Eliminating Butlers - Spoke to Celebrity. Here is conversation.

[terrydtx]

25 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I'm not sure that most would agree here that the Luminae experience, service and food generally have gone downhill.  We had a wonderful (the usual) experience on our last Equinox sailing earlier this year.  And we have dined in Luminae across many ships and did not notice much difference this year.  Most of the downhill discussion here has focused on the MDR.

 We sailed in Retreat in June on Equinox and Apex in September. I did not notice much difference between the 2 Luminae's other than the noise on Apex was much higher. I will say we did not feel that the Luminae on both ships' food quality was not quite as good as in 2022 on the Reflection and Equinox. Service this year was just as good as any previous Retreat experience.

Edited December 20, 2023 by terrydtx

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, RichYak said:

My personal experience this year would differ with your assessment. For me there was a drop off in service (for sure) and in food quality (somewhat) between Luminae in March on Millennium and Luminae in August on Summit. Admittedly that's a small sample size, but that's all I have.

Sorry to hear that but I was just trying to make a general statement - maybe a bad one? - based on comments here and my experience.  There will be differences depending on ship, crew, etc.  And personal experiences one way or the other.  But it seems overall the Luminae products has been good for a lot of posters.

[RichYak]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Sorry to hear that but I was just trying to make a general statement - maybe a bad one? - based on comments here and my experience.  There will be differences depending on ship, crew, etc.  And personal experiences one way or the other.  But it seems overall the Luminae products has been good for a lot of posters.

My sailing could definitely have been an outlier. We had issues that needed to be addressed all over the ship, not just Luminae. It was uncanny. I can't recall any issue that I needed to have addressed on any other Celebrity cruise.

[Baynanno1]

Our experience on Solstice in October this year was not as good as our experience on Eclipse in December 2022 in several areas, but it did improve in some areas during the course of the cruise.

 

And before anyone jumps in and says we should have brought things to the attention of management - we did - hence the improvement in some areas.

[samofam]

November 2023 SS on Silhouette. Celebrating our 45th anniversary. We treat ourselves to a suite every couple of sailings. We are Zenith so the main reason for us to splurge on a suite is for the extra luxury of having a butler. When we asked the room attendant to send the butler, that is when we were told there is now a 'team'. Really???  But apparently the 'team' is not available to help us unpack. 

Can not deliver specially prepared hot coffee when we call in the morning.  The 'team' is not available to set the balcony table with a tablecloth etc.  for our lunch.  

No email or communication of any kind before this cruise. The room was looking shabby, the 'team' refused to provide a safety mat for the tub which was quite slippery. Our refrigerator was never restocked with our water choice, just regular cans left on the dresser.

We have one more suite booked which is too late to cancel without financial loss.

This will be our last suite booking on Celebrity if corrections are not made by the time we set sail.

I have heard great reports about the Haven suites on the NCL Viva and Prima so with no reason to stay with Celebrity suites we will be checking alternative cruise lines.

In addition, yes we did request compensation but were told Celebrity will not be doing that as they now have a 'team'.  Apparently they are protected in their contract but our extra few thousands $$$ for a 'non' suite experience is not!

It is just so disappointing for the company to drop their standard. We've done more than 50 cruises with Celebrity to many different countries and continents with very few problems and great pleasure and satisfaction.  Also, we have a large extended family who have also enjoyed Celebrity and booked suites on our recommendation. No more recommendations.

BTW I did email LHB at the executive offices and my email got handed off to an office worker. She was very nice but of course of no help.

[darren42]

On November 11, 2023 we ended our B2B2B2B2B, 5 legs, on the Beyond in 5 different Sky Suites, 52 days. We started in Rome and ended in Fort Lauderdale. I Read all the comments/complaints before we boarded the ship and I must say, huh? What problems?

 

We had 2 different head butlers that brought coffee on request. Room service was prompt and accurate. We never moved our stuff from room to room, they did. We had fresh fruit on demand. Beers were delivered to the room for me to put in the fridge. The sunset sky suite is very far from the retreat lounge so the coffee that week was unusually cooler than I like it. The Magic Carpet Sky Suite veranda is larger than the others, but the bathroom doesn't look into the ocean. Luminae was perfect, Blu was great, and we avoided the 4 MDR's. Luminae staff was suggesting new items not on the menu after day 23 because the menu does repeat and 52 days is a lot. 

 

This thread had us concerned for this trip. Nothing I read here is true in our case. We had a fantastic trip and will do it again Jan 3 to 27 on the Solstice. Same Sky Suite for 24 days so one butler. Maybe different this time. Hope not. 

