1/8/23 Aboard Apex Oceanview Cafe report

[mpdog42]

21 hours ago, Cjonthesea said:

Here's what I saw in the Apex Oceanview Cafe casual dining venue on Sunday night 1/8/23 off Key West:

 

Main station: Italian tonight (themes will change): Chicken and Eggplant dishes (one was Parm--I forget which), Tilapia, Beef Lasagna, Mac n Cheese, Ratatouille, Mixed grilled veggies, Spaghetti, maybe one or two more.

 

Salad: three green leaf bases, about 10-12 toppings, three 'other' salads, various dressings

 

Dessert: 8 or 9 items like Red Velvet Cake, Carrot Cake, Chocolatey stuff, etc.  And a person making Banana Splits for you. 

This is separate from the Ice Cream Station which had about 6 ice creams and frozen yogurts, plus a couple gelatos (still extra fee for those). Three toppings.

 

Bread Station: Many rolls, breadsticks, salami, cheeses (Cheddar, Provolone, Pepper Jack and another), plus dried apple, figs, raisins and some other stuff. 

Freshly made Pizza by the slice--four types including Margherita and Alfredo

 

The food was tasty and well-prepared, except for some chicken that had been sitting in the pan for a while.

 

No Carving station. No Stir Fry tonight. No International.

Obviously, fewer choices from what I remember on Equinox and Millenium last year, but you won't go hungry.  There was a modest stream of diners between 7-8pm.

 

Breakfast (today) and Lunch (departure day yesterday) are still comprehensive--I did not notice any reductions.

 

I spoke to the Executive Chef and other management personnel, and they emphasized they welcome feedback from passengers and will make changes along the way. I pointed out that some are angry that the changes were not communicated in advance. Of course it's a cost cutting measure: many food prices have tripled. And there has been a tremendous amount of wasted food.

It is a line-wide effort and they will be comparing notes. Apex (and other Edge class ships) has no Main Dining Room and this does free up staff for the restaurants. 

 

No pics, as the internet drops out now and then...but that's another topic.

 

Bon appetit!

cj

No Indian?

[LMaxwell]

12 minutes ago, 81Zoomie said:

We sailed the Apex in Dec.  It was our 3rd celebrity cruise this year covering the M, S, and E classes.  It appeared to me that there was less food in the Oceanview on the Apex.  Presentation also varied quite a bit.  My opinion was there were some larger serving dishes to cover up for fewer options.  I never saw a grilled meat station.  The bread and cheese stations moved around a bit as well.  I took some pics so you can draw your own conclusions.

 

 

Why post pictures from December; the change occurred to sailings departing after 1/1/23. I am thinking people will see your photos and believe they reflect what the current onboard offering is. I saw your photos first then saw you mention they were from 2022. 

[81Zoomie]

@LMaxwell, I did not see any info with a specific date.  What I experienced on the Apex in Dec 2022 in the OV, IMHO, was less in terms of variety, presentation, and quantity than earlier in the year.  Perhaps this policy was slowly rolled out like a soft opening?

[LMaxwell]

6 minutes ago, 81Zoomie said:

@LMaxwell, I did not see any info with a specific date.  What I experienced on the Apex in Dec 2022 in the OV, IMHO, was less in terms of variety, presentation, and quantity than earlier in the year.  Perhaps this policy was slowly rolled out like a soft opening?

That is possible, but cruise lines don't tend to scale back in holiday season between Thanksgiving and New Years. I see several items that the executive office rep confirmed are no longer served.  a lot can change in a few days 

[Cap_D]

A grilled-to-order station for proteins (and vegetarian options) offers options without waste.  It would not cost Celebrity anything to have its (limited) Mast Grill line-up plus a few other items available (e.g., a salmon and chicken breast) for a grill station at dinner in OVC.  (The risk is the end product may outshine the MDR entrees like a pre-cooked cruise line filet (with brown sauce to keep it moist) or sliced beef wellington, prime rib, etc. that has been sitting under a warming lamp since 4 pm.) 

