Mandatory Gratuities?

[CruiserBruce]

16 minutes ago, Marelaine said:

This leads to another question. Are the cabin stewards notified of which guests have removed auto-grats? They must since they are required to pool tips from those guests.

 

Look at Post #18...all explained there.

[greensprout]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

Bar staff are on a different contract, and are not part of the $16/17.50 per day system. The 18% on a drink is divided between the bar tenders, the waiters and a some amount for a employee welfare fund. 

Noted, perhaps I had info just for bar servers/tenders.

 

[Giggleypuff]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

Yes, they certainly are and know who has stiffed them.  

 

They all get the lists as I said a few posts above - sorry if I wasn’t clear enough.

 

To be clear - the crew are totally aware of who has removed the crew incentive.  

Do they know if someone pre-pays the gratuity?

[kazu]

7 hours ago, Giggleypuff said:

Do they know if someone pre-pays the gratuity?

 

They only know who doesn’t pay.  How you pay for the crew incentive / gratuity is of no concern to them as long as it is paid 😉 

[wesport]

It’s always make me sad when someone asks this question. 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, wesport said:

It’s always make me sad when someone asks this question. 

And they almost always say they are going to tio separately, and often claim more generously. Though every now and then one honestly says they totally do not believe in tips and won't leave anything.

[Mike07]

12 hours ago, kazu said:

 

Yes, they certainly are and know who has stiffed them.  

 

They all get the lists as I said a few posts above - sorry if I wasn’t clear enough.

 

To be clear - the crew are totally aware of who has removed the crew incentive.  

 

 

I've done the standard CC attitude of paying the rated gratuity price for my stateroom, and then a little extra for bar and wait staff that go above and beyond making the cruise more special.

 

That being said, the crew is in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" spot. If they're jerks to the people that remove the gratuities (b/c they have inside information on that), than said passengers will feel justified at a poorer attitude shown by the customer facing staff. On the other hand, if the staff treats everybody equally great, then it kind of makes the gratuity less special and encourages people to cancel said gratuity b/c they're treated just as everyone else is treated.

 

IDK... I kind of wish the gratuities were built into the fares, but it seems like many lines still want to itemize out said gratuities.

[Mike07]

Also, on my last Princess cruise, I overheard somebody on one of the public wall phones in the Lido deck calling to their stateroom about getting the gratuities removed b/c it was adding daily fees to their trip. 😞

[Giggleypuff]

4 hours ago, kazu said:

 

They only know who doesn’t pay.  How you pay for the crew incentive / gratuity is of no concern to them as long as it is paid 😉 

Darn. I was hoping they’d know it was prepaid and treat me extra nice 🤣

[shakuyi]

Everytime I think about this topic I think its important for everyone to re-educate themselves on the history of tipping and how we as humanity came to this point. There was a point in time where all employees were paid fairly. It was not until groups of people felt the need to pay more for services which led to the tipping culture we have today. If nobody tipped back in the day we would not have this current culture today. So while I applaud those who feel the need to tip above the pre-paid gratuities keep in mind the more you tip the more likely gratuities are going to go up for the rest of the us. Tipping started and became mandatory only because others felt the need to tip when it was purely not necessary. Now we all see that "extra tip line" on any receipt we get. So the more we all tip and feel the need to tip more than necessary the more likely we are to get increases in mandatory tipping because we are conveying the message that we can afford to tip more instead of the employer paying more fairly.

 

I am not saying not to tip but I am saying be cautious not to over tip and set the precedent that the bar should be raised. Employers should not feel the need to pay their employees less just because their customers feel the need to tip more. Thats never going to be how fix this issue so everyone gets back to fair pay.

[Laminator]

19 minutes ago, shakuyi said:

Everytime I think about this topic I think its important for everyone to re-educate themselves on the history of tipping and how we as humanity came to this point. There was a point in time where all employees were paid fairly. It was not until groups of people felt the need to pay more for services which led to the tipping culture we have today. If nobody tipped back in the day we would not have this current culture today. So while I applaud those who feel the need to tip above the pre-paid gratuities keep in mind the more you tip the more likely gratuities are going to go up for the rest of the us. Tipping started and became mandatory only because others felt the need to tip when it was purely not necessary. Now we all see that "extra tip line" on any receipt we get. So the more we all tip and feel the need to tip more than necessary the more likely we are to get increases in mandatory tipping because we are conveying the message that we can afford to tip more instead of the employer paying more fairly.

