Last straw on Cut backs

[terrierjohn]

3 hours ago, pete14 said:

Purely out of interest, how often do you change your towels at home?

I am not too bothered about the towels, we only have them changed when necessary, and we can ensure these are left out in the morning in future. However we always shower before dinner  and as our bathroom is a wet room, we do like having it cleaned and dried down during the evening service, and because we often have a tea or coffee during the day, it is nice to have clean crockery provided as well.  So we will certainly miss the evening turndown service.

[Windsurfboy]

1 hour ago, twotravellersLondon said:

 

Many cruise lines, including P&O, see the future as cruisers who are really up for it because they will spend, spend and spend. Even before covid, Carnival made a loss on the sales of cruise tickets. It was only the extra on-board spend that pushed the company over the line 

 

 

1 hour ago, Bazrat said:

Your right up to a point, with the age of most cruisers reducing year on year the company's just move with the times, all the paid for extras are the icing on the cake for the company's.

 

There is a big difference between how the age groups spend money.

 

Firstly it's a myth that older cruisers are poor , 90% of worlds wealth is in the hands of the over 60s. However the wealthier over 60s may spend much more on a cruise than the young , they are the core passengers of Silversea,  Seabourn and Saga etc. The revenue on these lines per passenger is some of the highest in the industry. 

 

Older passengers are not up for it on board , do not drink till they drop, not into Instagram pictures of their day at the spa or shop till they drop. But some like me do like a very good bottle of wine and speciality dining.

 

Once a cruise line relies on on board spend to make money , they are forced to become a carnival upselling every thing enterprise. You can see by the make up of the cabins on the two new big ships, get as many people on board. Only 25 out of 2500 cabins are suites (need a few for marketing pictures) real emphasis is density, small cabins getas many people on board as you can ,but get people out of cabins and spending 

 

Canny cruisers can exploit these cheap fares , but dont expect extras of old,  and be prepared to spend on the things you like.

 

 

[twotravellersLondon]

22 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Firstly it's a myth that older cruisers are poor , 90% of worlds wealth is in the hands of the over 60s. However the wealthier over 60s may spend much more on a cruise than the young , they are the core passengers of Silversea,  Seabourn and Saga etc. The revenue on these lines per passenger is some of the highest in the industry. 

 

That, in my opinion, is spot on.

 

But those cruise lines have a very different business plan to he P&Os and even the Fred Olsen's of this world. SAGA has recognised that the "Golden" Pound is still important but it has designed out canny cruisers by going balcony only and all inclusive.

 

These lines do make some of the highest returns in the industry, as you say, but everyone on board pays the gratuities, buys into the drinks package, the speciality dining, the excursions and such like... because it's part of the basic price.

 

 

[Ardennais]

Our onboard spend is very low. Not because we’re careful, but because there’s little I want to spend my money on. I don’t drink alcohol, and my husband very little. I always got the Costa card. We never go to speciality dining apart from the Glasshouse. We stopped buying photos after our first half a dozen cruises. I might do a bit of Bingo now and then. There’s simply nothing which takes my fancy in the shops. Not my style of clothing or bags. I did buy a watch once many years ago, but I only wear my Fitbit now. Our main spend is on excursions. We spend more in the ports of call, but nothing drastic there either. 

[Bazrat]

We use the specialty restaurants onboard, we also spend in the shops I like a drink beloved is teetotal so no different when we do land based holidays, we usually go self catering and eat out most nights drink in the local bars, we must be unusual.

[Vampiress88]

Regarding the turn down service. 
 

if I am having my room turned into bunk beds as there are 4 of us then surely they will come and do that for me won’t they? 

[terrierjohn]

Just now, Vampiress88 said:

Regarding the turn down service. 
 

if I am having my room turned into bunk beds as there are 4 of us then surely they will come and do that for me won’t they? 

I would very much hope so Vamps, I am not sure we have had anyone who has used a stateroom with bunk beds posting, but I would expect your bunk beds will be made up by the steward.

