Horizon vs. replacement ships

[happywife0921]

I know that some upcoming cruises on Horizon are being canceled as its going into dry dock and I was just about to book a 3/2022 itinerary for mom’s birthday. Does anyone have any guess if the issue that needs repairing could possibly be fixed by March? If unlikely, are the replacement ships comparable in your opinion to the Horizon and worth still booking? Honestly, I’m usually just happy to be on a ship but there were some dining options we were looking forward to trying.

[Guest BasicSailor]

I feel she should be at sea by March . The replacements ships are nothing to be worried about, still fun is to be had. Horizon is rather nice upgrade from the two replacements though :).

[mz-s]

Carnival is planning to have Horizon back to cruising by January so unless things go horribly wrong during dry dock I expect she will certainly be operational by March. In particular, Sunshine is scheduled to resume service in Charleston on January 13 so Carnival has a fairly tight window here.

[Guest BasicSailor]

42 minutes ago, mz-s said:

Carnival is planning to have Horizon back to cruising by January so unless things go horribly wrong during dry dock I expect she will certainly be operational by March. In particular, Sunshine is scheduled to resume service in Charleston on January 13 so Carnival has a fairly tight window here.

Don't hold be to the point on this but I'm saying March on Sunshine.  And I do see her being offered for booking.

[tidecat]

Every other ship not based in Australia will be back in service by March, so if Horizon is still unavailable, those sailings would likely just be canceled - I suppose if Carnival got desperate they could move the Spirit and Splendor to the Caribbean, but even the amount of time it would take to move them from Dubai to Miami would likely be prohibitive - and that's assuming the ships don't need work themselves after being out of service for two years.

[bigrednole]

The replacement ships were built about 15-years prior. IMO, they are definitely downgrades. As for the issue, it has to be major mechanical failure. In all likelihood, it is a replacement of an engine. This could be many things in the assembly, but it is not a small task. Should it be fixed by March, probably.

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, bigrednole said:

The replacement ships were built about 15-years prior. IMO, they are definitely downgrades. As for the issue, it has to be major mechanical failure. In all likelihood, it is a replacement of an engine. This could be many things in the assembly, but it is not a small task. Should it be fixed by March, probably.

It's not an engine, it is an azipod issue, which should be repairable within 5-7 days.  The 20k hp XO azipods are common on cruise ships and ABB has spare units to install.

[happywife0921]

6 hours ago, tidecat said:

Every other ship not based in Australia will be back in service by March, so if Horizon is still unavailable, those sailings would likely just be canceled - I suppose if Carnival got desperate they could move the Spirit and Splendor to the Caribbean, but even the amount of time it would take to move them from Dubai to Miami would likely be prohibitive - and that's assuming the ships don't need work themselves after being out of service for two years.

That would be a bummer if they’re canceled. Just gonna book and keep fingers crossed.

[happywife0921]

13 hours ago, BasicSailor said:

I feel she should be at sea by March . The replacements ships are nothing to be worried about, still fun is to be had. Horizon is rather nice upgrade from the two replacements though :).

You’re right I’m sure we’d still have fun, but would be nice to experience the Horizon.

[groundloop]

5 hours ago, bigrednole said:

The replacement ships were built about 15-years prior. IMO, they are definitely downgrades......

 

I've never had the outcome of a cruise vacation determined solely by which ship I was on.  I sailed on Liberty a couple of years ago and she was one of my favorites.

[bigrednole]

1 minute ago, groundloop said:

 

I've never had the outcome of a cruise vacation determined solely by which ship I was on.  I sailed on Liberty a couple of years ago and she was one of my favorites.

So you would be OK with a ship from 1920? This is like saying booked the Ritz Carlton hotel, but they are putting me in a hourly rate motel. But hey, I am on vacation so it really doesn't matter.

[groundloop]

1 minute ago, bigrednole said:

So you would be OK with a ship from 1920? This is like saying booked the Ritz Carlton hotel, but they are putting me in a hourly rate motel. But hey, I am on vacation so it really doesn't matter.

I think you're getting carried away with the drama.

[bigrednole]

Just now, groundloop said:

I think you're getting carried away with the drama.

I think you are missing the point completely. I am happy for you that you are OK getting something subpar than what you paid for. That is great for you and your money. For me, it is not realistic and I would not pay the higher rate for the Horizon only to be handed the Liberty or Sunshine. They are inferior ships. To each their own. I want equivalent to what I paid for or get my money back. It is that simple. I am sure you are all ok with it leading up to it. But once you realize you aren't getting your money's worth, you will be complaining, signing petitions, and wanting to file lawsuits.

[CruiseJB]

8 hours ago, tidecat said:

Every other ship not based in Australia will be back in service by March, so if Horizon is still unavailable, those sailings would likely just be canceled - I suppose if Carnival got desperate they could move the Spirit and Splendor to the Caribbean, but even the amount of time it would take to move them from Dubai to Miami would likely be prohibitive - and that's assuming the ships don't need work themselves after being out of service for two years.

I would not cry if my February Horizon cruise got moved to the Splendor.  🙂  I adore that ship.  Of course my first ever cruise was on her so she holds a special place in my heart and I am bummed that she doesn't sail out of the US anymore.

[mz-s]

6 hours ago, bigrednole said:

I think you are missing the point completely. I am happy for you that you are OK getting something subpar than what you paid for. That is great for you and your money. For me, it is not realistic and I would not pay the higher rate for the Horizon only to be handed the Liberty or Sunshine. They are inferior ships. To each their own. I want equivalent to what I paid for or get my money back. It is that simple. I am sure you are all ok with it leading up to it. But once you realize you aren't getting your money's worth, you will be complaining, signing petitions, and wanting to file lawsuits.

