U.S. appeals court lifts CDC cruise ship restrictions in win for Florida

[ray98]

Just now, MrMarc said:

No, it carries no more weight tonight than it did this morning. These are all preliminary actions.  We are a long way from a final decision. 

 

Quite dismissive of our legal process.  A ruling by a single federal judge is final 99.9% of the time and carries the full weight of the federal government behind it.  On those rare occasions a case merits going in front of a judicial panel at one of the 13 federal district appellate courts it increases the weight of that ruling in magnitudes.  Those district courts are what creates the most binding decisions in the land and are only overturnable by the US Supreme Court.  To dismiss their ruling as 'preliminary' if misleading.

[MrMarc]

1 minute ago, sailingships said:

What are your thoughts on everybody being tested before they go onboard? Just in case.

No need, vaccinated can get COVID but highly unlikely to spread it.  The vaccine prevents you from building up enough of a viral load to be shedding it.

[MrMarc]

1 minute ago, ray98 said:

 

Quite dismissive of our legal process.  A ruling by a single federal judge is final 99.9% of the time and carries the full weight of the federal government behind it.  On those rare occasions a case merits going in front of a judicial panel at one of the 13 federal district appellate courts it increases the weight of that ruling in magnitudes.  Those district courts are what creates the most binding decisions in the land and are only overturnable by the US Supreme Court.  To dismiss their ruling as 'preliminary' if misleading.

Three Appelsye Judge's decided on way all last week, were you touting how meaningful that was?  Now the same Judge's overruled themselves su esponte.  I find this very strange.  Justice Thomas is the next to decide the preliminary order before it goes back to the trial court for trial to final judgment, followed by appeals.  But in any event, all of these decisions are regarding the trial court's preliminary stay of the CDC orders.  So whichever court is deciding it, all of these decisions are only preliminary.

[kilkoyne]

5 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I'd take that bet! Not even close. Covid cruise lines would be like watching a slow motion train wreck. 

 

The CDC already had plans to allow non-vaccinated cruises. I guess we'll see if this "slow motion train wreck" comes to fruition.

[ray98]

25 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Three Appelsye Judge's decided on way all last week, were you touting how meaningful that was?  Now the same Judge's overruled themselves su esponte.  I find this very strange.  Justice Thomas is the next to decide the preliminary order before it goes back to the trial court for trial to final judgment, followed by appeals.  But in any event, all of these decisions are regarding the trial court's preliminary stay of the CDC orders.  So whichever court is deciding it, all of these decisions are only preliminary.

Huh?  They issued a stay on the lower courts ruling at the request of the CDC while they reviewed the case.  The reviewed the facts and vacated the stay after finding the CDC had not proved they had legal jurisdiction to issue such orders in the first place so they were not entitled to a stay pending an appeal.  

 

Justice Thomas will probably not consider the case now since the fact the appellate court issued a stay was the matter to be decided.  Now that they have vacated their stay the lower court ruling becomes law.

Edited July 24, 2021 by ray98

[BlerkOne]

10 minutes ago, kilkoyne said:

 

The CDC already had plans to allow non-vaccinated cruises. I guess we'll see if this "slow motion train wreck" comes to fruition.

With additional protocols.

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, ray98 said:

Huh?  They issued a stay on the lower courts ruling at the request of the CDC while they reviewed the case.  The reviewed the facts and vacated the stay after finding the CDC had not proved they had legal jurisdiction to issue such orders in the first place so they were not entitled to a stay pending an appeal.  

The lower court ruling was simply an injunction until the case could actually be tried. The lower court has not reached a verdict in the case.

[ray98]

34 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The lower court ruling was simply an injunction until the case could actually be tried. The lower court has not reached a verdict in the case.

 

Of course....with 124 pages explaining how the CDC overstepped its legal authority. 

 

It is not "simply an injunction", an injunction is the relief in a situation like this.  If the judge finds in the plaintiffs favor it starts with a preliminary injunction and the parties must then fulfill any additional requests from the court.  It can quickly move to a permanent injunction after that which is the final ruling.

Edited July 24, 2021 by ray98

[kilkoyne]

1 hour ago, MrMarc said:

Because vaccines are not perfect.

 

So why bother getting vaccinated?

[kilkoyne]

39 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

With additional protocols.

 

At least we're in agreement that vaccines aren't necessary for cruising. 👍

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, Lee Cruiser said:

Obviously, Judge Merryday and the judges on the appeals court disagree with you or we wouldn't be having this discussion today.  They have seen merit in the case, even saying there was a likelihood that it would prevail.

The appeals court hasn't even begun to hear the case.

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, kilkoyne said:

 

At least we're in agreement that vaccines aren't necessary for cruising. 👍

As long as you cruise in a bubble, at reduced capacity, mandatory masks and regular testing. If your idea of fun is dancing with a mask on, go for it.

