RCi Definitely back to not so good old ways.

[Cruise5life]

1 hour ago, iuki said:

Sounds a little harsh.  He didn’t say it was RCI’s fault.

Well he kinda did. Right in his title.    But I understand wanting to vent.   
 

I’ve read his entire blog and this post.   Such a nightmare for sure.    
hands down the main reason you make sure to get insurance.    
honestly I wouldn’t be able to put out the close to 50k cash for evac with out having some time to get it together that’s for sure.   
I have a big 30 day trip coming up in Jan and not only am I getting  the ships insurance I’m also buying a separate medical policy as cheap back up coverage with GeoBlue.    
 

wishing the OP and his wife the best and speedy recovery.    

[Tee & Chilli]

Sorry to hear of your wife’s medical issues. I’m sure it’s been a bumpy road. Wishing brighter days ahead.

[3kidsncats]

10 hours ago, rimmit said:

I have dealt a lot with travel insurance lately due to the accident in zimbabwe filing claims with them.  They will consider this a cancellation and not interruption as we never started the trip.  
 

Trip cancellation was not an offered option for some reason, likely because we booked so close to the actual sailing date that they did not think cancellation was a realistic benefit.  

Your trip did start — you left your home and went to Disney.  As soon as you loaded up the car and drove away from home, your trip started.

 

 

[3kidsncats]

8 hours ago, Airbear232 said:

I am truly sorry for your wife’s previous accident and hope she soon recuperates fully.  However, your words “as a physician” - did you not evaluate your wife’s condition prior to going on a long drive, spending a day at Disney and expecting to get on a cruise for a few days with no issues?  Royal’s present policy is well documented.  Any culpability lies with you, an intelligent rational being. 

Physicians no longer get a crystal ball with their medical license.  They actually have to wait until symptoms present to initiate a diagnosis.

 

[3kidsncats]

6 hours ago, RD64 said:

I have gone through this entire thread but I am confused. Are you blaming Royal for not accommodating you for something that is not their fault or problem? 
 

They are trying to run a business profitably, and if they have to bend the rules for every person that has an issue ( for which they should be responsible for) there won’t be much of a business left, and cruise fares will rise dramatically. We can’t have our cake and eat it too.

He finds it upsetting that the cruise line thinks it’s ok for people who know they are sick to be encouraged to board anyways. It is in the best interest for society in general if schools, workplaces and places like cruise ships, try to mitigate spread of illness by creating a system that encourages sick people to stay home until they are recovered 

[3kidsncats]

5 hours ago, rimmit said:

Long story short, I was very frustrated for a number of reasons due to a variety of frustrations over the last 3.5 months.  I came on here ranting full well I would snapped back to reason, knowing how the forum would react to my rant snapping me back to reason.  Luckily (or unluckily) she ended up testing positive for covid on her third try so we should get an FCC.  
 

I did buy travel insurance,  but due to the closeness of the trip from when we made final payment as we booked last second, there was no trip cancellation option in the benefits.   I actually do have trip cancellation via my CC though so I could file that if I get denied by RCI.

 

I do find the paradigm shift on the forum quite interesting.    During precovid during rota or flu outbreaks,  there’d be a ton of people on here harping about all the people and kids sniffling and coughing at embarkation and how dare they go on the cruise with those symptoms.  I remember those forum posts vividly as I was particularly sensitive to them as I have to younger kids and everyone would always pick on kids for getting on ships with colds.  Post covid, everyone has now seemed to flip onto the other end of the spectrum and that it’s on the onus of the people to protect themselves from illness and it’s now perfectly ok to board the ship in whatever condition.  I am perfectly fine with the new paradigm shift, just thought it was interesting what a difference a pandemic makes.

I am so sorry to hear about everything you and your wife have gone through — I know it has caused a tremendous amount of stress for you, that has a detrimental effect on your overall well-being.  I’m sure you both really needed this getaway, and I sincerely hope you are able to reschedule it soon.  I applaud you for making the difficult decision to not board.  It was the right thing to do, and you don’t deserve the pushback you’re getting here.  Warm regards to your wife and hope she has a quick recovery from Covid.  And thank you for sharing your experience — it made me feel a lot better about the travel insurance policy I bought today for our cruise later this month.  We have coverage with our CC, but not medical, so I went ahead and spent the $200 to be well insured.  It feels a lot more like money well spent after reading your post.

