Interesting Article on Viking’s Lifeboats

[Clay Clayton]

I knew Viking had these compresses lifeboats and tubes to access them. But presumed that these were used for mostly for crew who probably had trained to slide down them or in an emergency if a traditional lifeboat was damaged or malfunctioned. I seem to recall I counted the capacity of the traditional lifeboats and they would hold 930 passengers but maybe I’m wrong?  #WorriedI’mTooBigAround! 

https://www.core77.com/posts/110281/How-Viking-Cruises-Dual-Evacuation-Chutes-Work

[Peregrina651]

Claustrophobia.

[FlyerTalker]

The perils of amateur journalism.

 

What you have here is a system made by VIKING Life-Saving Equipment.  Not one for general use by Viking Cruises.  Completely different company.

 

You can see these life raft canisters on most all ships.

 

https://www.viking-life.com/en/what-we-offer/marine-safety/liferafts-1

Edited October 14, 2021 by FlyerTalker

[Jim Avery]

In a worst case scenario I would rather be in one of the rafts than the incredibly crowded boats.  We trained with both rafts and boats as part of my maritime career and much better air circulation in the rafts.  As to the OPs article, I wondered, when looking at the illustrations, what if a "large'" person became stuck in the chute?  😳

[BigBee51]

41 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

The perils of amateur journalism.

 

What you have here is a system made by VIKING Life-Saving Equipment.  Not one for general use by Viking Cruises.  Completely different company.

 

You can see these life raft canisters on most all ships.

 

https://www.viking-life.com/en/what-we-offer/marine-safety/liferafts-1

I am relieved a bit by your answer but looking at a Viking ship, there are only 4 large "lifeboats", 2 per side of the vessel with a smaller things between the two "lifeboats". How many people can fit on them?

Edited October 14, 2021 by BigBee51

[FlyerTalker]

There is a placard in each lifeboat, giving its capacity as both lifeboat and tender.  I seem to remember that the number as lifeboat was over 200 each, but can't recall right now.  Someone onboard might take a look during their next tendering operation.

 

 

[cruisinchrissy]

I wonder why these were not deployed in the Viking Sky incident in Norway.?

Maybe the weather conditions were too severe in that case?

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, Clay Clayton said:

I knew Viking had these compresses lifeboats and tubes to access them. But presumed that these were used for mostly for crew who probably had trained to slide down them or in an emergency if a traditional lifeboat was damaged or malfunctioned. I seem to recall I counted the capacity of the traditional lifeboats and they would hold 930 passengers but maybe I’m wrong?  #WorriedI’mTooBigAround! 

https://www.core77.com/posts/110281/How-Viking-Cruises-Dual-Evacuation-Chutes-Work

Clay - no worries.

 

This article refers to a Marine Evacuation System (MES) from Viking Lifesaving Equipment, who are based in Esbjerg, Denmark. This shows their 2nd generation MES. The world has 3 main manufacturers:

• Viking
• Survivtec (N/Ireland) - Marin Ark & Zodiac
• Lifesaving Systems Australia (Hobart, Tasmania)

Cruise ships are still required to have suffient Class A Lifeboats for at least 75% of the compliment - at least 37.5% on each side. They also require an additional 25% of other lifesaving equipment on each side. This can be davit-launched (DL) liferafts or MES. On Viking Sun, I checked, and Viking use the older Viking LSE DL Liferafts, either 25 or 35 person. Generally, most, if not all pax would go in lifeboats and crew in the rafts.

 

On ferries, many vessels no longer carry lifeboats and are solely fitted with MES. In Canada (West Coast), we have not installed liefboats on a newbuild ship since the 60's/70's. When installing Marin Arks back in the early 2000's, I received a call from one of the UK MCA Inspectors asking about installing only MES, and my experience, both as an operational Master and also purchasing/installing them. I believe UK now has MES only ferries.