 

Celebrity should no longer be considered a premium cruise line if it is relying on cold cuts, bread and cheese that have no relation to the display items, casserole pasta dishes and frozen dessert trays (bread pudding picture above) that appear they came from Stouffer's or Gordon Food Service.  The line-up is like a bad college cafeteria during a snowstorm on a Sunday. 

 

It's close or already the case that many U.S. higher end-grocery stores, some airline lounges, SweetGreen's, Panera, and Olive Garden's have the same or better and fresher options.  Pre-made large format baked zitis and such are not even sub-premium no matter how shiny the serving tray or friendly staff.

 

Re Mast Grill and gluten free comments above, consider if the buns are toasted on the griddle or in a separate machine.  On Edge I recall a separate machine and having to specially request a non-toasted bun, but perhaps it's the bun or its toasting that creates a gluten contamination risk.

[Bo1953]

On 1/9/2023 at 6:06 AM, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

They have 4 main dining rooms.

Thank you, the comment apparently made by someone not really familiar with The Edge Class, at least the dining venues...

 

I can wait to read about their take on the cabins... LOL

 

bon appetit and bon voyage

[terrydtx]

17 hours ago, kathynorth said:

A bit off topic, on a recent cruise we found Celebrity to be very responsive to my grandson's special dietary needs. We notified special needs to give the ship the heads up. I filled out the online form and received a follow up email asking us to provide a list of foods my grandson could eat, which included drink supplements, along with any special instructions. We were told to identify ourselves to the MDR Maitre'd prior to his first meal on embarkation day, which we did. Without our asking, a box of food was delivered to our cabin that included a sampling of every item we had asked for, just in case he needed to snack between meals. Our waiter had my grandson's preferred food ready to serve at each dinner and the Maitre'd checked in with us at the end of each meal. On our last cruise there was a couple seated near us who clearly had special dietary needs, as we couldn't help but see them being served dinner items that were not on the menu. They were also very satisfied with Celebrity's response to their requests.  

This is good to know, we sail on the Equinox in June with our granddaughter in a Sky Suite and she is extremely lactose intolerant. We hope since we will dine in Luminae that they will be better equipped to handle her issues with Lactose. She is 12 years old, and it took special testing by the Mayo Clinic to diagnose the severity of her lactose intolerance. The great people at Mayo told us hers was one of the worst cases that had seen in years. She is extremely good about letting people know when eating out about her issues.

[terrydtx]

8 hours ago, Cap_D said:

Celebrity should no longer be considered a premium cruise line

When, if ever, was Celebrity considered a "Premium" line? They may be one of the better mainstream cruise lines, but not ever an overall Premium one. If you sail only in suites with Celebrity, you do get a more premium experience, but for everybody else not in a suite it is not a premium line. We prefer and love Celebrity over any other mainstream cruise line and only book suites, but we are now going to venture outside of Celebrity by booking cruises with Oceania and Viking to get a real premium experience ship wide.

[Cruzinforpeace***]

I don’t know how they can manage to NOT cut back AND raise prices.  The cost of EVERYTHING  has risen tremendously. Just saw our recent home gas bill; it’s literally doubled.  This is the “new normal” that has been talked about.  Enjoy the last remnants of what “cruising used to be”.  It’s about to get a whole lot worse I fear.

[natshala]

18 hours ago, vkb2751 said:

Beyond has 2,800 passengers this week

How does one get these numbers? I’m on a B2B Apex 2/11 and I’m curious.

[RichYak]

1 minute ago, natshala said:

How does one get these numbers? I’m on a B2B Apex 2/11 and I’m curious.

Ask an officer on board.

[natshala]

2 minutes ago, RichYak said:

Ask an officer on board.

Thank you. I guess I thought that info was proprietary.

[johhnnyt]

20 hours ago, jelayne said:

It could also be that the OV options change based on how full the ship is.  A ship sailing at 40-50%  occupancy may offer fewer options in the OV compared to a ship sailing at 85- 95% capacity.  