 

[gumshoe958]

42 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

He finds it upsetting that the cruise line thinks it’s ok for people who know they are sick to be encouraged to board anyways. It is in the best interest for society in general if schools, workplaces and places like cruise ships, try to mitigate spread of illness by creating a system that encourages sick people to stay home until they are recovered 

Indeed. Problem is, the cruise lines know that a blanket policy of giving a refund or FCC to anyone who claims to be sick would be widely abused. I’ve seen many posts right here on CC encouraging people who want to cancel last minute to falsely claim they have Covid. If there’s a loophole, it’ll be exploited.

 

Far better, in RC’s eyes, to play hardball and have people who are genuinely sick claim on their travel insurance which, after all, is exactly what it’s intended for.

[rimmit]

5 hours ago, Cruise5life said:

Well he kinda did. Right in his title.    But I understand wanting to vent.   
 

I’ve read his entire blog and this post.   Such a nightmare for sure.    
hands down the main reason you make sure to get insurance.    
honestly I wouldn’t be able to put out the close to 50k cash for evac with out having some time to get it together that’s for sure.   
I have a big 30 day trip coming up in Jan and not only am I getting  the ships insurance I’m also buying a separate medical policy as cheap back up coverage with GeoBlue.    
 

wishing the OP and his wife the best and speedy recovery.    

The title really didn’t indicate blame I felt, but if it did, again I apologize for the misleading title. Thanks for the well wishes.  She’ll get there.  She’s a fighter and very determined to walk again.

[rimmit]

2 hours ago, gumshoe958 said:

Indeed. Problem is, the cruise lines know that a blanket policy of giving a refund or FCC to anyone who claims to be sick would be widely abused. I’ve seen many posts right here on CC encouraging people who want to cancel last minute to falsely claim they have Covid. If there’s a loophole, it’ll be exploited.

 

Far better, in RC’s eyes, to play hardball and have people who are genuinely sick claim on their travel insurance which, after all, is exactly what it’s intended for.

I agree they need to play hardball.  Just impressed how fast they went to hardball after a pandemic, thinking there may have been a period where they’d slowly start being less strict and having some goodwill gestures. 
 

The number of times we have had things go wrong at Disney and they always make goodwill gestures is more than I can count.   They always bend policies just to make you feel better when things go bad.  For example,  when we had to leave the park early due to her being sick we had to miss a reservation.  That came with a $10/person penalty.  We talked to a cast member fully expecting to pay it, but they said no charge and not to worry about it.  I know it’s a big difference between that and a 2k cruise, but that’s just not the only time and the sheer number of times I have been OVERCOMENSATED by Disney for inconveniences is unreal.   
 

Ultimately, it’s RCI’s policy to enforce and I accept that.  And all’s well that ends well.  Have two options to get my money back so at least one will go through hopefully.

[rimmit]

(continued from above.   For some reason it uploaded before I was done and wouldn’t let me edit)
 

Ultimately, it’s RCI’s policy to enforce and I accept that, just sad that RCI flipped back to their normal old strict policies so fast when we are still at the waning end of a pandemic.   People are assuming a business would go broke because of the handful of people that would try and abuse a more lenient policy.   The opposite would argue that they could charge more and thrive due to improved customer service and just consider the abuse the cost of doing business which is what most businesses do.   The amount Walmart’s and Lowe’s return policy gets abused is absolute madness.   Walmart doesn’t care as they know if they get you in the building you are spending money.  Lowe’s has some of the most expensive prices in the home improvement industry.
 

Disney charges an absurd amount for anything these days, as the Disney guest service is top notch and I have never left upset with them.  I have no doubt some of their policies get abused and they know that.  
 

Policies are in place everywhere,  but they are bent on many occasion as well, on a case by case basis.  You put a policy in place in a hospital so you have something to stand on when you don’t want to comply with a patient or families request.  We bend them in extraordinary circumstances, but enforce them 98 percent of the time.
 

