New Princess Sphere class ships?

[CruizinSusan70]

On 9/16/2022 at 1:23 AM, ldtr said:

Two new dining venues for certain classed of cabins. Expect the MDR quality to drop. If it works expect them to wedge it into Royal class ships when they go through dry docks.

 

Pretty much left Celebrity when they went the ship within a ship route.

The quality of the MDR's on the Edge Class on Celebrity has not slipped at all.  And the ship within a ship concept is currently on various lines, primarily on NCL with the Haven, and MSC with their Yacht Club.  Celebrity has it with the Retreat and RCI with their Star Class.  If you don't like it, then your only options are a lateral move to HAL or spend more and upgrade to Oceania.

[Guest ldtr]

20 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

The quality of the MDR's on the Edge Class on Celebrity has not slipped at all.  And the ship within a ship concept is currently on various lines, primarily on NCL with the Haven, and MSC with their Yacht Club.  Celebrity has it with the Retreat and RCI with their Star Class.  If you don't like it, then your only options are a lateral move to HAL or spend more and upgrade to Oceania.

Keep in mind that this system was in place with Celebrity long before Edge was built  To have seen the change you would been sailing the Solstice and Infinity class ship during the period when the changes were made.

 

Back when you actually saw the differences in the staffing and spacing of the MDR when the actually made the changes. When doing multiple cruises during the year you could see the differences. 

 

All of these changes were done before the Edge class was ever built.

 

Back then it was very obvious when one cruise Michael's was a public venue, often used for violin trios, then the next cruise it was a suite lounge. Or one cruise you could sit in your favorite spot in the center of the balcony to watch shoes, then the next cruise the space was reserved for suites.

 

NCL actually implemented Haven with less impact on existing customers. Partly because they did less trying to shoehorn into existing ships, also less visible in the already large number of dining venues.

Edited September 17, 2022 by ldtr

[caribill]

8 hours ago, ldtr said:

Princess has been headed in the larger ship direction long before Padgett.  It is driven by the economics of price competition in the main stream cruise line market.  Smaller ships are less economically efficient in both operating and capital costs.  Want smaller ships,  no way around higher fares.

 

$200/day/person for an inside cabin; $300/day/person for a balcony;  the Sun manages to combine being a larger ship with higher fares.

[caribill]

11 hours ago, Syracusefan44 said:

After cruising exclusively with Princess over the past 16 years my wife and I decided to take a look at the itineraries offered by Holland America on the Volendam which has a capacity of 1425 passengers.  We have decided to give them and book a 28 day cruise to the Amazon River.

 

That is about the same itinerary we had on the original Regal Princess in 2006.

 

Princess was once known for great itineraries such as this one.

 

 Regal Princess docked in Manaus

[MissP22]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

 

$200/day/person for an inside cabin; $300/day/person for a balcony;  the Sun manages to combine being a larger ship with higher fares.

Of course we would love to sail on the new Sun but in the mean time until most of the crowd gets it our of their system and prices settle down we'll be taking advantage of the lower prices on the older ships. 😉

[deliver42]

You're paying for an entirely new class of ship. Every line does it, except, maybe, Carnival.I will say that this new ship intrigues me. I's beautiful and different from the boring same old, same old that princess has used for years. It's about time. I think they have a home run.

[oteixeira]

10 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

Actually, I think it is you who is missing the point. I don’t think that there is anyone here who is arguing against the idea that the 13% are going to love the ship within a ship paradigm. What’s not to love?  And exactly for the reasons you stated. You are 100% right. But the point being made here is that the 87% are going to suffer the consequences of your enjoyment. MDR selections will be downgraded. You will have lobster. They will have orange roughy. You will have Shafer Red Shoulder Ranch. They will have Yellow Tail. You will have easy access to lounge chairs by the pool. They will have more people competing for less square footage of poolside comfort. I haven’t seen a single post here from anyone who has sailed on another cruise line that has a ship within a ship model who had said: “Nothing to fear. The standard cruise experience will not suffer from this change.”  Not one. So yes, the 13% are going to love this. Give me $10,000 and I will plan a Disney World vacation second to none. Give me $4,000 and I will be left planning a stressful trip where I will accomplish half of what I am used to.  Seems like Princess is angling for the same experience. Thankfully it will take at least a decade for this new model to supplant the old unless they retrofit the Grand and Royal Class ships but I don’t see that happening. 

Well, I think we respectfully dissagree.  If your MDR standards went down, I would not blame the ship within a ship.  Over the years I would say NCL has actually upped their MDR game.  As for losing the lobster, that happened on basically every line as a cost saving measure, and had nothing to do with the ship within a ship.  I think you are seeing things that happened at the same time and looking for something to pin the blame on.  RCL got rid of the lobster and had no ship within a ship at all until their ship that just came out this summer.   

So here it is for you.  I have sailed ship within a ship.  ON THE SAME SHIP I have sailed in a  balcony room (again, more than once in each).   YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR.  It was still a great cruise.  I still had a great time, with access to great MDR food (ate it every night),  enjoyed the theater shows without issue of getting in, the casino, there were loungers and a great lido deck.  I was able to embark and debark without any issues or extra waiting..All of it was still there for the taking and I took it. 

