Mandatory Gratuities?

[Langoustine]

13 hours ago, lissie said:

 I will always call out Americans who throw cash around tipping in other countries were its totally inappropriate

Below you will see how many Europeans think about Americans tipping in Europe:

[CGinMTL]

Tipping in Canada and USA has become ridiculous. 

There was a story this week about a woman asked to tip at a retail store after buying dog food 

I admit, I am getting tipping fatigue and I think that the people that actually earn a ( tipping wage) will end up being penalized because of it 

We need to do like UK and Australia . Have a decent wage and no tipping 

 

There was another article with a waiter and a bartender . Both still agreed that the 15 % tip was still acceptable 

And let's remember that the meal that used to cost 10/15 is now btw 15/20

Therefore even with the same %.

You have still increased the $$

[sailawayward]

On 4/24/2023 at 7:34 PM, Minnitub said:

Thank you for all your responses. We are not cruising with HAL but know people who are, and they misunderstood that  $16 was actually per person. They thought it was $60 a day for the both of them.

 

We are long term cruisers and believe all staff deserve to be tipped. Especially our cabin cleaners. Glad to know that they can keep the extra

Tips. 

asking for a friend.  uh huh.

[mcrcruiser]

what compensation  does HAL pay the crew in addition to the $16  per pax  tip per day ?

Edited May 17, 2023 by mcrcruiser

[VMax1700]

11 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

what compensation  does HAL pay the crew in addition to the $16  per pax  tip per day ?

They pay them their basic salary, which is their private business. 

Much as I do not expect my salary or the salary of my staff to be discussed with any degree of reliability on a public forum, I do not expect the salaries of the ship's staff to be likewise discussed.

[BetsyS.]

VMax1700 - I agree with you.

[firsttimer1971]

1 hour ago, VMax1700 said:

They pay them their basic salary, which is their private business. 

Much as I do not expect my salary or the salary of my staff to be discussed with any degree of reliability on a public forum, I do not expect the salaries of the ship's staff to be likewise discussed.

 

Completely agree but without knowing any details about their basic salary we do know that the Hotel Service Charge (or Gratuity/Crew Appreciation) is important for the crew as it says so on the HAL website:

 

"The Hotel Service Charge is paid entirely to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their compensation" 

[mcrcruiser]

1 hour ago, VMax1700 said:

They pay them their basic salary, which is their private business. 

Much as I do not expect my salary or the salary of my staff to be discussed with any degree of reliability on a public forum, I do not expect the salaries of the ship's staff to be likewise discussed.

We understand  your feelings ;however ,the staff gratuities are rising all the time , in fact even higher  increase  percentages than the avg worker in the USA  .Thus ,we should know why the cruise lines keeps raising the tips  .Are they in fact paying any base pay at all  ? Are they providing just room & board ?  since the tips are the majority of  the crews income ,what is the other part ? 

 Personally ,I like the answer to that question because HAL is   understaffing their ships ,so why are they doing that ? .It impact my enjoyment as well as many others as evidenced on this board during their cruises . We did not see that lack of  help on our March Celebrity 2 cruises  .So these visa clearances in the US are not true   .Why protect any cruise line who is   understaffing ti save money ?

[kazu]

3 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

We understand  your feelings ;however ,the staff gratuities are rising all the time , in fact even higher  increase  percentages than the avg worker in the USA  .Thus ,we should know why the cruise lines keeps raising the tips  .Are they in fact paying any base pay at all  ? Are they providing just room & board ?  since the tips are the majority of  the crews income ,what is the other part ? 

 Personally ,I like the answer to that question because HAL is   understaffing their ships ,so why are they doing that ? .It impact my enjoyment as well as many others as evidenced on this board during their cruises . We did not see that lack of  help on our March Celebrity 2 cruises  .So these visa clearances in the US are not true   .Why protect any cruise line who is   understaffing ti save money ?

 

Unless you are going to sail high end ships with higher costs, you will find that is the case (gratuities, crew incentive - whatever term you wish to use) that they are added daily.  

 

All have this.  And yes the crew is paid.  Gratuities have not kept up with inflation IMO and I don’t begrudge a dime I pay.  If you do, then just go to the lines that don’t have it.  Their salary is not my business - nor yours.  I do have an idea though - you tell us your salary and we’ll talk.  The staff are entitled to the same privacy you are.

 

All ships are not understaffed - the cruise in December was overbooked.  I sailed on O in November and it was fantastic with some pretty impressive service.  I passed out a lot of extra tips on that cruise. And the cruise was pretty much full.  Personally, I think something is off with the K - whether it be management or whatever.  I’ll find out if it is a Pinnacle Class thing or the K in October this year.

[mcrcruiser]

6 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Unless you are going to sail high end ships with higher costs, you will find that is the case (gratuities, crew incentive - whatever term you wish to use) that they are added daily.  

 

All have this.  And yes the crew is paid.  Gratuities have not kept up with inflation IMO and I don’t begrudge a dime I pay.  If you do, then just go to the lines that don’t have it.  Their salary is not my business - nor yours.  I do have an idea though - you tell us your salary and we’ll talk.  The staff are entitled to the same privacy you are.