I had kind of the same thought. The ships still aren't at full capacity as they were pre pandemic, I wonder if the scaling back at Ocean view is based on that. I know when we were on apex last month, it was a ghost town up but at the buffet so we all ro in the evening

[Nunagoras]

2 hours ago, terrydtx said:

When, if ever, was Celebrity considered a "Premium" line? They may be one of the better mainstream cruise lines, but not ever an overall Premium one. If you sail only in suites with Celebrity, you do get a more premium experience, but for everybody else not in a suite it is not a premium line. We prefer and love Celebrity over any other mainstream cruise line and only book suites, but we are now going to venture outside of Celebrity by booking cruises with Oceania and Viking to get a real premium experience ship wide.

Forgive me the off-topic, but this is the way I see the market segmentation as a market analyst I used to be with the corresponding RCI group's companies to each level:

 

Mainstream - RCI

Premium - X

Mid-Luxury - Formerly Azamara, currently nothing.

Full Luxury - Silversea

 

That said: Yes; X can to be considered a Premium line: 4*+ EU land hotel service standards, above the 4* EU RCI land hotel service level and far below the Silversea's 5*+ service levels.

 

This is from where most here may to grab the "Premium" category for X.

 

Regarding the cutbacks and price rises? Ships are understaffed right now and some of them below full capacity as well. Sadly me thinks that things will to modify tremendously by the next 2 years to come, let us to see how. For now; enjoy the remnants of the old time cruising experience and adapt to the new one in the making...

[mnocket]

2 hours ago, Nunagoras said:

Forgive me the off-topic, but this is the way I see the market segmentation as a market analyst I used to be with the corresponding RCI group's companies to each level:

 

Mainstream - RCI

Premium - X

Mid-Luxury - Formerly Azamara, currently nothing.

Full Luxury - Silversea

 

That said: Yes; X can to be considered a Premium line: 4*+ EU land hotel service standards, above the 4* EU RCI land hotel service level and far below the Silversea's 5*+ service levels.

 

This is from where most here may to grab the "Premium" category for X.

 

Regarding the cutbacks and price rises? Ships are understaffed right now and some of them below full capacity as well. Sadly me thinks that things will to modify tremendously by the next 2 years to come, let us to see how. For now; enjoy the remnants of the old time cruising experience and adapt to the new one in the making...

I don't think is a definitive classification scale.  Yours is as good as anything and like all others will evoke arguments over specific placements.  That said, I think the gap between X and RCI is continuing to narrow - and at an accelerating pace.  Soon the Mainstream and Premium classifications may become a distinction without a difference.

Edited January 10, 2023 by mnocket

[AstoriaPreppy]

23 minutes ago, mnocket said:

I don't think is a definitive classification scale.  Yours is as good as anything and like all others will evoke arguments over specific placements.  That said, I think the gap between X and RCI is continuing to narrow - and at an accelerating pace.  Soon the Mainstream and Premium classifications may become a distinction without a difference.

 

Cruise line categories are *very* well-defined in the industry, not some sort of willy-nilly vibes thing:

 

• Mass Market: Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Norwegian (making a play for premium with their new ships), Disney (priced as a premium product)

 

• Premium: Celebrity, Holland America, Princess

[prmssk]

5 hours ago, terrydtx said:

This is good to know, we sail on the Equinox in June with our granddaughter in a Sky Suite and she is extremely lactose intolerant. We hope since we will dine in Luminae that they will be better equipped to handle her issues with Lactose. She is 12 years old, and it took special testing by the Mayo Clinic to diagnose the severity of her lactose intolerance. The great people at Mayo told us hers was one of the worst cases that had seen in years. She is extremely good about letting people know when eating out about her issues.

I am allergic to dairy and Celebrity has always done an amazing job taking care of me.  In Luminae so much can be modified on the spot that I didn't even have to always pre-order the night before (like I always do in the MDR).