 

As a matter of fact this video is of me watching Choir of Man, from my steerage seats I suppose (Non ship within a ship trip) just last year.  As you can see the cheap seats sure are horrible.....:
 

I hope that helps you in terms of easing your fears, but it looks like you have your mind set.

Edited September 17, 2022 by oteixeira

[Wishing on a star]

Back to the new Sphere Sun Princess.  Are these first sailings supposed to released to be booked (non Elite) ?

I am not seeing this ship on the website Find A Cruise.  Don't know if you have to call?

[HBCcruiser]

2 minutes ago, Wishing on a star said:

Back to the new Sphere Sun Princess.  Are these first sailings supposed to released to be booked (non Elite) ?

I am not seeing this ship on the website Find A Cruise.  Don't know if you have to call?

Yes, you must call or go through your TA. 

[Fairsky84]

In a way, the three SUN PRINCESS ships represent the three eras of the modern cruise industry. The three ships have grown from 17,000 tons, to 77,000 tons, to 175,000 tons.

 

Sun Princess (1974) was a small cruise ship (17,000 tons) designed for a tiny cruise market. She was intended to be a sister ship to NCL's Southward, but the unfinished hull was purchased by P&O and became part of the Princess fleet when P&O bought the small, American cruise line. 

 

Sun Princess (1995) was the largest cruise ship in the world when she was launched (77,000 tons). She was also the first ship purpose-built and designed ship by Princess to compete with Carnival Corp and Royal Caribbean following the company's purchase of Sitmar Cruises in 1988. The three ships added to the fleet from 1989 to 1991 (Star, Crown, Regal) were actually ordered and designed by Sitmar before merging with Princess. This was an era of massive growth, mergers, and innovation for the industry. 

 

Sun Princess (2023) shows what the cruise industry has become and its focus on massive scale with huge ships. She will be 175,000 tons. Ships with sleek lines taking passengers to intimate ports have been exchanged for huge floating boxes with gaudy hull art, designed to maximize on-board spending with upcharged restaurants, class-based rooms, and amusement park attractions.  

Edited September 17, 2022 by Fairsky84

[shirazcruiser]

There is so much resentment for those who pay more and ultimately get more.  Our first cruise was 30 years ago for our honeymoon and I wanted to book an inside room to save money, but DH wanted a window cabin.  After that we have slowly upgraded to only sailing in suites. Our upcoming 21 day European cruise in a Penthouse suite costs 3 1/2 times that of an interior room,  but is exactly twice the size...not 3 1/2 times larger.  I think suites are way over priced, but we want more space and some of the extras.  Princess is behind the times on suite amenities compared to Celebrity.  I look forward to the Signature restaurant and lounge.   

[JimmyVWine]

9 hours ago, HBCcruiser said:

BTW most Haven guests do not take main pool loungers or main pool space away from other cruises. 

But Princess isn’t building a Haven area. It is building an experiential upgrade. It actually would be better if it did build a geographic upgrade area like the Haven. 

[suzyed]

12 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

That’s what I am wondering. Take the inaugural (curiosity and “I have to be first”) people out of the equation and I can’t see why anyone would pay MORE to sail on this ship as part of the 87%. Would it be great to be part of the 13%?  Heck yeah. But pay a premium to be part of the second class? I  don’t see that as being an attractive option as long as one of the other many ships remains an option.  $700 for a week in an Inside on a Royal Class ship or $1,300 for a week on a Sphere Class ship. Hard to see how they sell these cabins. The price will have to level set. 

Reminds me a bit of sailing on the QM2 where about 80% are in "regular" cabins  and the others are in the Grills and Club cabins.  This is mostly due to where you dine, so the bulk of the passengers are dining together.  Otherwise, you don't really know where or what level anyone is whilst playing trivia or at tea.
MSC has the  Yacht Club and I understand that a whole other thing....separate area of the ship with their own pool, bars, restaurant, cabins, butlers, etc.  You can't go in the area unless you are booked in there.

Edited September 17, 2022 by suzyed

[HBCcruiser]

Just now, JimmyVWine said:

But Princess isn’t building a Haven area. It is building an experiential upgrade. It actually would be better if it did build a geographic upgrade area like the Haven. 

I infer from the Princess website that they are building a Haven-like area with a private restaurant and lounge. In addition they are adding a separate area in the Sanctuary for the Signature Suites. I guess we will have to wait until the deck plans are finished. It’s all just speculation until then. 

[JimmyVWine]

1 hour ago, oteixeira said:

I hope that helps you in terms of easing your fears

I have no fears. If and when I book on this class-based ship, I will always book Reserve or Signature. 

[JimmyVWine]

3 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

It’s all just speculation until then.

Agree. But from the wake view areas at the stern to the Reserve Cabana deck space mid-ship to the special area of the Sanctuary, it does seem more spread out. 