 

Carnival offered those affected compensation to make up for the difference in experience due to the different ship, or a full refund.

 

So I don't understand why people are still acting like this is some big scandal. Just needless drama.

[Jenal2]

1 hour ago, bigrednole said:

So you would be OK with a ship from 1920? This is like saying booked the Ritz Carlton hotel, but they are putting me in a hourly rate motel. But hey, I am on vacation so it really doesn't matter.

Clearly just looking to start drama.  They posted a positive message (with their opinion) essentially saying that they wouldn't let the ship change ruin their trip and they will have a good time regardless of the ship they are on.  And you attack them for that?  You can be a glass-is-half-empty complainer if you want but don't attack other people for deciding to see the glass as half full.

[pogoism9]

9 hours ago, bigrednole said:

As for the issue, it has to be major mechanical failure.

It seems to be the same thing they already fixed on Vista a few years back, and same thing that also is affecting Panorama at this time. Not sure why they aren't pulling Panorama out of service as well since Miracle is in Long Beach too...

[chengkp75]

22 minutes ago, pogoism9 said:

It seems to be the same thing they already fixed on Vista a few years back, and same thing that also is affecting Panorama at this time. Not sure why they aren't pulling Panorama out of service as well since Miracle is in Long Beach too...

Probably because it is an "operating hour" thing.  It is most likely an azipod bearing failure (or imminent failure where they stop using it in normal conditions so it is available in emergency), and since the Vista is the oldest Vista class, it experienced it first, now the Horizon (next in class), and the Panorama is the newest, so the hours aren't up yet.  As they generate data on how the bearings last in Carnival's operation parameters, they will likely start to do preventative maintenance, like RCI does with the Oasis class ships, where they drydock them earlier than mandatory to overhaul the azipods, and then do another drydock for statutory reasons.  They have learned that the azipods won't make the 5 year docking, so they do a docking at 3-4 years as the schedule allows.

[Pellaz]

13 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

They have learned that the azipods won't make the 5 year docking, so they do a docking at 3-4 years as the schedule allows.

 

I remember the Liberty had a much more serious propulsion issue years ago now, where her max speed was reduced significantly and Carnival had to swap her out for short-distance cruises (Florida E. coast to Bahamas) for a while. 

At the time, you explained -- very well, as always! -- that the problem was in the windings or bushings (?) and it would require a drydock and cutting through the hull to resolve. 😮   

 

I'm assuming that Liberty eventually got fixed, although I don't actually know when.  (Anyone know?)  

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Pellaz
"duration" to "distance"

[jsglow]

Hmm. I actually prefer Sunshine to Horizon in many ways. 

[SNJCruisers]

On 12/6/2021 at 8:09 PM, happywife0921 said:

I know that some upcoming cruises on Horizon are being canceled as its going into dry dock and I was just about to book a 3/2022 itinerary for mom’s birthday. Does anyone have any guess if the issue that needs repairing could possibly be fixed by March? If unlikely, are the replacement ships comparable in your opinion to the Horizon and worth still booking? Honestly, I’m usually just happy to be on a ship but there were some dining options we were looking forward to trying.

Play it safe.  Book Mardi Gras

[Jenal2]

18 hours ago, jsglow said:

Hmm. I actually prefer Sunshine to Horizon in many ways. 

That sounds promising.  Please elaborate.  

[jimbo5544]

On 12/7/2021 at 2:58 PM, chengkp75 said:

Probably because it is an "operating hour" thing.  It is most likely an azipod bearing failure (or imminent failure where they stop using it in normal conditions so it is available in emergency), and since the Vista is the oldest Vista class, it experienced it first, now the Horizon (next in class), and the Panorama is the newest, so the hours aren't up yet.  As they generate data on how the bearings last in Carnival's operation parameters, they will likely start to do preventative maintenance, like RCI does with the Oasis class ships, where they drydock them earlier than mandatory to overhaul the azipods, and then do another drydock for statutory reasons.  They have learned that the azipods won't make the 5 year docking, so they do a docking at 3-4 years as the schedule allows.

I think you may have mentioned this prior in a different discussion, but what are your thoughts on Azipods in general?  Are they more prone to failure than other propulsions systems?

[richfret]

5 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

Play it safe.  Book Mardi Gras

I got a $600 Carnival cruise credit for 2 other cancelled cruises.  Also a $200 Horizon credit.  Then add a $50 TA credit.  I don't care what ship I cruise with, that will make it fun.  In addition, I expect what with cancellations and transfers, there will be fewer people on this cruise then would have been, so the Liberty will appear more spacious than the Horizon.  Plus, I am a Cruise-a-holic, so any cruise ship would do anyway.

[jimbo5544]

24 minutes ago, Jenal2 said:

That sounds promising.  Please elaborate.  

Throw in my 2 cents.  It really depends on what your expectations are of the cruise experience as it relates to the ship.  We have sailed the Sunshine twice and the Horizon three times.  On the Horizon, we mostly stay in a Havana Cabana room, one of our top choices (I am a balcony addict).  The offering of that area to us is a KEY component.  If that was not important, the ships become much more “comparable”..  I do understand the pain that comes thru from some of the posters here who are not happy, that said, we have had GREAT cruises on ships that lacked bells and buzzers because these ships did not offer all the “extras”.  Hope this helped.