Edited October 8, 2022 by rimmit

[twangster]

Sorry for everything that has happened up to this point and I hope your wife begins to feel better soon.  

 

As far as Royal's position it does appear they should work on their wording which appears to suggest you should board with whatever possible infection may be present as long as it isn't "COVID-19".  There has to be a better way to handle this scenario independent of the financial impact of no refund/no FCC which clearly they should not be expected to provide.

 

Perhaps they are hesitant to state you shouldn't board as that implies they are instructing you not to cruise which could have implications in a legal or financial sense.  For example if they "deny" you boarding (by telling you not to board) then a credit card company could look at that as if Royal failed as a merchant to provide the service you purchased.  

 

Disney charges outrageous prices so they can bury losses and still be profitable.  As a company that is their prerogative to take this approach.  That doesn't mean every other company on the planet should follow the Disney way.   

 

As a consumer I don't want to overpay for my purchases so that others can not follow policy.   I feel terrible for everything your family is going through but I don't think Royal should deviate from their policy and grant you a refund or FCC.  I state this as I myself will probably walk away from a cruise in a week knowing all I'll get back is port fees and taxes.  My personal situation has changed since I booked this cruise and now with a week to go I accept that's on me.  No refund, no FCC, no attempt will be made to lie or fake a false positive or any other means to weasel a refund.  At this point unless there is a pop up hurricane induced refund option I will lose my money and I accept that is on me.  

[rimmit]

20 minutes ago, twangster said:

Sorry for everything that has happened up to this point and I hope your wife begins to feel better soon.  

 

As far as Royal's position it does appear they should work on their wording which appears to suggest you should board with whatever possible infection may be present as long as it isn't "COVID-19".  There has to be a better way to handle this scenario independent of the financial impact of no refund/no FCC which clearly they should not be expected to provide.

 

Perhaps they are hesitant to state you shouldn't board as that implies they are instructing you not to cruise which could have implications in a legal or financial sense.  For example if they "deny" you boarding (by telling you not to board) then a credit card company could look at that as if Royal failed as a merchant to provide the service you purchased.  

 

Disney charges outrageous prices so they can bury losses and still be profitable.  As a company that is their prerogative to take this approach.  That doesn't mean every other company on the planet should follow the Disney way.   

 

As a consumer I don't want to overpay for my purchases so that others can not follow policy.   I feel terrible for everything your family is going through but I don't think Royal should deviate from their policy and grant you a refund or FCC.  I state this as I myself will probably walk away from a cruise in a week knowing all I'll get back is port fees and taxes.  My personal situation has changed since I booked this cruise and now with a week to go I accept that's on me.  No refund, no FCC, no attempt will be made to lie or fake a false positive or any other means to weasel a refund.  At this point unless there is a pop up hurricane induced refund option I will lose my money and I accept that is on me.  

We have taken hits on cruises before that were on us, in the days before we we’re buying travel insurance and only got back our port fees and taxes, so this is not the first time.  That was completely our fault and I accepted that wholeheartedly.  
 

I never said they should take that approach.  Simply stated it can be highly profitable as some on here have implied RCI would go bankrupt if they were more flexible with their policy exceptions goodwill gestures.   Goodwill gestures are in every industry from my mechanic that works on my car, to retail, medicine, law, etc.

 

Again, I state this was just salt on some very tender wounds (figuratively and literally).   Dating back to December, we caught covid in Galapagos and got stuck in Ecuador, I had to leave the Inca trail mid trail in April to deal with an emergency on the home front, my wife was run over by a car in Zimbabwe, and our impromptu Disney trip lasted 1/2 day (a whole day shorter than the Zimbabwe trip) before we had to eject from that.  I am 0/4 on recent trips.  Dealing with travel insurance is not fun.   The Galapagos claim went through shockingly fast,  but I’m still waiting on the rest and I call weekly, but they state “they have no estimated time to review the claims.”   
 