[jeanlyon]

1 hour ago, Ardennais said:

Our onboard spend is very low. Not because we’re careful, but because there’s little I want to spend my money on. I don’t drink alcohol, and my husband very little. I always got the Costa card. We never go to speciality dining apart from the Glasshouse. We stopped buying photos after our first half a dozen cruises. I might do a bit of Bingo now and then. There’s simply nothing which takes my fancy in the shops. Not my style of clothing or bags. I did buy a watch once many years ago, but I only wear my Fitbit now. Our main spend is on excursions. We spend more in the ports of call, but nothing drastic there either. 

You sound like us.  We do like a drink before dinner and a bottle of wine with the meal  
Even then, we tend not to drink it all, so it arrives back the following evening (or it used to)  Don't do excursions, much prefer to go ashore independently.  Never buy anything in the shops.   I have enough jewellery and a watch.  Don't need a bag with a designer label either!

 

I don't care if the beds aren't turned down in the evening and never have room service.

[grapau27]

There was no turn down service on Iona during our recent cruise.

We actually told the cabin steward to leave our room alone like the hotels have done for some time because of covid.

I got plenty of clean towels every morning from the trolley and put our used towels in the dirty towel container in the corridor.

Our cabin steward only came in our cabin about 4 times during our 14 night cruise.

The free coffee in the restaurants was instant coffee and not nice but the coffee in Epicurean was nice filter coffee.

The food in The Quays was very good but so so in the buffet.

The 4 free main restaurants the food was good and there was plenty of waiters who tried their best to please.

The food and service in Epicurean was excellent.

The bar service was excellent with plenty of wait staff.

There was no loyalty event but we got a drink voucher each for sail away and a drink voucher each from the loyalty team in place of the loyalty event.

[Britboys]

Bobblehat in post #9 has also hit another nail on the head regarding P&O's confused identity. This is a point I have made before. They are trying to be all things to all passengers and that really isn't an easy balance. The vast majority of major cruise lines have a fairly standardised fleet. P&O now has 'little old Aurora' through to 'gigantic shiny new Iona', all in a fleet of only 6, soon to be 7

. It is very obvious just looking online that the on-board experience will differ hugely between the smallest and largest ships in the fleet.

As has also been said earlier in this thread, on ships such as Iona, the emphasis is on getting as many pax on board as possible and getting them to collectively spend as much as possible - either on expensive items or by shelling out little but often.

It is obviously business sense but I am sure that P&O has accepted that as they introduce changes across the fleet as a result of the new ships, they will lose some of us more longstanding customers.

 

The other potential problem for P&O is around perception of customer service. For example, my Aurora cruise this year was due to call at Venice but due to the restrictions introduced by the Venetian Authorities, is now calling at Trieste instead. I was informed by letter which just stated that all excursions had been cancelled and would be refunded and that new excursions would be available. End of. Someone on the Marella CC Board has posted that the same has happened to them but they are being provided with free coach transfers to Venice and £50 obc per adult. P&O's reputation has certainly suffered since the pandemic hit but they don't show any sign of trying to improve it again.

[AuroraCruiser08]

I would also like to add that P&O as a product because of the point stated above are behind what we are seeing on the likes of Princess, HAL, Marella, etc with the onboard extras. Included excursions in some ports, drink packages (princess Plus) , etc. The US based brands are moving with the times and giving passages more while I feel (I love P&O) P&O are going backwards in some aspects and I do believe the diversity of the fleet doesn't help (Aurora is our favorite but we don't mind the larger ships too) what would work is if P&O marketed Aurora differently say as a different type of product that would really blow other competitors out the market on that size of ship while having the newer ships focusing on a separate market for example. 

[Waju]

8 hours ago, AuroraCruiser08 said:

I would also like to add that P&O as a product because of the point stated above are behind what we are seeing on the likes of Princess, HAL, Marella, etc with the onboard extras. Included excursions in some ports, drink packages (princess Plus) , etc. The US based brands are moving with the times and giving passages more while I feel (I love P&O) P&O are going backwards in some aspects and I do believe the diversity of the fleet doesn't help (Aurora is our favorite but we don't mind the larger ships too) what would work is if P&O marketed Aurora differently say as a different type of product that would really blow other competitors out the market on that size of ship while having the newer ships focusing on a separate market for example. 

Aurora is our favourite too, after spending 88 nights on her when we did three quarters of a world cruise she instantly feels like home now as soon as we step aboard.