 

It was possible to get the virus under control in the beginning before vaccines were available, but those days may be past. The US has millions of doses of vaccines that they can give away to citizens but the world needs billions of doses to beat the pandemic.

[BlerkOne]

16 minutes ago, kilkoyne said:

 

So why bother getting vaccinated?

For the best chance at not dying from covid.

[BoozinCroozin]

Regardless of the ruling, the cruise lines have a successful working plan. Most cruises have been extremely successful. There is no need to change what is happening nor their protocols. The only real difference at this point is the invasiveness of the CDC. The cruise lines are not going to abandon protocols that would allow the CDC to step back into the arena. Carnival is gearing up a large number of ships soon and taking the first big steps back to normalcy. 

[kilkoyne]

.

Edited July 24, 2021 by kilkoyne

[kilkoyne]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

As long as you cruise in a bubble, at reduced capacity, mandatory masks and regular testing. If your idea of fun is dancing with a mask on, go for it.

 

It was possible to get the virus under control in the beginning before vaccines were available, but those days may be past. The US has millions of doses of vaccines that they can give away to citizens but the world needs billions of doses to beat the pandemic.

 

As long as you agree cruise lines can safely run without vaccines then I will disregard what you posted earlier. 👍

[kilkoyne]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

For the best chance at not dying from covid.

 

The best chance to not die is to hide in a cave. The double standard from between the airline industry and cruise line industry the CDC was upholding is about as ridiculous as that statement I just made.

[Cafedumonde]

The cdc is on the run everywhere at this point. Another federal court ruled today that the CDC moratorium on evictions is unlawful.  The worm has turned.  The cdc  has been manipulating information left right and center. And it has been acting as a legislative body.  They are unelected.  And they have truly overstepped.  

[jperry2011]

10 hours ago, hammer76 said:

If Carnival was to change the protocols from what they have stated, we are gone from them.

Bye

[Cafedumonde]

5 hours ago, MrMarc said:

No need, vaccinated can get COVID but highly unlikely to spread it.  The vaccine prevents you from building up enough of a viral load to be shedding it.

This is a theory that has not proven to be true. And think about what you are saying logically.  Like with your own brain.  Does it make sense?  Of course not.  

5 hours ago, MrMarc said:

Three Appelsye Judge's decided on way all last week, were you touting how meaningful that was?  Now the same Judge's overruled themselves su esponte.  I find this very strange.  Justice Thomas is the next to decide the preliminary order before it goes back to the trial court for trial to final judgment, followed by appeals.  But in any event, all of these decisions are regarding the trial court's preliminary stay of the CDC orders.  So whichever court is deciding it, all of these decisions are only preliminary.

The court changed its ruling because it realized the cdc has no case.  Desantis is not your average fool politician and is unusual in that he knows what he is doing.  He went to Harvard law (on merit not through contacts) and worked as a JAG.  Most politicians are so B (Or rather C or D) team. I can’t wait to see NCL move out of Miami when del rio loses his lawsuit.

[kdr69]

6 hours ago, MrMarc said:

No need, vaccinated can get COVID but highly unlikely to spread it. 

Seems to be what we are being told so why does that not translate into action with respect to what we are "allowed" to do as vaccinated individuals.  

[kdr69]

3 minutes ago, Cafedumonde said:

Exactly.  And the vaccines have a lot of potentially negative side effects because they are a new type of vaccine that doesn’t actually actually give you immunity. 

They have some negative side effects in some people.  I wouldnt say they have a lot.  I would rather have 80-90% protection than none at all especially when the number 1 side effect of the virus could be death. Will worry about the others after i ensure my capability to keep breathing. I laugh every time i see mention of side effects.  Has anyone ever listened to Tv ads about medications in the US?  Takes 2 minutes of a 2.5 minute commercial to list all the possible side effects and people are worried about 2 or 3 rare side effects for the vaccine?  AND THOSE ARE APPROVED MEDICATIONS!!! Everyone must feel they are the luckiest folks alive worrying about the 'off" chance they "may" get affected by a rare side effect while they roll the dice on living or dying. 

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, AtSeaWithChris said:

umm, if the lawsuit in Florida hadn't forced the CDC to arbitration we might still be waiting for the 1st cruise.

There was never arbitration. 

[ontheweb]

2 minutes ago, AtSeaWithChris said:

Ok, that's what happened. Now you may not call what they did arbitration but it certainly happened. The judge ordered them in to arbitration and it failed. 

NO, the judge ordered them into mediation, which is a totally different process than arbitration.

[AtSeaWithChris]

Just now, ontheweb said:

The CDC is part of HHS.

Every agency practically is part of HHS. HHS was started to have one voice for all the data after 911. The CDC was deaf and dumb when it came to cruising.