[terrydtx]

On 12/20/2023 at 2:55 PM, samofam said:

November 2023 SS on Silhouette. Celebrating our 45th anniversary. We treat ourselves to a suite every couple of sailings. We are Zenith so the main reason for us to splurge on a suite is for the extra luxury of having a butler. When we asked the room attendant to send the butler, that is when we were told there is now a 'team'. Really???  But apparently the 'team' is not available to help us unpack. 

Can not deliver specially prepared hot coffee when we call in the morning.  The 'team' is not available to set the balcony table with a tablecloth etc.  for our lunch.  

No email or communication of any kind before this cruise. The room was looking shabby, the 'team' refused to provide a safety mat for the tub which was quite slippery. Our refrigerator was never restocked with our water choice, just regular cans left on the dresser.

We have one more suite booked which is too late to cancel without financial loss.

This will be our last suite booking on Celebrity if corrections are not made by the time we set sail.

I have heard great reports about the Haven suites on the NCL Viva and Prima so with no reason to stay with Celebrity suites we will be checking alternative cruise lines.

In addition, yes we did request compensation but were told Celebrity will not be doing that as they now have a 'team'.  Apparently they are protected in their contract but our extra few thousands $$$ for a 'non' suite experience is not!

It is just so disappointing for the company to drop their standard. We've done more than 50 cruises with Celebrity to many different countries and continents with very few problems and great pleasure and satisfaction.  Also, we have a large extended family who have also enjoyed Celebrity and booked suites on our recommendation. No more recommendations.

BTW I did email LHB at the executive offices and my email got handed off to an office worker. She was very nice but of course of no help.

Your butler experiences are identical to ours on the Apex in September. Nothing like we had in 4 prior SS Retreat cruises with a dedicated butler. We will not be sailing again with Celebrity after our B2B Edge cruises next month and we will be only a few points from Elite+.  Loyalty means nothing to Celebrity anymore so we will no longer be loyal to them. This no butler issue after we booked and knowing we would have one was bad enough, but no longer providing suites with pre-paid tips and generous OBC , and then keeping prices 40% higher than a year ago were the final straws for us. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by terrydtx

[Dolebludger]

Comparing posts 556 and 557, it appears that there is no consistency on ships and cruises for SS service (butler replacement) on Celebrity. I may be a bit off, but when a poster reports a good experience and another reports a bad experience,I believe them both. Celebrity is a rather large line with a good number of ships. I see no evidence of proper management among the ships and itineraries. As to “Retreat Hosts” and their duties, it appears that they have no job descriptions and nobody to enforce performance thereof. I think this may be the cause of “service problems” in the Retreat. Of course, with fares running above lux lines, it matters little to me now, as I am booking elsewhere due to price alone.

[abbydancer2003]

34 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

Comparing posts 556 and 557, it appears that there is no consistency on ships and cruises for SS service (butler replacement) on Celebrity. I may be a bit off, but when a poster reports a good experience and another reports a bad experience,I believe them both. Celebrity is a rather large line with a good number of ships. I see no evidence of proper management among the ships and itineraries. As to “Retreat Hosts” and their duties, it appears that they have no job descriptions and nobody to enforce performance thereof. I think this may be the cause of “service problems” in the Retreat. Of course, with fares running above lux lines, it matters little to me now, as I am booking elsewhere due to price alone.

I agree with this, although the experience might also depend on what your expectation and previous experience was.  All we really used the butler for was laundry and morning coffee, so we were reasonably happy with our experience.  One day, when I wanted a latte midafternoon, I just went down to Al Baccio and got it, but that's pretty much what I always did.  And I thought about testing the system for afternoon snacks, but to be honest, I rarely ate them when they were there, so I never tried to get them.

[phoenix_dream]

22 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

Comparing posts 556 and 557, it appears that there is no consistency on ships and cruises for SS service (butler replacement) on Celebrity. I may be a bit off, but when a poster reports a good experience and another reports a bad experience,I believe them both. Celebrity is a rather large line with a good number of ships. I see no evidence of proper management among the ships and itineraries. As to “Retreat Hosts” and their duties, it appears that they have no job descriptions and nobody to enforce performance thereof. I think this may be the cause of “service problems” in the Retreat. Of course, with fares running above lux lines, it matters little to me now, as I am booking elsewhere due to price alone.