 

AuroraCruiser08 makes a great point, why not market the ships differently?  I know this is a bit of a generalisation but surely most Aurora/Arcadia cruisers are 'golden cruisers' while Iona/Arvia will be much younger - so cater for them differently.  I don't go into the shops anymore either (unless it's for alcohol!) but the clothing and handbags etc on Aurora would be laughed at by younger cruisers on Iona, so why not cater differently for them?  If they already do I'm sorry - not been on Iona yet - four weeks to go.  I wish they would make the shops more 'normal' - there could be an M&S or John Lewis on the smaller ships while having younger shoppers choices on the larger ones.  I would probably go in M&S/JL type shops and spend money but the current shops don't interest me at all, everyone knows they are overpriced and nearly everything can be bought cheaper when you get home.

 

Entertainment could be more tailored to fit the age groups too, Aurora used to have a night club in Masquerades but the DJ always used to only have himself to play too.  Quizzes that suit a 'golden' cruiser would be lost on someone in their 20's or 30's and vice versa of course.

 

I'm sorry for rambling but I think that marketing them differently and doing it REALLY well is a great idea.

[Ardennais]

10 hours ago, Bazrat said:

We use the specialty restaurants onboard, we also spend in the shops I like a drink beloved is teetotal so no different when we do land based holidays, we usually go self catering and eat out most nights drink in the local bars, we must be unusual.

We do a lot of self-catering and always eat out or have take aways in the evenings. We don’t want to cook on holiday! Different on a cruise - apart from the Glasshouse lunch time, I don’t feel the need to use the speciality restaurants as the MDR/buffet suits us just fine. 
With regard to the shops on board, we often travelled as 3 generations. My mother loves shopping, and is a very trendy 70+, and there was simply nothing that took her fancy - hard to believe, but true. Nothing that I wanted and certainly nothing that took the fancy of my 3 children in their 20s. 
My children like using spas, beauty salons etc, and they were horrified at the prices on board. 
If they want to increase onboard spend, they have to provide a better offering. How about a fun photo booth? They’re very popular at weddings around here and would be something different. 

[Selbourne]

I have long thought that P&O should spin off the adult only ships into a sub-brand and market them very differently. The two ships that we have cruised on most are Aurora and Britannia. The average passenger age on Aurora has usually been 30 years higher than on Britannia. That’s not me guessing or generalising, by the way, that’s based on what we’ve been told by the Captain at the welcome on board receptions (e.g. last 2 cruises, Britannia average age 45, Aurora 75). Traditional cruisers are often looking for a very different experience to first time cruisers (P&O’s new target audience). 
 

Regarding the cutbacks, I think that most of us are getting tired of the “because of Covid” excuse being used by all service companies (not just cruise lines) to cut costs, but cruise lines are in a perilous state at present. The ongoing reduced passenger numbers, (brought about by their insistence on maintaining ‘quarantine zones’ and many of us not finding cruising attractive whilst testing and the risk of quarantine or disembarkation remains), means that their profits continue to be suppressed. I guess that they have no choice but to scrutinise everything and save money where they can. Personally, the lack of a turndown service wouldn’t bother us and we make our own hot drinks in the cabin so we could live with these minor cutbacks. 

[Waju]

3 minutes ago, Ardennais said:

My mother loves shopping, and is a very trendy 70+, and there was simply nothing that took her fancy - hard to believe, but true. Nothing that I wanted and certainly nothing that took the fancy of my 3 children in their 20s. 
My children like using spas, beauty salons etc, and they were horrified at the prices on board. 
If they want to increase onboard spend, they have to provide a better offering. How about a fun photo booth? They’re very popular at weddings around here and would be something different. 

Some great ideas there Ardennais, do you think we should all put our heads together and become consultants 😉

 

The spa is very expensive and I imagine they would get many more customers if they were reasonably priced.  It's not really my thing but I would enjoy a massage at a good price - it would be something different for me.  On board hairdressers make me smile because unless you're on a really long cruise all the ladies I know would get their hair cut/coloured before they they go on holiday - and their nails come to that - so other than a blowdry for formal night they wouldn't have much to do.  The spa/beauty area takes up a lot of precious deck space too.  I would expect that most money spent in those areas is OBC, probably that spent in the shops too.