 

Over the years, I have attended probably at least 30-40 MES deployments, have gone down at least a dozen times and planned/scheduled 4 timed evacuations for Transport Canada. Every time we installed a new system, we had to prove the OEM capacity to Transport Canada. Through various local organisations we enlisted sufficient volunteers that were an acceptable cross-section of the population. They received no training prior to the exercise, except for the normal instructions given out by the crew, just before deployment. We had 1/2 hr from giving the order to abandon ship, to get the volunteers down the chute/slide, into the rafts and tow the rafts at least 100 yds from the ship. The system must inflate in < 60 secs, then crew descend to check and prepare the system, before pax start descending, with 1 entering as another exits. Most systems have capacity of 400 - 450, but some are as high as 600.

 

Are MES systems safe - yes. Have MES experienced injuries - yes, but mostly sprains & strains. However, P&O Ferries did experience a fatality in Dover, when an employee ended up stuck in the pike position. We tried extensively to replicate the issue, but could never duplicate it. However, crew training was increased and they were trained how to clear blockages.

 

You also have to consider how safe are lifeboats, as very few pax are aware that many mariners consider that lifeboats have killed more than they have saved. Lots of technology has improved safety, but lifeboats still have risk.

 

Clay - based on your height, you will find the large capacity liferafts more spacious, as each person in a raft has more space than a lifeboat.

 

Personally my preference, if we ever had to use survival craft would be:

• MES - either a chute or slide, from any of the 3 top manufacturers
• Lifeboat
• DL Liferaft

Note - I did my original survival course with a 25-man inflatable liferaft in a swimming pool, with kids at the other end. Once inside the raft and it was closed up, the movement was horrible, about the only time I was ever close to being sick. Also had to demonstrate the operation of a fully loaded 25-man DL Liferaft to Transport Canada. We had 30+ kt winds, when lowering the raft loaded with water to replicate the weight of people. The raft was blown around considerably during the 60' descent.

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, BigBee51 said:

I am relieved a bit by your answer but looking at a Viking ship, there are only 4 large "lifeboats", 2 per side of the vessel with a smaller things between the two "lifeboats". How many people can fit on them?

 

The Viking Ocean ships have 3 lifeboats on each side. Boats # 1,2,5 and 6 are tenders, while boats # 3 and 4 are standard lifeboats.

 

On the tenders, if memory is correct they hold about 90 - 95 for tender ops, but I can't remember the number on the capacity plaque. The regular lifeboats are most likely 150 person capacity.

 

Regardless, the ship must have lifeboat capacity for at least 75% of the compliment, with 37.5% on each side.

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, cruisinchrissy said:

I wonder why these were not deployed in the Viking Sky incident in Norway.?

Maybe the weather conditions were too severe in that case?

 

The Captain made a very wise decision, as launching lifeboats in those conditions carries an extremely high risk.

[BigBee51]

Thanks for the info. I can see three per side in photos of the ship. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by BigBee51

[TayanaLorna]

The video demonstration in the article shows the water to be rather calm.  Lordy, I would not be wanting to do that in heavy seas on a ship with no steerage!

[Heidi13]

28 minutes ago, TayanaLorna said:

The video demonstration in the article shows the water to be rather calm.  Lordy, I would not be wanting to do that in heavy seas on a ship with no steerage!

 

Never deployed an MES system in a significant sea state, but they are designed to work. They just ride up and down with the waves. Easier to use than a lifeboat in a rough sea. They are also easier to release from the ship than a lifeboat.

[FlyerTalker]

Thank you Andy for the more detailed description and answer.  Mostly, I wanted to head off any mistaken discussions of what is and is not on Viking (and other) cruise ships.

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, TayanaLorna said:

The video demonstration in the article shows the water to be rather calm.  Lordy, I would not be wanting to do that in heavy seas on a ship with no steerage!

 

Forgot to mention in my previous post and it's too late to edit.

 

SOLAS requires MES to be tested in winds of 30 kts and at least 10' seas, during the approval process. I have watched films of RFD getting the Marin Ark system approved off the coast of Scotland.

[TayanaLorna]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Never deployed an MES system in a significant sea state, but they are designed to work. They just ride up and down with the waves. Easier to use than a lifeboat in a rough sea. They are also easier to release from the ship than a lifeboat.

