does that count?

[cruisingguy007]

7 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Perhaps it's time to start putting some of the vaccines that so manyvAmericans are afraid of and allow the cruise ships to take it to people who actually understand the need for it.

 

I was reading this article earlier about breakthrough cases and was surprised to learn of Singapore's high vaccine rate of 75%, only behind UAE. USA needs to step up our game. May be time to offer boosters to those who want it. 

 

 https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/vaccinated-people-singapore-make-up-three-quarters-recent-covid-19-cases-2021-07-23/

Edited July 24, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[MrMarc]

3 minutes ago, AtSeaWithChris said:

It is a little random and disorganized, that's because of our form of government. Multiple states and local jurisdictions as well as federal all have their own laws. The lawsuit is why cruising is happening now.

 I agree, which is why I believe this is the exact type of situation in which the CDC, HHS and FEMA should have joined forces and directed a national response,  probably with the logistics support from the military.  But so many people see a conspiracy behind every action.  And this lawsuit could easily disrupt the industry again by creating more uncertainty and disorganization.  

[Shipof6Fools]

I think cruise lines will continue to do the smart thing and protect their business going forward by having the covid rules in place currently. What should be gone is the test cruise cycle set up by the CDC as well as the 95% vaccinated rule.  Each ship can tests its covid protocols while in port with crew members acting as passengers instead of having to wasting money going through 2, 3, or 4 day sailings. Some cruise lines business model depends to heavily on children (ie Disney and RC) so they where never going to be over 95% vaxxed.

[ScottsSweetie]

29 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

People seem to have forgotten the CSO was a product of the prior administration.

But I thought that the CDC was not political?