 

All ships are not understaffed - the cruise in December was overbooked.  I sailed on O in November and it was fantastic with some pretty impressive service.  I passed out a lot of extra tips on that cruise. And the cruise was pretty much full.  Personally, I think something is off with the K - whether it be management or whatever.  I’ll find out if it is a Pinnacle Class thing or the K in October this year.

When it comes to income over the years the tips have increased faster than raises in the USA in general  .Thus  , their pay has done much better than the avg American family as far as inflation is concerned .Additionally, when the crew changes US dollars into their local currencies they benefit greatly because of the strength of that dollar they get in pay

[Laminator]

15 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Unless you are going to sail high end ships with higher costs, you will find that is the case (gratuities, crew incentive - whatever term you wish to use) that they are added daily.  

 

All have this.  And yes the crew is paid.  Gratuities have not kept up with inflation IMO and I don’t begrudge a dime I pay.  If you do, then just go to the lines that don’t have it.  Their salary is not my business - nor yours.  I do have an idea though - you tell us your salary and we’ll talk.  The staff are entitled to the same privacy you are.

 

All ships are not understaffed - the cruise in December was overbooked.  I sailed on O in November and it was fantastic with some pretty impressive service.  I passed out a lot of extra tips on that cruise. And the cruise was pretty much full.  Personally, I think something is off with the K - whether it be management or whatever.  I’ll find out if it is a Pinnacle Class thing or the K in October this year.

I will be on the K Saturday and will try to report back. I will say up front that I don't really concern myself with the negatives that much as the positives have always outweighed the negatives on any HAL cruise I have been on. I also do not nitpick. 

[mcrcruiser]

10 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

I think you had better re-check your math.  The tips were the same for many years and they are in catch up mode.  50 cents here, a dollar there - no they have not been over inflation IMO.  Not when you look at all the years they weren’t increased.  

 

We’ll just agree to disagree and you can justify to your heart’s content.

 

The answer is simple - don’t want to pay - sail a higher end cruise line that costs a LOT more and no worries (although I did see a hand out sort of on one).  

 

But please do pay and don’t remove them.  I can pretty much guarantee that the crew has it’s own grapevine.  They seem to know who tips extra and who removes 😉.   

 

 

First we never remove tips 

when we started to cruise in the 90s tips we below $10  per pax per day  .I just don't recall the exact amount  

 What fits best imo is all inclusive cruising  except for alcohol  ,special restaurants & tours ,for a line like HAL ,RCL ie   .The wifi are so  so varied in strength of signals that should be included  .The top of line cruise lines can include every thing for a price 

Then it would be much easier to distinguish  what lines are better than other lines 

Edited May 17, 2023 by mcrcruiser

[mcrcruiser]

One question is why did the cruise lines  not leave the self tipping in place what it once was  like when we were cruising in the 90s & early 2000 . We had envelopes & guidelines then  . so many times we added to those amounts for specific people who went above & beyond . now we just give what is asked . 

Seems to me  standard tips  takes away incentives  ro go the extra mile .We  bever fave less than standard & more times gave more because of the special service  ,imo service was better back then than we see now 

[RuthC]

26 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

So why do we even need to deal in added tips .why not one  charge with all inclusive ?

The answer to that question has been posted on this forum numerous times. If you don't want to accept it, that is up to you. 
But you do need to stop belaboring the point. 

You don't need to like crew gratuities. Heck, for that matter you don't even need to PAY crew gratuities. 
But for what the crew does, they really should be paid, and you have no business begrudging them that. 

[RuthC]

2 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

One question is why did the cruise lines  not leave the self tipping in place what it once was  like when we were cruising in the 90s & early 2000 .

The unions negotiated a better deal. Good for them. 

2 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

We had envelopes & guidelines then  .

Not on HAL, you didn't. Until 2003 or 2004 (memory isn't what it used to be), HAL had a 'no tipping required' policy. They did give you envelopes if you went to the Front Desk and requested them, but would not give any guidance on how much, or even IF you should tip the crew. 

[kazu]

16 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

First we never remove tips 

when we started to cruise in the 90s tips we below $10  per pax per day  .I just don't recall the exact amount  

 What fits best imo is all inclusive cruising  except for alcohol  ,special restaurants & tours ,for a line like HAL ,RCL ie   .The wifi are so  so varied in strength of signals that should be included  .The top of line cruise lines can include every thing for a price 

Then it would be much easier to distinguish  what lines are better than other lines 

 

Since you are belabouring inflation - take a look - $10 in 1990 is now $23.21 - still want to complain?  https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1990?amount=10#:~:text=Value of %2410 from 1990,cumulative price increase of 132.11%.

 

I can’t recall when HAL added the tips but we always tipped well before it was added = however, the people missing on the last night spoke volumes and back then = there wasn’t a lot of specialty dining .