 

I wonder if any cruise companies actually ask their target demographic what would be a good idea on board?  I've heard the new Virgin ship has a tattoo parlour, this horrifies me but my two young nieces would think this was amazing! 

[Waju]

11 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I have long thought that P&O should spin off the adult only ships into a sub-brand and market them very differently. The two ships that we have cruised on most are Aurora and Britannia. The average passenger age on Aurora has usually been 30 years higher than on Britannia. That’s not me guessing or generalising, by the way, that’s based on what we’ve been told by the Captain at the welcome on board receptions (e.g. last 2 cruises, Britannia average age 45, Aurora 75). Traditional cruisers are often looking for a very different experience to first time cruisers (P&O’s new target audience). 
 

Regarding the cutbacks, I think that most of us are getting tired of the “because of Covid” excuse being used by all service companies (not just cruise lines) to cut costs, but cruise lines are in a perilous state at present. The ongoing reduced passenger numbers, (brought about by their insistence on maintaining ‘quarantine zones’ and many of us not finding cruising attractive whilst testing and the risk of quarantine or disembarkation remains), means that their profits continue to be suppressed. I guess that they have no choice but to scrutinise everything and save money where they can. Personally, the lack of a turndown service wouldn’t bother us and we make our own hot drinks in the cabin so we could live with these minor cutbacks. 

Selbourne your wise words could have come straight from my mouth 🙂

 

P&O (and others too) need to give customers/passengers what they want soon or they won't be there to give them anything at all.  I understand we may all want different things but it was (mostly) working before covid,  wasn't it?

 

Slightly off topic but I would like to see some different places to visit on the likes of Aurora/Arcadia - there are only so many times you can go to Gibraltar, Barcelona, Lisbon, Cadiz etc etc.  I'd like a 28 night Greek Islands cruise please.

 

 

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, Waju said:

Aurora is our favourite too, after spending 88 nights on her when we did three quarters of a world cruise she instantly feels like home now as soon as we step aboard.

 

AuroraCruiser08 makes a great point, why not market the ships differently?  I know this is a bit of a generalisation but surely most Aurora/Arcadia cruisers are 'golden cruisers' while Iona/Arvia will be much younger - so cater for them differently.  I don't go into the shops anymore either (unless it's for alcohol!) but the clothing and handbags etc on Aurora would be laughed at by younger cruisers on Iona, so why not cater differently for them?  If they already do I'm sorry - not been on Iona yet - four weeks to go.  I wish they would make the shops more 'normal' - there could be an M&S or John Lewis on the smaller ships while having younger shoppers choices on the larger ones.  I would probably go in M&S/JL type shops and spend money but the current shops don't interest me at all, everyone knows they are overpriced and nearly everything can be bought cheaper when you get home.

 

Entertainment could be more tailored to fit the age groups too, Aurora used to have a night club in Masquerades but the DJ always used to only have himself to play too.  Quizzes that suit a 'golden' cruiser would be lost on someone in their 20's or 30's and vice versa of course.

 

I'm sorry for rambling but I think that marketing them differently and doing it REALLY well is a great idea.

Some interesting points.

Aurora and Arcadia are Adults Only so already marketed differently.

Iona had ships own merchandise plus Joules,Ray Ban sunglasses, jewellery plus a good selection of After Shaves,perfume, face creams etc at good prices with regular daily offers.

Iona had a sweet shop and pharmacy sundries too.

[Ardennais]

22 minutes ago, grapau27 said:

Some interesting points.

Aurora and Arcadia are Adults Only so already marketed differently.

Iona had ships own merchandise plus Joules,Ray Ban sunglasses, jewellery plus a good selection of After Shaves,perfume, face creams etc at good prices with regular daily offers.

Iona had a sweet shop and pharmacy sundries too.

I have my regular skin routine/make-up products and nothing onboard would entice me to change. I love Dior perfumes but can get them cheaper online. How many pairs of Ray Bans does one need?!  The sweet shop sounds good though. Joules to me is rather staid. 
I don’t really know what they could offer really. I’m not a shopper in general!  

 

[twotravellersLondon]

11 hours ago, AuroraCruiser08 said:

what would work is if P&O marketed Aurora differently say as a different type of product that would really blow other competitors out the market on that size of ship while having the newer ships focusing on a separate market for example. 