At this point if I dont get an FCC that is a deviation from the policy, as she did end up with Covid and per policy we are due a FCC so I am unsure what you mean by that.   I am sure the FCC will be totally messed up though as all of my other ones have been.

Edited October 8, 2022 by rimmit

[3kidsncats]

6 hours ago, gumshoe958 said:

Indeed. Problem is, the cruise lines know that a blanket policy of giving a refund or FCC to anyone who claims to be sick would be widely abused. I’ve seen many posts right here on CC encouraging people who want to cancel last minute to falsely claim they have Covid. If there’s a loophole, it’ll be exploited.

 

Far better, in RC’s eyes, to play hardball and have people who are genuinely sick claim on their travel insurance which, after all, is exactly what it’s intended for.

Of course, but if a company plays ball too hard, they also run the risk of alienating their customers to the point that they go elsewhere.  

[Airbear232]

20 hours ago, rimmit said:

At this point she is just doing PT so she can hopefully walk again and 6 months oral antibiotics for her bone infection.

 

Plastics and ID both signed off on the vacation as at this point she’s just on autopilot just doing PT 3 X a week.   If anything,  they have been encouraging her to get out and be more active after 3+ months of minimal activity.  The main thing is no pool, and no beach which we were fine with.

Best wishes to you both. 

[barbeyg]

23 hours ago, CanHardlyWait4NextYear said:

Look at it this way. If your wife doesn't feel that great. There's nothing better then your own bed. And now you have the fun of planning the next trip. Bigger and better. Maybe time to add a surprise or two for her. 

I agree. I’m sure the OP will agree after some time has passed, and the disappointment fades a bit.  I got the flu on the first trip my husband and I went on together, and my poor husband had to drive 5 hours back home with me sick.  I just wanted to be in my own bed, and he made that happen. It is awful to be sick when away from home.

 

OP, I am so sorry you guys have been thru all these struggles, and I am thankful your wife isn’t doing any worse than she is, given the awful situation in Zimbabwe.  I hope you are both able to enjoy time away soon. I understand the disappointment over not being able to cruise.

[rimmit]

19 minutes ago, barbeyg said:

I agree. I’m sure the OP will agree after some time has passed, and the disappointment fades a bit.  I got the flu on the first trip my husband and I went on together, and my poor husband had to drive 5 hours back home with me sick.  I just wanted to be in my own bed, and he made that happen. It is awful to be sick when away from home.

 

OP, I am so sorry you guys have been thru all these struggles, and I am thankful your wife isn’t doing any worse than she is, given the awful situation in Zimbabwe.  I hope you are both able to enjoy time away soon. I understand the disappointment over not being able to cruise.

I’m already over it at this point.   After having 4 vacations this year interrupted, it’s become the new norm sadly.   This one stung particularly bad due to some personal reasons that brought us to FL to begin with.  Time to plan the next vacation that will almost assuredly get interrupted as well.  Each vacation has gotten shorter in time from beginning to interruption.  We got 10 days into the Galapagos, 3 days in Peru, 1.5 days in Zimbabwe and 0.5 days this time.   We’re not leaving the house before the next one gets interrupted.  Lol.

[JupiterTwo]

On 10/7/2022 at 2:57 PM, rimmit said:

So unfortunately after driving to Orlando from KY and going to Disney for half a day, midway through our day at Disney, my wife started feeling bad.  Just having some vomiting, h/a, muscle aches, fever chills, post nasal drainage.  

 

I call this AM because she is in no condition to board, esp. with fever and chills, cough, etc.   They tell me she is good too board as covid is negative...  I ask what my options are.  They then tell me I can either board or lose all the money as their most recent policies require a positive covid test to get an FCC.

 

What I find disappointing about this aspect of the story is what was RCI thinking? They used to ask on the questionnaire whether one had a runny nose, a cough, diarrhea. I always wondered what they would do if I ever answered yes to any of those.

 

But with your wife's symptoms (vomiting, fever, headache, muscle aches, chills, runny nose), what are the odds of things getting worse rather than getting better, especially with her preconditions? What are the odds of her illness progressing beyond the point of the medical center's ability to properly address it? What are the odds of having to divert the ship to handle an extreme emergency situation knowing her condition at the terminal versus canceling your cruise and refunding the cost of two fares?