I agree.  Too often people who report a bad experience are referred to as complainers or people who are never satisfied.  At the same time, people who report good experiences are often reviled as cheerleaders.  Frankly, I've been accused as both!  I report my comments based on my personal experience - good, bad, or indifferent.  People can give them as much credence as they care to.

[39august]

The so called "Retreat Host" is a cabin steward, nothing else. They are employed by and report to Housekeeping, not the Retreat. We met our steward's Housekeeping supervisor by chance on last cruise or I would not have known this.  We actually spoke with him more than once, so it is very clear the "Retreat Host" is a cabin steward, and not  member of the so called "Retreat team".  Ours couldn't possibly have done anything our butlers used to do. He was a fine cabin steward but was literally RUNNING every time we saw him. So overworked. 

[phoenix_dream]

23 hours ago, 39august said:

The so called "Retreat Host" is a cabin steward, nothing else. They are employed by and report to Housekeeping, not the Retreat. We met our steward's Housekeeping supervisor by chance on last cruise or I would not have known this.  We actually spoke with him more than once, so it is very clear the "Retreat Host" is a cabin steward, and not  member of the so called "Retreat team".  Ours couldn't possibly have done anything our butlers used to do. He was a fine cabin steward but was literally RUNNING every time we saw him. So overworked. 

Makes you wonder, doesn't it, how long they will be able to keep some of these folks hired.  So very much of the workload was just dumped on them, and they had too much to do to begin with.  I remember years ago they had assistants to help them.  Granted they had more cabins then, but not twice as many cabins.  I predict a potential staffing issue in the future for these positions as there are so many other cruise lines to choose from.  I guess time will tell.

[chemmo]

8 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

Makes you wonder, doesn't it, how long they will be able to keep some of these folks hired.  So very much of the workload was just dumped on them, and they had too much to do to begin with.  I remember years ago they had assistants to help them.  Granted they had more cabins then, but not twice as many cabins.  I predict a potential staffing issue in the future for these positions as there are so many other cruise lines to choose from.  I guess time will tell.

When I found out SS butlers had gone and no real announcement was made I really worried about these folks who would be filling a void with no additional training or resources and possibly many disgruntled guests boarding who were not aware of the changes…

 

I wonder if they receive any of the butler portion of the tips which SS guests pay? I sincerely hope they do.

 

It also seems like some promotional steps may have gone too. No assistant room attendant as a starting point and very few butler posts to aspire to…

[Oceangoer2]

Our last cruise we were in a concierge cabin on the hump.  Our attendant left a personal card in the room with his name and title of 'Retreat Host'.  We weren't in a Retreat cabin so during the cruise I asked him how many cabins he had...answer....10 which included the suite cabins on the flat side of the 'hump'.  He was taking care of all the other cabins not Retreat so that explained the 'card' title.  Wouldn't surprise me if he was unable to respond as butlers did in the past to suite passenger requests.  Have to say....this was the best steward we ever had in many X cruises (Elite+), which included suite cabins....we were very happy with him and hopefully he was very happy with the extra gratuity from us at the end of our cruise.  He very much deserved the title Retreat Host, and I hope he was paid accordingly.  Yes, I'm sure they're overworked.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Oceangoer2

[Veinless]

16 hours ago, chemmo said:

I wonder if they receive any of the butler portion of the tips which SS guests pay? I sincerely hope they do.

 

Since tips are no longer included, I just tell Celebrity that the Suite Tips Team will cover the gratuities cost, and remove them from my bill. Fair is fair.

[CruiseRQA]

1 hour ago, Veinless said:

 

Since tips are no longer included, I just tell Celebrity that the Suite Tips Team will cover the gratuities cost, and remove them from my bill. Fair is fair.

Hopefully you are being sarcastic.

 

Removing tips may seem fair to you but the person that hurts in your rebellion against the man is the poor cabin steward and wait staff. 

[CHEZMARYLOU]

32 minutes ago, CruiseRQA said:

Hopefully you are being sarcastic.

 

Removing tips may seem fair to you but the person that hurts in your rebellion against the man is the poor cabin steward and wait staff. 

I don't advocate removing tips but cruisers in a Sky Suite pay the same daily rate as someone in the Iconic Suite but no longer have a butler.  Celebrity needs to adjust the amount of tips for SS closer to Aqua class because that is the level of service SS guests are receiving.

[terrydtx]

2 hours ago, Veinless said:

 

Since tips are no longer included, I just tell Celebrity that the Suite Tips Team will cover the gratuities cost, and remove them from my bill. Fair is fair.