 

Personally I think that would be a brilliant idea in many ways... vintage style cruising aimed at a more experienced, more travelled, mature demographic who want a more relaxed, cruise experience. 

 

Maybe even the chance to be able to explore a much wider range of ports at a more leisurely pace. An appropriate entertainment offering and food offerings that either up to the standard of a good gastro-pub or a decent restaurant. And... a chance to explore independently on shore... with onboard advice and assistance at arranging busses, taxies and the like. 

 

However, I do think that the cost pppd would be higher. SAGA have gone down this route and their prices this year are £230-£290ish pppd. Pre-covid Fred Olsen muted "600 passenger exploration ships" at a starting price of £300 pppd and other lines are often more expensive.

 

The question is... are there enough people around willing to pay those sorts of prices and blow other competitors out the market?

[Guest]

I sailed on the Azura over Christmas, and it was quite clear to see there had been many cutbacks. Here is just a few I encountered:

- White company products now nailed to the wall

- No evening turn down service (and no pillow chocolates

- Formal night just wasn’t as it was. No officers around, no drinks (well, one token for one glass of fizz). 
- Food quality has gone down hill. Portions smaller in the MDR. We were served tinned carrots with our Christmas meals, uncooked roast potatoes. Buffet selection was very limited with barely any salad during lunch. 
- Not being able to sit at a bar led to lack of interaction with bar staff and fellow passengers 

- Cabin wasn’t kept up to scratch. Rust on balcony, bird poo everywhere, linen with holes in it. 
 

We had a fantastic time, but put the cutbacks down to covid. We then went on the Celebrity Silhouette in February and the only cut back we saw was the free glass of fizz on embarkation had gone.

Still had turn down service, you could dance, sit at the bar, food had actually got better (it was very good to start with!). No mask requirement helped, and it honestly felt like a pre-covid cruise. 
 

P&O are obviously using covid as an example to make cut backs. It’s not all other cruise lines. 
 

(and the Celebrity cruise was cheaper and included drinks and wifi!)

 

Unless prices are dropped, I won’t be booking P&O for a while. 

[Bazrat]

7 minutes ago, Glitterati said:

I sailed on the Azura over Christmas, and it was quite clear to see there had been many cutbacks. Here is just a few I encountered:

- White company products now nailed to the wall

- No evening turn down service (and no pillow chocolates

- Formal night just wasn’t as it was. No officers around, no drinks (well, one token for one glass of fizz). 
- Food quality has gone down hill. Portions smaller in the MDR. We were served tinned carrots with our Christmas meals, uncooked roast potatoes. Buffet selection was very limited with barely any salad during lunch. 
- Not being able to sit at a bar led to lack of interaction with bar staff and fellow passengers 

- Cabin wasn’t kept up to scratch. Rust on balcony, bird poo everywhere, linen with holes in it. 
 

We had a fantastic time, but put the cutbacks down to covid. We then went on the Celebrity Silhouette in February and the only cut back we saw was the free glass of fizz on embarkation had gone.

Still had turn down service, you could dance, sit at the bar, food had actually got better (it was very good to start with!). No mask requirement helped, and it honestly felt like a pre-covid cruise. 
 

P&O are obviously using covid as an example to make cut backs. It’s not all other cruise lines. 
 

(and the Celebrity cruise was cheaper and included drinks and wifi!)

 

Unless prices are dropped, I won’t be booking P&O for a while. 

You will also find that the free and easy attitude to COVID of celebrity ships is why they had more cases onboard, I much prefer the better safe than sorry attitude of p&o, as for the uncooked roast potatoes taking a wild guess you ment undercooked.

[Shipsareus]

We are booked on the 19 night cruise on Arcadia in June. We have paid virtually the same price as we paid for a 17 night trip on Aurora in 2009.  Both in deluxe balcony cabins. We did get more OBC on the Aurora cruise., but we were astounded at the similarity of prices considering they are 12 years apart. The cost of the June Arcadia cruise has risen dramatically since we booked, so we are more than happy with what we have paid. 
 I do think prices will rise and some cutbacks are inevitable. Each individual has to decide whether no turndown service, no chocolate etc significantly affects their enjoyment of the cruise.