[ABoatNerd]

4 minutes ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

 

Cruise line categories are *very* well-defined in the industry, not some sort of willy-nilly vibes thing:

 

• Mass Market: Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Norwegian (making a play for premium with their new ships), Disney (priced as a premium product)

 

• Premium: Celebrity, Holland America, Princess

Disagree:

Three elements separate mass market from premium and above:

1) No class apartheid like on Celebrity, guests basically go everywhere other a small lounge for a few categories

2) Small ships

3) Non mass itineraries; unique non mass ports and longer itineraries

Mass Market - All, including Celebrity, Celebrity is a big mass cruise line owned by RCL, nothing more, and heading to the bottom quickly

Premium - Oceania, Azamara, Viking Ocean

Deluxe - Silversea, Seabourne, Regent

Speciality - Ponet, 

That is the reality. The smaller the vessel, the higher end it is, bottom line.

[Cap_D]

OVC is an illusion, and however you want to classify Celebrity doesn't matter.  The point is the food in OVC for dinner is trending towards or already relying on what appears to be reheated frozen casseroles and dessert trays, compressesed luncheon deli meat with an over reliance on salamis (that any American can buy at a Kroger from Dietz and Watson or Boars Head, if Celebrity is even buying that grade of product), and overcooked vegetables (maybe from a can) with a backdrop of plastic foods and garnishes to make it appear better than it is.  

 

The actual food is really starting to look like what's at rando American truck stops, hospital cafeterias from the 90s, or the Las Vegas Circus Circus buffet (absent carving stations), etc.  Nothing gourmet, higher quality, and much not appearing to be prepared for the OVC.  It doesn't even compare to the food hall on NCL or the quick serve options on Disney or Carnival (Carnival buffets may be about the same, but seem to have protein options from the video available of recent cruises). Celebrity could easily add options from existing preprepared food used in it's MDR, or simply have some options that are prepared to order.  

 

Bottom line: The bread pudding and lasagna may be comfort food, but it's inconsistent with a vacation that is in the thousands of dollars.  It's also probably not reflective of how the vast majority of the target market regularly eats even if they eat from grocery store hot and cold bars (e.g., most US grocery stores have available fresh from frozen bread, rotisserie chicken, a salad bar, hot bar, 6 plus pizza options, deli, sushi, and some will have a wine bar and grill (e.g., some Whole Foods)), and modern cafterias have prepared to order options.  

Edited January 10, 2023 by Cap_D

[terrydtx]

16 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

Disagree:

Three elements separate mass market from premium and above:

1) No class apartheid like on Celebrity, guests basically go everywhere other a small lounge for a few categories

2) Small ships

3) Non mass itineraries; unique non mass ports and longer itineraries

Mass Market - All, including Celebrity, Celebrity is a big mass cruise line owned by RCL, nothing more, and heading to the bottom quickly

Premium - Oceania, Azamara, Viking Ocean

Deluxe - Silversea, Seabourne, Regent

Speciality - Ponet, 

That is the reality. The smaller the vessel, the higher end it is, bottom line.

I agree with your assumptions.

[ABoatNerd]

39 minutes ago, Cap_D said:

OVC is an illusion, and however you want to classify Celebrity doesn't matter.  The point is the food in OVC for dinner is trending towards or already relying on what appears to be reheated frozen casseroles and dessert trays, compressesed luncheon deli meat with an over reliance on salamis (that any American can buy at a Kroger from Dietz and Watson or Boars Head, if Celebrity is even buying that grade of product), and overcooked vegetables (maybe from a can) with a backdrop of plastic foods and garnishes to make it appear better than it is.  

 

The actual food is really starting to look like what's at rando American truck stops, hospital cafeterias from the 90s, or the Las Vegas Circus Circus buffet (absent carving stations), etc.  Nothing gourmet, higher quality, and much not appearing to be prepared for the OVC.  It doesn't even compare to the food hall on NCL or the quick serve options on Disney or Carnival (Carnival buffets may be about the same, but seem to have protein options from the video available of recent cruises). Celebrity could easily add options from existing preprepared food used in it's MDR, or simply have some options that are prepared to order.  

 

Bottom line: The bread pudding and lasagna may be comfort food, but it's inconsistent with a vacation that is in the thousands of dollars.  It's also probably not reflective of how the vast majority of the target market regularly eats even if they eat from grocery store hot and cold bars (e.g., most US grocery stores have available fresh from frozen bread, rotisserie chicken, a salad bar, hot bar, 6 plus pizza options, deli, sushi, and some will have a wine bar and grill (e.g., some Whole Foods)), and modern cafterias have prepared to order options.  

