Just how much of a problem ARE interlopers in the YC?

[sidari]

If you are not a member of any given club and just wander in you will be shown the door fairly rapid, the same should be true for the YC. YC prices are way up there and I would not be happy having paid over inflated prices for people to just wander in at will, little point having a private area for those who have paid the Premium prices to be there if MSC are just allowing people to wander in, same applies to  Aurea Top 19, if you want to be in those areas then pay for it.

[Two Wheels Only]

3 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

Pretty sure that will result in a riot down in the buffet as the supply runs out... 🙂

 

That's no different than any other riot in the buffet. 😁

[RichYak]

@jean87510 I guess we're not doing T-shirts 😂

[jean87510]

20 minutes ago, RichYak said:

@jean87510 I guess we're not doing T-shirts 😂

Apparently not!!  😁  (I'll still do one anyway but won't post what it is...😉)

 

Fyi - I was laughing when I noticed.

[actuarian]

According to a travel agent, "MSC Yacht Club services are provided complimentary to all [Explora] OCEAN RESIDENCES and OCEAN PENTHOUSES.".  That should include Ocean House and it seems more likely since there are only 23 Residences but the total of Residences and Penthouses is 90. Ocean House is able to accommodate all Yacht Club members on a ship like the Seashore, which has 131 suites in the Yacht Club.  Therefore, it would seem silly to limit it to the 23 Residences, as another person said in this thread.

Edited June 25, 2023 by actuarian

[morpheusofthesea]

8 minutes ago, actuarian said:

According to a travel agent, "MSC Yacht Club services are provided complimentary to all [Explora] OCEAN RESIDENCES and OCEAN PENTHOUSES.".  That should include Ocean House and it seems more likely since there are only 23 Residences but the total of Residences and Penthouses is 90. Ocean House is able to accommodate all Yacht Club members on a ship like the Seashore, which has 131 suites in the Yacht Club.  Therefore, it would seem silly to limit it to the 23 Residences, as another person said in this thread.

What I posted was on Explora Journeys Latest News about Exlplora 1. It was originally a question posed to a travel agent that hosts an Explora FB page. Being that she is a host of a prominent Explora group she was told this latest 'thoughts' by Explora Journeys that Ocean House will be limited to only Residences.

   

I wrote this about one of our latest outings on Seascape Yacht Club.

   We recommend everyone try to have lunch at Ocean House, before it rains. It can get very crowded with only enough tables for 168 guests at one time if everyone shared a table. Lately the Yacht Club has been running full with 330 official paying guests. Then there are those with "ACCESS"; we had 44 of these friends and family of officers. And then those with friends and family of Yacht Club residing outside the YC. So it can get rather 'messy'. One might have to eat , bending over on their beach lounger, or wait for some fellow YCer to give up their table. Once it was cold and it poured. Everyone present tried to find standing space huddled inside Ocean House which only has 3 tables and the bar. Getting back to the ship waiting for one 7 passenger trolley, had the YC director commandeer a larger island trolley. It still took time to get back to the ship with not enough trolleys., at that time.

  So having 1(OS) x3, 10 (Cove) x 4, 6 (Retreats) x 4, 4(Serenity) x4, and 2 (Cocoon) x 4  = 91 maximum capacity. Add to this maybe those in the lower suites that have "ACCESS" (friends and family of officers), and perhaps friends and family residing outside the Residences traveling with those in the Residences (just like in the Yacht Club now that intimidate their way in) this would allow just this number to enjoy lunch on the veranda of Ocean House. There are 17 tables  on the veranda, 3 inside. So 20 tables without having to 'share', equals perhaps 40 guests. So limiting Ocean House to just the Residences is a smart move. It is much more enjoyable not having to fight/ wait for a table. Am sure those in the 14 available pergolas would also like to enjoy lunch seated on the veranda as well.

[jean87510]

26 minutes ago, morpheusofthesea said:

What I posted was on Explora Journeys Latest News about Exlplora 1. It was originally a question posed to a travel agent that hosts an Explora FB page. Being that she is a host of a prominent Explora group she was told this latest 'thoughts' by Explora Journeys that Ocean House will be limited to only Residences.

   

I wrote this about one of our latest outings on Seascape Yacht Club.

   We recommend everyone try to have lunch at Ocean House, before it rains. It can get very crowded with only enough tables for 168 guests at one time if everyone shared a table. Lately the Yacht Club has been running full with 330 official paying guests. Then there are those with "ACCESS"; we had 44 of these friends and family of officers. And then those with friends and family of Yacht Club residing outside the YC. So it can get rather 'messy'. One might have to eat , bending over on their beach lounger, or wait for some fellow YCer to give up their table. Once it was cold and it poured. Everyone present tried to find standing space huddled inside Ocean House which only has 3 tables and the bar. Getting back to the ship waiting for one 7 passenger trolley, had the YC director commandeer a larger island trolley. It still took time to get back to the ship with not enough trolleys., at that time.