I think the suggestion of rebranding the smaller ships is a good one, and certainly something we would be interested in. 
We don’t travel exclusively with P&O and our next three cruises are with three different companies. I do think that all cruise lines have suffered significantly and it may be that it is those who listen carefully to what the passengers want are the ones who survive.

[Megabear2]

7 minutes ago, Glitterati said:

I sailed on the Azura over Christmas, and it was quite clear to see there had been many cutbacks. Here is just a few I encountered:

- White company products now nailed to the wall

- No evening turn down service (and no pillow chocolates

- Formal night just wasn’t as it was. No officers around, no drinks (well, one token for one glass of fizz). 
- Food quality has gone down hill. Portions smaller in the MDR. We were served tinned carrots with our Christmas meals, uncooked roast potatoes. Buffet selection was very limited with barely any salad during lunch. 
- Not being able to sit at a bar led to lack of interaction with bar staff and fellow passengers 

- Cabin wasn’t kept up to scratch. Rust on balcony, bird poo everywhere, linen with holes in it. 
 

We had a fantastic time, but put the cutbacks down to covid. We then went on the Celebrity Silhouette in February and the only cut back we saw was the free glass of fizz on embarkation had gone.

Still had turn down service, you could dance, sit at the bar, food had actually got better (it was very good to start with!). No mask requirement helped, and it honestly felt like a pre-covid cruise. 
 

P&O are obviously using covid as an example to make cut backs. It’s not all other cruise lines. 
 

(and the Celebrity cruise was cheaper and included drinks and wifi!)

 

Unless prices are dropped, I won’t be booking P&O for a while. 

Britannia at Christmas definitely had smaller menu choice and I struggled to find variety in salads at lunchtime.  However the food standard was high in the MDR.  We ate three times in Epicurean and two dinner shows at the Limelight and service and quality was as good if not better than pre Covid.  I however missed the grab and go option on deck as it used to offer sandwiches and salads as a quick healthier option.  Truthfully couldn't see any need to remove that. In fairness it was a bit of a new ballgame for them at the time. 

 

The ship was in good condition and the crew consisted of a lot of people we knew well which was great.  Personally loved that cruise but we did have extremely reduced numbers onboard and only one known Covid case.

 

Regarding White Company products I believe it was always intended to move to large dispensers to cut back plastic waste.  Our room attendant knocked first day and asked if we would like bottles of conditioner and body lotion which I accepted gratefully.  Midway through without asking he left two more bottles as well. I recall RCI offering only one bottled all purpose concoctions nailed to the wall on Allure and the P&O offering was far superior to that.

 

I am taking my first post Covid Celebrity cruise on the Edge in June so will be interesting to see the differences.

 

I must admit I am alarmed about the reports of the condition of some of the P&O ships that are coming out but as my main choice is normally Britannia haven't experienced a problem.  During the lay ups I did a lot of local boat trips around the ships in Torbay and Weymouth and would say Arcadia, Aurora and Ventura definitely looked a little sad at that time, but then so did the QM2 and the reports of those back onboard her saying she's in fabulous condition.

 

 

[Megabear2]

30 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

You will also find that the free and easy attitude to COVID of celebrity ships is why they had more cases onboard, I much prefer the better safe than sorry attitude of p&o, as for the uncooked roast potatoes taking a wild guess you ment undercooked.

On my seacation last year I ordered fish and chips in the main dining room and the fish in batter arrived frozen and uncooked in the middle, therefore I don't doubt that uncooked potatoes could have appeared!!

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

You will also find that the free and easy attitude to COVID of celebrity ships is why they had more cases onboard, I much prefer the better safe than sorry attitude of p&o, as for the uncooked roast potatoes taking a wild guess you ment undercooked.

We had 3 cases on Silhouette, and the Captain announced case numbers daily. 
 

On Azura there were at least 30 people in quarantine cabins that we could see. We also spoke to many people who knew friends who had tested positive. We had to send crew over to the Victoria via Tender whilst tendered off St Lucia! We were left in the dark and had no correspondence over the cases onboard 
 

I called the potatoes uncooked as I don’t think they had even seen the oven. Even the waiter agreed.