 

LOL on all inclusive except for everything that is all inclusive other than crew incentive.   Doesn’t do much for many of us.  Of course cruising is all about you - out of your port and how you like it.   Just go cruise on another line and stop belabouring it.  I’m done

[Laminator]

1 minute ago, kazu said:

 

Since you are belabouring inflation - take a look - $10 in 1990 is now $23.21 - still want to complain?  https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1990?amount=10#:~:text=Value of %2410 from 1990,cumulative price increase of 132.11%.

 

I can’t recall when HAL added the tips but we always tipped well before it was added = however, the people missing on the last night spoke volumes and back then = there wasn’t a lot of specialty dining .

 

LOL on all inclusive except for everything that is all inclusive other than crew incentive.   Doesn’t do much for many of us.  Of course cruising is all about you - out of your port and how you like it.   Just go cruise on another line and stop belabouring it.  I’m done

Always the voice of reason.

[USN59-79]

You are right about the tipping policy in 2003, Ruth.  I just pulled a folder on our 2003 7-day Alaska cruise on the Noordam.  The cost was about three times what a similar 7-day Alaska cruise now costs on the Westerdam, but there was no mandatory or even requested tipping.

Not sure what your union statement means.  Are you saying that the crew are members of a union?  If so, what union?

Ray

[CruiserBruce]

7 minutes ago, USN59-79 said:

You are right about the tipping policy in 2003, Ruth.  I just pulled a folder on our 2003 7-day Alaska cruise on the Noordam.  The cost was about three times what a similar 7-day Alaska cruise now costs on the Westerdam, but there was no mandatory or even requested tipping.

Not sure what your union statement means.  Are you saying that the crew are members of a union?  If so, what union?

Ray

They are members of a Seafarers union.

[BetsyS.]

Kazu- Years ago on the Veendam there was a couple next to my family's table.

We talked to them every night and they seemed nice. However, they said goodbye to us on the night before the last night. They said they would eat in the Lido on the last night. This was in the MDR and they had the same waiters on a 35 day cruise up

until the last night. The waiters were top notch. You're right - when people stiff the crew, it speaks volumes.

[Florida_gal_50]

I always find it interesting when people say people don’t ask my wage and I don’t know theirs.  I am paying part of their wage, they are paying none of mine.  That said, I’m not concerned with what they make.  I pay the auto grats plus a fair amount extra.  I don’t know anyone who has a wage that is keeping up with inflation.

 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

One question is why did the cruise lines  not leave the self tipping in place what it once was  like when we were cruising in the 90s & early 2000 . We had envelopes & guidelines then  . so many times we added to those amounts for specific people who went above & beyond . now we just give what is asked . 

Seems to me  standard tips  takes away incentives  ro go the extra mile .We  bever fave less than standard & more times gave more because of the special service  ,imo service was better back then than we see now 

I would surmise that they changed the tipping policy because of the amount of passengers who stiffed the crew. There are lots of stories of passengers who ate every night at the MDR becoming buffet diners on the last night. 😒

 

And for many of us not having to have the bills available to fill envelopes is a positive. It's much easier to auto-tip.

[AFNavigator]

31 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

And for many of us not having to have the bills available to fill envelopes is a positive. It's much easier to auto-tip.

If a person is diligent enough to keep checking, and far enough from their final payment date, it is very likely a Gratuities Included promotion will surface.  It will probably be packaged with the Have It All package but, if you plan to get that package anyway, free tips from just being diligent watching for promotions can save you hundreds of $$.

[Florida_gal_50]

59 minutes ago, AFNavigator said:

If a person is diligent enough to keep checking, and far enough from their final payment date, it is very likely a Gratuities Included promotion will surface.  It will probably be packaged with the Have It All package but, if you plan to get that package anyway, free tips from just being diligent watching for promotions can save you hundreds of $$.

I have gotten the hia on my last few cruises.  I’ve never gotten gratuities.  It’s a lot more isolated than that.  I see it with the early booking bonus right now. I constantly check my price so if it was there I would have caught it.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Florida_gal_50

[mcrcruiser]

4 hours ago, RuthC said:

The answer to that question has been posted on this forum numerous times. If you don't want to accept it, that is up to you. 
But you do need to stop belaboring the point. 

You don't need to like crew gratuities. Heck, for that matter you don't even need to PAY crew gratuities. 
But for what the crew does, they really should be paid, and you have no business begrudging them that. 

Where did you get the idea we begrudge giving  gratuities ? This statement is typical of attacks  on people who don't agree with  the  Holland america royalty on this thread   what I wanted to know is what kind of compensation does the cruise line  pay their employees on ships .what so terrible about that . 

 Perhaps the tips that are pooled the cruise line takes a   percentage .Id that  possible ?  since HAL os understaffing  then could they be doing other things that are not as   obvious .when you are talking the dollar numbers that the t tips represent any thing  is possible  . 

 Has any one on this thread counted the cut backs that HAL has made or just dismiss what once was included . you for one talked about the good ole  days & what is no longer . So what  guarantees are there that the crew gets all the dollars ?