I suppose if the flooring was anything like that on the 4-man liferaft we had on our sailboat, waves would just roll under it.  

[deec]

This whole topic needs to be filed under "things I do not want to think about."

[KBs mum]

5 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

In a worst case scenario I would rather be in one of the rafts than the incredibly crowded boats.  We trained with both rafts and boats as part of my maritime career and much better air circulation in the rafts.  As to the OPs article, I wondered, when looking at the illustrations, what if a "large'" person became stuck in the chute?  😳

Send a thin but heavy person down next to get the stuck person unstuck? 

 

Edit. Or a very big sink plunger? 

Edited October 14, 2021 by KBs mum

[chengkp75]

Andy has done a great job of describing the MES operations.  I can add a little to it.  MES are used on cruise ships, mainly for crew, but also in some cases for the passengers who are over the "double occupancy" limit.  As Andy has said, it is almost impossible to get stuck in the chute, and most injuries were caused by inexperienced crew not getting out from under the chute quickly, or not directing/assisting people to get out from under.

 

The round canisters you see on cruise ships (and also in the photos in the article linked) are the davit launched rafts Andy mentions.  The raft canister is picked up by a davit (crane) arm, swung over the side, and lowered to the embarkation deck.  It is then inflated, the crew board at the embarkation deck, and the raft is then lowered to the water, where it disconnects from the davit wire, and the wire is reeled back up to pick up the next raft and repeat.  The MES, as shown in the photos is housed in large square "boxes", that contain 2-4 rafts and the chutes.

 

As regards the Viking Ocean incident, in those winds, the rafts would likely have been torn from the side of the ship (the ropes have "weak links" that will separate to keep the raft from being pulled under if it is not untied from a sinking ship.  Also, I have seen the canopy of rafts torn off in high winds.  It would have been extremely risky to deploy these in that situation, unless the ship was sinking.

 

As Andy says, there are risks associated with both rafts and lifeboats.

 

As Andy says, the motion in a raft in even a small swell is incredible.  As part of my training, I spent 4 hours in a 25 man raft, offshore Halifax, in March, in 6 foot swells.  Like Andy, that is the worst sea sick I ever got.  The best I can describe it, is "think of one of the old waterbeds (the ones that were simply a plastic bag of water), and an elephant is dancing on it.

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, TayanaLorna said:

I suppose if the flooring was anything like that on the 4-man liferaft we had on our sailboat, waves would just roll under it.  

 

The liferaft floors are all double thickness and can be inflated. SOLAS rafts must also be self-righting or reversible. With reversible rafts they are really 2 separate rafts with the floor in the middle. Below the floor you have a another canopy and they have at least 2 buoyancy chambers to keep them afloat, so they ride slightly above the waves.

 

Don't really get waves rolling under the rafts, as the entire raft tends to go up and down with the wave action.

 

The rafts also have numerous deep pockets underneath that fill with water to provide ballast and prevent them tipping.

[JeriGail]

After reading this, I need to take some ginger pills.

[Twitchly]

I’m suddenly pondering a land-based trip …

[Peregrina651]

Many thanks to @Heidi13 and @chengkp75 for taking the time to explain these technical things to us.   We might not like the details of what we are reading but it is comforting to know that someone who has worked on ships is giving us answers and clarifying details.

[FlyerTalker]

Far better than the old open wooden lifeboats.

 

Highly recommend you watch the Hitchcock classic "Lifeboat" from 1944, starring Tallulah Bankhead, William Bendix, Walter Slezak, John Hodiak and Hume Cronyn.  Available on Amazon Prime.

[MarkTapley]

13 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

Far better than the old open wooden lifeboats.

 

Highly recommend you watch the Hitchcock classic "Lifeboat" from 1944, starring Tallulah Bankhead, William Bendix, Walter Slezak, John Hodiak and Hume Cronyn.  Available on Amazon Prime.

Great movie, and very creative Hitchcock cameo appearance.