  So having 1(OS) x3, 10 (Cove) x 4, 6 (Retreats) x 4, 4(Serenity) x4, and 2 (Cocoon) x 4  = 91 maximum capacity. Add to this maybe those in the lower suites that have "ACCESS" (friends and family of officers), and perhaps friends and family residing outside the Residences traveling with those in the Residences (just like in the Yacht Club now that intimidate their way in) this would allow just this number to enjoy lunch on the veranda of Ocean House. There are 17 tables  on the veranda, 3 inside. So 20 tables without having to 'share', equals perhaps 40 guests. So limiting Ocean House to just the Residences is a smart move. It is much more enjoyable not having to fight/ wait for a table. Am sure those in the 14 available pergolas would also like to enjoy lunch seated on the veranda as well.

I haven't been to Ocean Cay let alone yacht club area.  Is it possible they can put in seating such as picnic tables outside the restaurant to prevent hunching over a plate straddling the lounge chairs?  Understand rain possibility as well.

[morpheusofthesea]

18 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

I haven't been to Ocean Cay let alone yacht club area.  Is it possible they can put in seating such as picnic tables outside the restaurant to prevent hunching over a plate straddling the lounge chairs?  Understand rain possibility as well.

There are 25 tables on the lawn surrounding the veranda. Plastic.

[Best Cat Mom]

Perhaps they will be changing the OC YC restaurant to be more like the YC restaurant on the ship? Adding a second seating and expanding the hours could help when YC passenger volume requires more than current capacity.

[Georgia_Peaches]

I guess im just not understanding. So when Explora Journeys is at the private island, only those in certain categories can go to Ocean House?

Does this impact YC on other ships, like say Seaside, in any way?

[morpheusofthesea]

1 minute ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

I guess im just not understanding. So when Explora Journeys is at the private island, only those in certain categories can go to Ocean House?

Does this impact YC on other ships, like say Seaside, in any way?

Yes to first. No to second.

[Georgia_Peaches]

Just now, morpheusofthesea said:

Yes to first. No to second.

Thank you!  So why would I pay triple the cost of YC to go on EJ when I don’t have the same access that I would on a regular ship in the YC?

[morpheusofthesea]

3 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Thank you!  So why would I pay triple the cost of YC to go on EJ when I don’t have the same access that I would on a regular ship in the YC?

We are all asking the same question.  It could be just for the food and space ratio.

  

We are as concerned as you are about these reports. 

Here is another potential problem exacerbating the crowded situation on cruise ships. Been reading social media from those traveling in the Yacht Club on World Europa, sister ship to the new World America. It appears that the YC venues are the same square footage while the number of guests will be doubled. Perhaps we should just 'suck it up' and enjoy the "Sea".....ships because the worst is yet to come.

In addition, I have read on another cruise site the importance of a ship's 'space ratio'. Over all, not YC portion, the space ratio of the World America is 34.2. Less than 33 means crowded in areas. Greater than (>) 39 means plenty of space for each passenger. When a ship is not sailing at capacity the space ratio can be as good as 41. These details are very difficult to ascertain before one books a ship and date well in advance. We just have to go with more postings like these.

  However the space ratio is determined by taking the gross tonnage of a vessel divided by passenger capacity. World America's gross tonnage is 215,863 / 6762 passengers = 31.92 space ratio. Supposed to be 34.2 as stated above. We will just have to see.....

   Just to put it in perspective. MSC Explora 1  gross tonnage 63,900/922 passengers = 69.3 space ratio  (more room to dance).

Edited June 26, 2023 by morpheusofthesea

[kelleherdl]

10 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Thank you!  So why would I pay triple the cost of YC to go on EJ when I don’t have the same access that I would on a regular ship in the YC?

I understand hyperbole is an effective rhetorical tool, but let’s be a little more reasonable. I have 3 EJ cruises during the inaugural seasons for Explora 1 and Explora II, all unique itineraries. The $ per person per day, double occupancy, are 403 (15 days) 555 (18 days), and 376 (17 days). All cabins are Ocean Terrace 1 or 3, so not upper class, but still larger staterooms that Deluxe Balcony Yacht Club. The current fare for the 15 day World America inaugural Caribbean East/West run-of-the-mill Caribbean cruise is a Deluxe YC Balcony is $406 per person per day.

 

So prices are very comparable, and not anything close to 25 or 30 % premium, much less triple the cost.