[Arzeena]

OP,

I just wanted to post that I am so sorry to read everything you and your wife have been through. I just wish you the best and a very very speedy recovery to your wife.
🙏

[rimmit]

29 minutes ago, JupiterTwo said:

 

What I find disappointing about this aspect of the story is what was RCI thinking? They used to ask on the questionnaire whether one had a runny nose, a cough, diarrhea. I always wondered what they would do if I ever answered yes to any of those.

 

But with your wife's symptoms (vomiting, fever, headache, muscle aches, chills, runny nose), what are the odds of things getting worse rather than getting better, especially with her preconditions? What are the odds of her illness progressing beyond the point of the medical center's ability to properly address it? What are the odds of having to divert the ship to handle an extreme emergency situation knowing her condition at the terminal versus canceling your cruise and refunding the cost of two fares?

*edit* Sorry thought you were stating that we should have gone on the cruise given the odds were low something bad would happen.

 

I’m sure they have bean counters that know that exact answer.  Lol.

Edited October 8, 2022 by rimmit

[JupiterTwo]

1 hour ago, rimmit said:

*edit* Sorry thought you were stating that we should have gone on the cruise given the odds were low something bad would happen.

 

I’m sure they have bean counters that know that exact answer.  Lol.

No, I was questioning why RCL would choose to make you board at the risk of more harm to the overall cruise instead of just refunding your fares given how severe the symptoms already were.

[Big_G]

12 hours ago, rimmit said:

The title really didn’t indicate blame I felt, but if it did, again I apologize for the misleading title. Thanks for the well wishes.  She’ll get there.  She’s a fighter and very determined to walk again.

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Wishing your wife a speedy recovery.

[clskinsfan]

Sorry to hear about your wife. I wonder what would have happened if you showed up to the port and answered yes on the medical questions. I dont think they can legally board you if you answer the health questions as being sick can they?

[clskinsfan]

3 hours ago, rimmit said:

I’m already over it at this point.   After having 4 vacations this year interrupted, it’s become the new norm sadly.   This one stung particularly bad due to some personal reasons that brought us to FL to begin with.  Time to plan the next vacation that will almost assuredly get interrupted as well.  Each vacation has gotten shorter in time from beginning to interruption.  We got 10 days into the Galapagos, 3 days in Peru, 1.5 days in Zimbabwe and 0.5 days this time.   We’re not leaving the house before the next one gets interrupted.  Lol.

You might want to start out with a long weekend a state or two away from home for the next one. At least you can drive home if something bad happens. 

[brillohead]

During The Before Times, if you were sick on embarkation day, you could be denied boarding, WITH NO FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS MADE -- the onus was on the customer to insure their trip against any and all risks, or to accept the consequences of not having insurance coverage.  Plenty of people would get norovirus or influenza or any number of other contagious (or not) illnesses right before boarding and not be able to take the cruise. It wasn't Royal's duty to refund them their money then, and it shouldn't be now.

Why, in the post-COVID era, do people all of a sudden think that Royal should just lose money because someone got sick? 

Why do people think that getting sick with COVID should mean a full refund, but getting sick with influenza or norovirus or appendicitis or anything else shouldn't be grounds for a refund?  It's your responsibility to either obtain appropriate insurance, or assume the risk yourself.  Personal responsibility, people!



Side note:  the "health questions" these days consist of:
1. Are you vaccinated against COVID?
2. Have you received a COVID booster?
3. Are you / will you be more than XX weeks pregnant at any time during the cruise?  (Sorry, I can't remember the exact number of weeks right now.)

No questions about vomiting, diarrhea, fever, cough, exposure to people with COVID, etc.  It's like norovirus isn't even on their radar anymore in this post-COVID era.

[Illbcruzn4life]

On 10/7/2022 at 6:01 PM, Jerseygirl1416 said:

Just for the future the new health screening is done on the app up to 24hrs before embarkation. 

I am on the Allure right now, getting off in a few hours and i can assure you there were no health screening questions either in the app or at the port.