[HBCcruiser]

Roller coaster? Race track? 🤔

 

[sloopsailor]

14 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

Roller coaster? Race track? 🤔

 

 

Maybe something like this. This is on Carnival's Mardi Gras, a sister cruise line to Princess. 

 

[Guest ldtr]

34 minutes ago, shirazcruiser said:

There is so much resentment for those who pay more and ultimately get more.  Our first cruise was 30 years ago for our honeymoon and I wanted to book an inside room to save money, but DH wanted a window cabin.  After that we have slowly upgraded to only sailing in suites. Our upcoming 21 day European cruise in a Penthouse suite costs 3 1/2 times that of an interior room,  but is exactly twice the size...not 3 1/2 times larger.  I think suites are way over priced, but we want more space and some of the extras.  Princess is behind the times on suite amenities compared to Celebrity.  I look forward to the Signature restaurant and lounge.   

Again the resentment is not over paying more to get more, it is over the reallocation of public space and other resources such that most of the passengers will end up getting less. Cruise ships have a fixed set of resources. They have limited crew space, they have limited public space. When you increase the allocation per passenger of those resources you have to decrease it to the remaining passengers. 

 

Pretty much the same with the food budget. They had to show a difference between the MDR and the new venues. Yet the financial filings during that time did not show any increase in dollars per passenger day. It was very clear to those of us sailing during that period that some of the better menu selections were vanishing from the MDR menu. 

 

Very noticeable to those of us that went through the change on Celebrity. Especially when they refit the existing ships that were not built with the concept.

 

For those that started cruising after all of the changes they have not known anything different on that line.

 

Princess has chosen to date not to make such a reallocation of resources. They have given benefits to suites but not those that impact other passengers. They have made some for fee areas but anyone on the ship can choose to pay for access.

 

This all changes with the new ship. It appears that they will be going down the Celebrity path with two categories, instead of the NCL Haven route, which might have less impact.

Edited September 17, 2022 by ldtr

[stoneharborlady]

13 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

Wow. Is that a cabin or a cell?

Dont think I could sleep in that cabin.  I wonder how popular they are.

 

[Guest ldtr]

8 hours ago, caribill said:

 

That is about the same itinerary we had on the original Regal Princess in 2006.

 

Princess was once known for great itineraries such as this one.

 

 Regal Princess docked in Manaus

I think that the new ship is a clear signal that Princess is going the route of other mass market lines that great unique itineraries are no longer the main focus. That due to ship size future routes will be the same limited sets as other lines, so they are starting to go the ship is the destination, not just a nice way to travel on great itineraries.

 

We will visit Manaus next year on either Hal or Oceania. Just as we will be visiting Bora Bora (we were just there in May for a 15 day land visit) on Oceania.

 

 

[Wishing on a star]

On my first cruise, I didn't have a balcony cabin, an exclusive upscale private deck area, etc.  We didn't do extra uncharge dining.  Any of that.

Many of us here didn't.   I can still do that today.   It is what it is.

if people remember smaller less crowded cruise ships with Lobter, etc...  I think it is human nature to remember things thru rose colored glasses.  You can still have that today.  But, like everything else in this world, it is simply going to cost more.   You just simply are not gonna get that on CCL base level fares.  Doesn't mean it has been taken away. 

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, HBCcruiser said:

I infer from the Princess website that they are building a Haven-like area with a private restaurant and lounge. In addition they are adding a separate area in the Sanctuary for the Signature Suites. I guess we will have to wait until the deck plans are finished. It’s all just speculation until then. 

Yes if they stopped there the impact would be less. Instead they are also adding an entire additional class Ala Celebrity that is less focused but also get their own dining venue, additional reserved spaces. Basically they are trying to incorporate feature from both NCL and Celebrity. As such likely to have more negative impacts on the rest.

[Guest ldtr]

7 minutes ago, Wishing on a star said:

On my first cruise, I didn't have a balcony cabin, an exclusive upscale private deck area, etc.  We didn't do extra uncharge dining.  Any of that.

Many of us here didn't.   I can still do that today.   It is what it is.

if people remember smaller less crowded cruise ships with Lobter, etc...  I think it is human nature to remember things thru rose colored glasses.  You can still have that today.  But, like everything else in this world, it is simply going to cost more.   You just simply are not gonna get that on CCL base level fares.  Doesn't mean it has been taken away. 

in this case the resources will be reallocated  especially if they retro fit existing ships along the same model, so in this case they will be taken away. Just as they were during the transition on Celebrity.

[MissP22]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

Again the resentment is not over paying more to get more, it is over the reallocation of public space and other resources such that most of the passengers will end up getting less. Cruise ships have a fixed set of resources. They have limited crew space, they have limited public space. When you increase the allocation per passenger of those resources you have to decrease it to the remaining passengers. 

That's exactly the point.

i.e.- The sanctuary space, cabana's around the retreat pool, Club Class dining, Specialty restaurants. It all takes away a little from everyone else.

I'm waiting for them to introduce different speeds of Wi-Fi= if they can even get the basic level working properly.