Edited June 26, 2023 by kelleherdl

[Georgia_Peaches]

50 minutes ago, kelleherdl said:

I understand hyperbole is an effective rhetorical tool, but let’s be a little more reasonable. I have 3 EJ cruises during the inaugural seasons for Explora 1 and Explora II, all unique itineraries. The $ per person per day, double occupancy, are 403 (15 days) 555 (18 days), and 376 (17 days). All cabins are Ocean Terrace 1 or 3, so not upper class, but still larger staterooms that Deluxe Balcony Yacht Club. The current fare for the 15 day World America inaugural Caribbean East/West run-of-the-mill Caribbean cruise is a Deluxe YC Balcony is $406 per person per day.

 

So prices are very comparable, and not anything close to 25 or 30 % premium, much less triple the cost.

You know what, I will be the first to admit when I am wrong and I certainly don't mind being called out by others if I've made a gross error but I want to go on record that I rarely, if ever use hyperbole when discussing money matters on CC.  In fact, I go out of my way to give a cost break down in all of my reviews because the financials give others a glimpse of what they can expect to pay should they opt to do something similar to what I am reporting.  

 

Having said all that, when I did a few mock bookings for whichever Explora ship will be deployed to Alaska, I can't remember but I think it was Explora II, the rate for a 7 night cruise was significantly higher than what I would pay in a similar suite category with the same perks on a Celebrity ship doing the same itinerary.  I know it's not apples to apples because MSC doesn't have any ships in AK but at the time my interest was in booking for Alaska, so that's what I compared.

 

I have no interest in booking EJ for the Caribbean so I didn't compare their prices (which I agree are comparable to MSC) to that of other MSC ships sailing in the same region.  You can perhaps call me out for assuming that rates across the EJ line would be similar to what I saw for Alaska...and the fact is, I did assume. We all know what they say about assuming...😏, but that was my thought process when making my remark.

 

Sorry, didn't really mean to rant but your hyperbole comment struck a cord...I think I'll add a shot of Bailey's to my coffee now 😊.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Georgia_Peaches
typo

[actuarian]

12 hours ago, morpheusofthesea said:

In addition, I have read on another cruise site the importance of a ship's 'space ratio'. Over all, not YC portion, the space ratio of the World America is 34.2. Less than 33 means crowded in areas. Greater than (>) 39 means plenty of space for each passenger. When a ship is not sailing at capacity the space ratio can be as good as 41. These details are very difficult to ascertain before one books a ship and date well in advance. We just have to go with more postings like these.

  However the space ratio is determined by taking the gross tonnage of a vessel divided by passenger capacity. World America's gross tonnage is 215,863 / 6762 passengers = 31.92 space ratio. Supposed to be 34.2 as stated above. We will just have to see.....

   Just to put it in perspective. MSC Explora 1  gross tonnage 63,900/922 passengers = 69.3 space ratio  (more room to dance).

The "overall space ratio" does not seem very important when one is in the Yacht Club. The Yacht Club is a "ship within a ship" and should have its own space ratio. Since the Yacht Club is not literally a ship, its space ratio cannot be calculated directly but it can be estimated. For example, the gross tonnage of the Seachore is 169,400. The Seashore carries a maximum of 5,448 passengers so its minimum space ratio is 31.09. That is certainlyk crowded. However, about 12% of the space on the Seashore that is either public or made up of passenger staterooms is for Yacht Club members only. That means that we could define the "Yacht Club Tonnage" as being 12% of 169,400 or 20,328. In theory, the Seashore Yacht Club could carry a maximum of 595 passengers but that will never happen since I have never seen anyone cram 5 people into a Yacht Club Deluxe Suite. It the Yacht Club really carried 595 passengers, that would give it a space ratio of 34.16. As a practical matter, the Yacht Club almost never carries more than 300 passengers so the real space ratio that one is likely to experience there is around 68 so it is very comparable to the space ratio on the Explora.

 

The choice between the MSC Yacht Club or the Explora is mostly one of personal preference. Would you rather be in a small luxury ship with limited facilities but the ability to go to places that a megaship cannot reach, or would you prefer to be in a luxury enclave within a megaship and have access to all the entertainment and other facilities of the megaship. My preference is the latter.

Edited June 26, 2023 by actuarian

[morpheusofthesea]

50 minutes ago, actuarian said:

. It the Yacht Club really carried 595 passengers, that would give it a space ratio of 34.16. As a practical matter, the Yacht Club almost never carries more than 300 passengers so the real space ratio that one is likely to experience there is around 68 so it is very comparable to the space ratio on the Explora.

'The proof will be in the pudding' .The problem arises when their are 44 friends and family not residing in a YC suite in line at the one seafood extravaganza and nowhere to sit as other friends and family of YC guests in cabins outside the YC are smuggled in with a blind eye from staff not wanting to antagonize the bigger tippers in this YC group for allowing the interlopers. Then the space ratios are thrown out the window, as one turns away in disappointment. Let us not forget regular interlopers with no friends and family in the YC who manage to get into the YC venue and must be bribed by management to leave.

 Oh. yes. There were 330 on our cruise, official, paying types.