If you booked a suite before Oct 3rd your tips are included and can't be removed, since they are part of the Retreat AI. I was in the Retreat Lounge on the Apex in September and heard one suite guest arguing with the Retreat Host because he was told the included tips for booking a suite (at that time) could not be removed and given back to the guest as OBC. He got very irate reiterating that where he lived tipping was not required anywhere. 

 

Why would you want to remove them anyway, that just shortchanges everyone on your cruise providing you a great service.  I hope you were just being sarcastic with your comment.

Edited December 28, 2023 by terrydtx

[Veinless]

59 minutes ago, CruiseRQA said:

Hopefully you are being sarcastic.

 

Removing tips may seem fair to you but the person that hurts in your rebellion against the man is the poor cabin steward and wait staff. 

 

17 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

If you booked a suite before Oct 3rd your tips are included and can't be removed, since they are part of the Retreat AI. I was in the Retreat Lounge on the Apex in September and heard one suite guest arguing with the Retreat Host because he was told the included tips for booking a suite (at that time) could not be removed and given back to the guest as OBC. He got very irate reiterating that where he lived tipping was not required anywhere. 

 

Why would you want to remove them anyway, that just shortchanges everyone on your cruise providing you a great service.  I hope you were just being sarcastic with your comment.

 

No I am sincere. Staff can choose to work for a better cruise line. In the interim, to improve service, the Suite Tips Team will cover gratuities.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Veinless

[desertr0se]

On 7/29/2023 at 1:52 PM, agape01 said:

Do any of you guys feel that the term Butler might be too British and old school that they have decided to place everyone serving Retreat Suites be now known as "Dedicated Retreat Team"?

Having said that, no matter what the reason they are doing this, IT DOES CHEAPEN THE PRODUCT.

We sailed on the Beyond transatlantic in November 2023.  We were in a suite and had access to the Retreat.  We never saw a butler but the retreat team in the Retreat Lounge was very helpful. 

[CruiseRQA]

1 hour ago, CHEZMARYLOU said:

 Celebrity needs to adjust the amount of tips for SS closer to Aqua class because that is the level of service SS guests are receiving.

You can adjust the tips up or down as you see fit.  

[phoenix_dream]

11 hours ago, Veinless said:

 

Since tips are no longer included, I just tell Celebrity that the Suite Tips Team will cover the gratuities cost, and remove them from my bill. Fair is fair.

What in the world is the Suite Tips Team??

[Veinless]

That would be all of the other suite customers that are still paying tips. The staff will still get tips, just not the dedicated tips from me.

[trippe1075]

On 8/8/2023 at 11:39 PM, smichael2646 said:

At first I was a little upset with this change but as my husband reminded me, “It’s one less person we have to tip”.  Even though tips are included we always tip beyond that, and we really don’t use the Butler that often.  Every time we have sailed on Celebrity our Cabin Stewart has gone above and beyond for us.  From my understanding is that you can call if there is something you would like done that would fall under the butler.  I am more upset that they cancelled my cruise on the Reflection that was going to Key West and am now going to CoCoCay which if you aren’t a beach person is the biggest rip off.  I stopped cruising with Royal because the ships were crowded, rules were not being enforced and they would nickel and dime you for everything while taking more and more away.  I hope Celebrity isn’t headed in the same direction.   I remember when the Royal Suite had a fully stocked bar, and the Junior Suite was a suite, you would earn “bucks” for participating in certain programs that you could hand in for a t-shirt or other gifts.  Miss the days when Royal’s service was that of Celebrity’s,  such as on the Song of America.  Sorry about the rant, just love Celebrity and am so scared it’s headed in the same direction as Royal.

I agree with the butler not being needed during the cruise but it is my understanding that the tips are no longer included in SS prices. With that being said, I feel X has downgraded service but hasn't reduced the price. SS are becoming a very high priced luxury that falls short of the benefits. 

[terrydtx]

1 hour ago, trippe1075 said:

I agree with the butler not being needed during the cruise but it is my understanding that the tips are no longer included in SS prices. With that being said, I feel X has downgraded service but hasn't reduced the price. SS are becoming a very high priced luxury that falls short of the benefits. 

Not only are gratuities no longer included in Suites, but they no longer get any of the OBC for booking. This went into effect on all cruises booked after Oct 3rd this year, but prices for suites didn't go down to reflect the cost of tips and OBC. For our Edge SS next month that would have been a total of $1352 in lost benefits ($552 tips + $800 OBC), had we not booked before Oct 3rd.