 

I am not saying not to tip but I am saying be cautious not to over tip and set the precedent that the bar should be raised. Employers should not feel the need to pay their employees less just because their customers feel the need to tip more. Thats never going to be how fix this issue so everyone gets back to fair pay.

I had a taste for pancakes the other day so I went to the local IHOP. Picked a bad time as there was a party of 23. Two tables. One of 12 and one of 11. Ran those girls ragged with refills, to go containers and everything else you can imagine. $500 check and left a $5 tip. Those 2 girls were in tears. This issue gets fixed when people do not remove the tips or tip the proper amount. I don't care if that amount is 10% or 15% or whatever. 1% will not cut it. I have stood in line at guest services waiting for my friend to cash in some Euros so he could play in the casino. We heard pax basically bragging how they are saving themselves $400 by removing the tips and being quite happy about it thinking everyone else was stupid for not removing the tips. And I can pretty much assure you that they are the most demanding of the pax onboard. If you can afford to leave a little extra please do. If you can't afford to leave extra that is fine. But if you choose to leave nothing then stay home. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Laminator

[rafinmd]

2 hours ago, Giggleypuff said:

Darn. I was hoping they’d know it was prepaid and treat me extra nice 🤣

Or that the tip was already in the bag and no need to do any extra.

 

Roy

[firsttimer1971]

12 minutes ago, shakuyi said:

Employers should not feel the need to pay their employees less just because their customers feel the need to tip more.

 

Isn't it the other way around? Customers feeling obliged to tip because they know that employers pay less to their employees resulting in the employees depending on tips to have a decent wage? Nothing is stopping employers from paying their employees a decent wage, regardless of the tips they receive. The only reason to pay them less is greed on the part of the employers. 

 

Coming from a country where employees in the service industry are paid a decent wage and tipping is not the norm (or just a small amount), I have been reading all the threads and discussions about tipping in the USA with increasing amazement. There seems to be a huge division between the USA and the rest of the world in that respect. I saw videos about customers at drive-throughs and in a self-service kiosk in the US being asked to tip. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand how it works on a cruise and will not be removing the daily gratuity . I'll even be tipping some extra for excellent service, but I'd much rather just pay more for my cruise and not have to deal with tipping at all. 

[HamOp]

Serious question.  What would happen if everyone removed the automatic daily tips?

 

[AFNavigator]

4 hours ago, Mike07 said:

IDK... I kind of wish the gratuities were built into the fares, but it seems like many lines still want to itemize out said gratuities.

This is pretty much the norm across the entire travel industry, not just cruise lines.  Airlines now make billions from baggage, seat, and other fees that used to be included in the base fare.  Hotels charge "resort fees" for items that used to be included in their base fares.  It all comes down to the draw of being able to offer a seemingly crazy low cruise or hotel fare which they then bring back up to the real fare by adding fees.

 

In the case of the mandatory cruise crew appreciation fees, it's really a shame that the cruise lines offer low fares by under-paying the ship staff, then adding cost back on via mandatory tips to add up to the true cruise fare.

Edited April 25, 2023 by AFNavigator
Spelling

[Mary229]

52 minutes ago, HamOp said:

Serious question.  What would happen if everyone removed the automatic daily tips?

 

Prices would go up.  Currently it is a very small minority that remove tips.  I researched this a few weeks ago and if pressed I will look it up again but as I recall it was less than 5% 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, Laminator said:

I had a taste for pancakes the other day so I went to the local IHOP. Picked a bad time as there was a party of 23. Two tables. One of 12 and one of 11. Ran those girls ragged with refills, to go containers and everything else you can imagine. $500 check and left a $5 tip. Those 2 girls were in tears. This issue gets fixed when people do not remove the tips or tip the proper amount. I don't care if that amount is 10% or 15% or whatever. 1% will not cut it. I have stood in line at guest services waiting for my friend to cash in some Euros so he could play in the casino. We heard pax basically bragging how they are saving themselves $400 by removing the tips and being quite happy about it thinking everyone else was stupid for not removing the tips. And I can pretty much assure you that they are the most demanding of the pax onboard. If you can afford to leave a little extra please do. If you can't afford to leave extra that is fine. But if you choose to leave nothing then stay home. 