Edited June 26, 2023 by morpheusofthesea

[kelleherdl]

1 hour ago, actuarian said:

 

The choice between the MSC Yacht Club or the Explora is mostly one of personal preference. Would you rather be in a small luxury ship with limited facilities but the ability to go to places that a megaship cannot reach, or would you prefer to be in a luxury enclave within a megaship and have access to all the entertainment and other facilities of the megaship. My preference is the latter.

And it’s not necessarily an either/or for us.  We have 4 additional bookings in MSC Yacht Club along with the Explora Journey 3; including one of the World America inaugurals. I am not trying to be boastful, just saying one can choose to have either or both with preferences depending on other considerations. When we feel like a 5-day short getaway it’s obviously MSC YC so we can enjoy the big-ship amenities out of Port Canaveral, short 45-minute drive. If it’s a family or group cruise, MSC YC wins again. 

[Brighton Line]

On my sailing of Meraviglia, the YC Director said the YC was "sold out" at 211 guests. On the first night at dinner, some people were asked to come back and even select a time for the week. This was mentioned by two other couples I met during the cruise as I had missed the first-night YC Dining room as we did the Teppanyaki restaurant.

At times the lounge did appear full especially waiting for the ship to clear at ports and the pool deck was pressed for table space at one or two breakfasts after the dining room had closed. 
I don't know if this is normal for a non-sold-out YC. 

The only other issue we experienced was a full YC seating area in the TV Lounge for two comics they had. The second comedian they actually set up in the lounge that has the paid shows when that night it was scheduled to be dark.

 

I did not notice interlopers in the crowd with the exception of the Lighthouse show at the private island when a huge group came up the outside stairs and gained entry due to the very slow closing door/gate which is easily defeated. I actually saw the ship crew (not hotel) reach around the lock guard to open the gate to gain access to the deck, they were painting the bulkhead near the buffet.

 

That said, I had a fantastic time and already booked 2nd YC.

 

[actuarian]

1 hour ago, morpheusofthesea said:

'The proof will be in the pudding' .The problem arises when their are 44 friends and family not residing in a YC suite in line at the one seafood extravaganza and nowhere to sit as other friends and family of YC guests in cabins outside the YC are smuggled in with a blind eye from staff not wanting to antagonize the bigger tippers in this YC group for allowing the interlopers. Then the space ratios are thrown out the window, as one turns away in disappointment. Let us not forget regular interlopers with no friends and family in the YC who manage to get into the YC venue and must be bribed by management to leave.

 Oh. yes. There were 330 on our cruise, official, paying types.

Even with 330, the Seascape Yacht Club will not be crowded. I have not been in the Yacht Club on the Seascape but I have been in the Seashore Yacht Club and those two ships are almost exactly the same. Therefore, the real issue is the interlopers (and the people with "ACCESS") and it is the responsibility of the crew to deal with them. They can be dealt with.  I have not seen interlopers in Retreat areas on Celebrity ships because the Celebrity crew keeps them out. What Celebrity can do, MSC can do too. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has access on Celebrity. There are people with access on Royal Caribbean and the suite lounges and restaurants on Royal are often crowded. I have never cruised on NCL but perhaps someone else can comment on the crowding or the lack of it in the Haven.

[Fogfog]

It can be an issue - sadly-- and butlers/security will remove them.

Really it is terrible that people who don't pay for YC sneak in and basically "steal" space, food, drinks, service. Disgusting lack of character

Best thing to do is be sure door closes behind you coming/going

I report them when I see them.

On one sailing there was a group of 6 that snuck in for lunch--and security promptly removed them

On a sailing before ours-- a group damaged an electronic lock/door trying to get to the One Pool deck. It was widely reported here on CC.

We've reported interlopers (as do other YC pax) at the YC Ocean Cay beach-- they try to sneak in... and staff removes them

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Fogfog

[xcell]

Kicking them out doesn't do much ....   There's has to be a penalty... monetary, for the interlopers and those who aid them.  Charge them a large fee and maybe they won't do it again...

[NCteacherlovescruising]

If we’ve had any on our cruise we haven’t noticed. 

[morpheusofthesea]

On 6/24/2023 at 10:29 AM, sidari said:

I would not be happy having paid over inflated prices for people to just wander in at will,

Just came across this post on FB.

 

"Asking for future MSC Cruises:

Can someone explain how do the upgrades and bid offers work? I received an e-mail about it, but did not open to bid on any.

Also, what is considered Aurea?

And is the Yacht Club expensive? We noticed it was a private section at the front of the ship, which we did sneak in and quietly walked around and visited"

 

At least they were quiet.

Edited June 30, 2023 by morpheusofthesea

[morpheusofthesea]

5 hours ago, NCteacherlovescruising said:

If we’ve had any on our cruise we haven’t noticed. 

That's because they are quiet about it.