Outstanding analysis, you have summarized the situation very well and I compliment you on the compare and contrast of land versus at sea. 

The RCL downgrading is continuing quickly and with technology the downgrades will not be hidden from the public.

What I see is a corporate belief that cruise vacationers are SO DESPERATE to cruise that they will put up with serious downgrading. Time will tell on this.

I have cruised since 1989, starting on the Sovereign of the Seas, and I have no cruises booked on any line and will not book for the foreseeable future until I know there is stability in the product offering. I am no "obedient consumer". 

[cgolf1]

Wrong Thread

Edited January 10, 2023 by cgolf1

[AstoriaPreppy]

54 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

Disagree:

Three elements separate mass market from premium and above:

1) No class apartheid like on Celebrity, guests basically go everywhere other a small lounge for a few categories

2) Small ships

3) Non mass itineraries; unique non mass ports and longer itineraries

Mass Market - All, including Celebrity, Celebrity is a big mass cruise line owned by RCL, nothing more, and heading to the bottom quickly

Premium - Oceania, Azamara, Viking Ocean

Deluxe - Silversea, Seabourne, Regent

Speciality - Ponet, 

That is the reality. The smaller the vessel, the higher end it is, bottom line.

 

37 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I agree with your assumptions.

 

I think you're getting confused with your personal feelings, v. how the industry is segmented and marketed. If you call a random TA and ask for a premium cruise line, they are going to know it's Celebrity, Holland America, or Princess... not whatever your hot take is. (please, feel free to google this)

 

In the industry, luxury cruise lines are specifically Viking Ocean, Seabourn, Regent Seven Seas, Azamara, Silversea and Oceania. 

[RichYak]

1 hour ago, ABoatNerd said:

Mass Market - All, including Celebrity, Celebrity is a big mass cruise line owned by RCL, nothing more, and heading to the bottom quickly

Premium - Oceania, Azamara, Viking Ocean

Deluxe - Silversea, Seabourne, Regent

Speciality - Ponet, 

That is the reality. The smaller the vessel, the higher end it is, bottom line.

I would also agree with this list.

 

9 minutes ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

I think you're getting confused with your personal feelings, v. how the industry is segmented and marketed...

And I think you're confusing marketing with reality.  Lines like Oceania and Azamara are premium, not Celebrity, Princess, and Holland, which are mass market. Celebrity doesn't even market themselves as premium, they are in complete fantasy-land using the word "luxury".

[ABoatNerd]

47 minutes ago, RichYak said:

I would also agree with this list.

 

And I think you're confusing marketing with reality.  Lines like Oceania and Azamara are premium, not Celebrity, Princess, and Holland, which are mass market. Celebrity doesn't even market themselves as premium, they are in complete fantasy-land using the word "luxury".

RichYak, 100% correct. Your knowledge is evident. Interesting history about Celebrity. When Celebrity first started in early 1990's, I was on the inaugural of the Zenith. At that time Celebrity's product was not mass line, it was the only premium cruise line, a step above the mass lines, rather the Oceania of the day. The product was vastly superior to the RCL, HA of the day. Celebrity served afternoon tea in the forward lounge almost identical to Oceania's current afternoon tea service with wood trollies etc. There was no Oceania, Azamara etc at that time, there was a big jump up to the luxury lines, Cunard rather straddled the divide.

Over the decades Celebrity abandoned this level of all inclusive quality and went downwards into the mass market courtesy of RCL. Celebrity went big ship, mass amenities, started into the class apartheid, nickle and dime, art auctions and onwards. In the interim Renaissance went under and Oceania started up and picked up the small R ships a while later RCL built the premium Azamara with R ships. All the while the premium lines were building, Celebrity was getting bigger and more mass, despite using the bull s line of "modern luxury", not. 

It was only in the 1990's where Celebrity would be considered premium, since that time, just another mass line, albeit, the highest level of the mass lines, and becoming more mass - reheated frozen casseroles every day.