 

And they have really made it easier to leave the tip as it is just added or prepaid as opposed to you have to have the bills to fill the envelopes. It is really just more convenient the way they are doing it now.

[Colorado Klutch]

2 hours ago, shakuyi said:

Everytime I think about this topic I think its important for everyone to re-educate themselves on the history of tipping and how we as humanity came to this point. There was a point in time where all employees were paid fairly. It was not until groups of people felt the need to pay more for services which led to the tipping culture we have today. If nobody tipped back in the day we would not have this current culture today. So while I applaud those who feel the need to tip above the pre-paid gratuities keep in mind the more you tip the more likely gratuities are going to go up for the rest of the us. Tipping started and became mandatory only because others felt the need to tip when it was purely not necessary. Now we all see that "extra tip line" on any receipt we get. So the more we all tip and feel the need to tip more than necessary the more likely we are to get increases in mandatory tipping because we are conveying the message that we can afford to tip more instead of the employer paying more fairly.

 

I am not saying not to tip but I am saying be cautious not to over tip and set the precedent that the bar should be raised. Employers should not feel the need to pay their employees less just because their customers feel the need to tip more. Thats never going to be how fix this issue so everyone gets back to fair pay.

 

Patently absurd. Tipping goes back to ancient Rome. If I'm a good tipper there is just no way it's going to increase how much you have to tip. It just doesn't work that way. There are just so many factors, but that's not one of them. Although I do agree employers should simply pay fair wages. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Colorado Klutch

[kazu]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

Prices would go up.  Currently it is a very small minority that remove tips.  I researched this a few weeks ago and if pressed I will look it up again but as I recall it was less than 5% 

 

Absolutely correct.  They would go up as crew would be subject to a different tax.  They get more the way it is being done.

 

I am really shocked at the less than 5% number (and no I’m not doubting you) - it’s just that on  some shorter cruises (usually part of a longer cruise) I have been on had people lined up at guest services and they were there for one purpose and one purpose only.   Not the case on my longer cruises.

[Mary229]

38 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Absolutely correct.  They would go up as crew would be subject to a different tax.  They get more the way it is being done.

 

I am really shocked at the less than 5% number (and no I’m not doubting you) - it’s just that on  some shorter cruises (usually part of a longer cruise) I have been on had people lined up at guest services and they were there for one purpose and one purpose only.   Not the case on my longer cruises.

I was searching earlier for the article, if I find it again I will post it 

[kazu]

5 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I was searching earlier for the article, if I find it again I will post it 

 

I wasn’t doubting you nor do I want you to do unnecessary work.  I was just speaking on my experience on certain cruises.  I suspect (or hope) they are the minority.

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

I wasn’t doubting you nor do I want you to do unnecessary work.  I was just speaking on my experience on certain cruises.  I suspect (or hope) they are the minority.

When I read the given number I thought they are just saying that to make the removers feel marginalized. It was a really low percentage, should have posted it at reading 

[RuthC]

7 hours ago, Mike07 said:

I kind of wish the gratuities were built into the fares, but it seems like many lines still want to itemize out said gratuities.

If the cruise lines were to do that, though, the fares would have to go up by an amount more than what is currently being charged in order for the crew to receive the same amount. Were the fare increase the same amount, the crew would take a decrease in income. 
The crew doesn't have to pay taxes on gratuities, but they do on earned income. 

The crew appreciation amount is an after tax income to them. 

[lyndarra]

5 minutes ago, RuthC said:

If the cruise lines were to do that, though, the fares would have to go up by an amount more than what is currently being charged in order for the crew to receive the same amount. Were the fare increase the same amount, the crew would take a decrease in income. 
The crew doesn't have to pay taxes on gratuities, but they do on earned income. 

The crew appreciation amount is an after tax income to them. 

Is that correct? Wouldn't it depend on the income tax rules for whatever country in which their their income is assessed. It seems tips in USA are taxable if I read the following correctly.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tip-recordkeeping-and-reporting

 

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, lyndarra said:

Is that correct? Wouldn't it depend on the income tax rules for whatever country in which their their income is assessed. It seems tips in USA are taxable if I read the following correctly.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tip-recordkeeping-and-reporting

 

Foreign workers operate under a complex set of tax rules.  https://www.shiplifetv.com/blog/taxforcruisecrew